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Thread: That ping thread

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    Senior Member Arachnophobik's Avatar
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    Default That ping thread

    So a week ago or so before forums went down, I posted a lengthy thread about Ping and how it affects you, but unfortunately, the forums went down and has restored a backup of a previous state in which the thread is now lost as if it never existed (layman's terms: Cinco used a time machine to travel to the past to save the forums)

    I neither have the patience nor brain cells to remember what I said (5am deep marsh sessions starting to take its toll) so here's an entirely new remake. Take whatever info you may get from this as you will.



    Test:
    Note: Both videos are taken at the same time
    Description: To show positional delay caused by ping difference. To make it clearer, we will look at it as Horn shield wears out for both players (We'll discuss why this may not be accurate later)
    Phobik's Location: Philippines
    Dagor's Location: NotPhilippines


    As you may have noticed, there is a big delay on my end. Dagor stopped 2 seconds after he saw me stop and on my end, he stopped 4 seconds after I did. That means that there are 2 seconds of delay in between. A significant difference despite an average difference of over 100 ping.

    Ben Dover: "So I am confusion >.< Whose video is accurate and how did you think it was you?"

    Phobik, The Last Backbender: "Easy. Dagor's video was more accurate simply because of the ping difference. Ping is a measurement of how fast your device can send and receive data from the server, he merely received the information from the server faster than I did, he would've never stopped running until he retrieved the information that I've already stopped, my end was merely playing a playback of the routes and actions he took as I was retrieving all those information on a much later time (more on that later). How does that explain me being ahead of him on my video? That's because the player location you see on your screen is local to your device, at least, to a certain extent."

    Arguments to prove this?




    You can move around the map during a ping spike but it wouldn't reflect on others' screens.


    (Yellow ping arguably needed, but unsure), Chest Splitter on a speed set will not hit the moment you see your character model and enemy model collide in your screen, you will have to wait for a second or so after just to have it execute the way you want it to. This is because your actual location coordinates on the server are not in sync with the location coordinates on your screen.


    This is also why there are times a Skyward Smash/Gale will launch you backward instead of forward despite your character model facing forward.

    This also explains a lot of the threads about why "Arrows are going through rocks in PvP". No they aren't. Your actual location registered on the server is still on the exposed part, you being behind the rock on your screen was not your device telling you "I'm here", it's your device telling the server "go here".




    Not gonna lie, I didn't think there was that much difference before as I normally play on 350-500 ping and people still seem responsive.





    Milo Selfies Team: "So why is that? How come everything feels so smooth and I don't notice the delays at all?"

    Phobik, star of The Walk In Debt: That's because your every action is stored in the server. How much of it is stored, I don't know, but I'm pretty certain.

    Arguments to prove this?

    >Video above where Dagor is literally delayed on my end for 2 seconds. My end is merely playing the record of his actions in order. (Otherwise, why didn't he stop where I did?)

    >Notice how when you recover from a huge ping spike, suddenly everyone starts moving again yet extremely fast as if its retrieving everything everyone did, playing it fast so that you can be in sync at the most latest time possible according to your ping

    >It only makes sense because it gives the illusion of fluidity and realtime. If we're going by perfect accuracy, you'd probably see toons jump from point A to point B once they hit a ping spike and recover from it.




    How does this affect you?

    PVE:

    > I imagine not much as I've never noticed it until we did the test unless...

    > You're aiming for timed LB runs. This might explain the planar arena "cheating" rumors, for all we know it's just ping difference as it will affect:
    >>> How fast UI will pop when you click an NPC
    >>> How fast damage will reflect on boss/enemies once you attack


    PVP:

    Well first off, we[I] now have a really good reason as to why we[I] suck at PvP.
    As you can imagine, half a second is already a lot in PvP. Much more so for 2 seconds, but I'll tell you which it might not be as bad as 2 seconds:

    >There are skills like Skyward Smash/Axe, that has two parts to it. Pressing the button on Skyward Smash is local, but the part where it jumps and smashes is the part where it already retrieved the data necessary to execute the skill on the server. Same goes for Axe. The throw is local, but the pull is the part where you've received the necessary data. Now the question for you, do any of those skills actually gave you 2 seconds of delay? If yes then it is as bad as you figured, if not then it's not as bad. It's not uncommon to see the axe technically "miss" the enemy toon yet they still get pulled, because as we've stated before, what your toon does on screen is local. The 2 second delay is probably mostly tied to character model coordinates, as for skill delays, there likely is delay but probably only a second or half of it. Then again...

    >That half a second-a second delay could be a big BIG difference in PvP. Especially in intense clashes where timing needs precision. Always remember that the ping will:
    >>> Determine how fast you could see your team's HP drop
    >>> Determine how fast you could react to a skill. It might look like it's on time for you, but it actually looks late for them.
    >>> Determine how fast damage will reflect on your HP bar
    >>> Determine if you've already escaped a combo vs you have not (as stated above with the Rogue behind the rocks example)


    In my opinion, this is the more accurate version of the video above:


    As text data is fairly small, I'd say it travels faster from one toon to another. The Horn delay imo is pretty realistic as you'd see it on your end first before the others will see it. Now depending of your ping, this may even be worse for you. Tbh this isn't even as accurate as I'd hope it would be since we only tested it once and outside of PvP. It would be nice if someone could test this on a PvP-LB PVE setup. Anyways, feel free to draw your own conclusion.

    Sr. Test Tickles: "Does that mean if I have yellow ping, I don't have a chance on top 10 PvP LB at all?"

    Phobik, Professional Foodmonger, Heavyweight Division: Not at all! Sure you may be at a disadvantage, but don't let your dreams be dreams! For all we know some of the Top 10 in PvP might actually be playing on 400 ping average. But I suggest you check out the youtube channels of your favorite AL PvP players. Check their ping, I'm sure you'll be pleasantly surprised. Do note that they're plenty skilled already, the ping just helps to even further their strength. Not gonna drag it here for fear it might cause drama, I didn't write a thread for 3 and a half hours just for it to be taken down.

    That's pretty much all I have. Feel free to form your own conclusion, do your own tests even. The better we understand it, the more beneficial it will be for everyone.

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    Default

    Summary of the thread for other readers, ping = delay.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilove_Poopoo View Post
    Summary of the thread for other readers, ping = delay.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
    I'm glad you learned something

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilove_Poopoo View Post
    Summary of the thread for other readers, ping = delay.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
    Ping isn't delay. Ping or latency is the rate of data transmission between a local system and the server, something that the OP has tried to elaborate in the thread. You'd make more sense if you atleast said "high ping = delay" but I can tell you're afraid of longer sentences, which is completely understandable don't worry. Your summary is weak though, I spit on it.


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    Last edited by Roycedamagnet; 12-06-2020 at 11:43 AM.
    We've been sittin' here, you and I, like a couple of regular fellas.

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    Default

    Nice thread.
    Unfortunately this game is very close to being completely dead & it definitely isn't 'big' enough to have more than 1 server.

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    Wonderful thread, phobik. You've put in some work! Interesting how pets don't move during ping spikes, guess their reactions are based off of our character's movement and coordinates as well, hmm.


    P.S: Sameer says helloooo to Ben Dover and Sr. Test Tickles.
    We've been sittin' here, you and I, like a couple of regular fellas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roycedamagnet View Post
    Ping isn't delay. Ping or latency is the rate of data transmission between a local system and the server, something that the OP has tried to elaborate in the thread. You'd make more sense if you atleast said "high ping = delay" but I can tell you're afraid of longer sentences, which is completely understandable don't worry. Your summary is weak though, I spit on it.
    No he is right, ping is delay.
    Wether its 1 ping or 999 ping, it’s still delay.
    Wether its High ping or low ping, its still delay so im gonna have to spit on this aswell

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    Junior Member Stonks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spooked View Post
    No he is right, ping is delay.
    Wether its 1 ping or 999 ping, it’s still delay.
    Wether its High ping or low ping, its still delay so im gonna have to spit on this aswell
    Quote Originally Posted by Ilove_Poopoo View Post
    Summary of the thread for other readers, ping = delay.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk
    There's more to ping than just labelling it as delay. Don't be so narrow minded. Ping CAUSES delay. Ping ISN'T delay. I spit on all of you
    Last edited by Stonks; 12-06-2020 at 11:33 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stonks View Post
    There's more to ping than just labelling it as delay. Don't be so narrow minded. I spit on all of you
    Okay professor, but saying ping ISNT delay is even more narrow minded, nay, false.
    Looking forward to your elaborate explanation

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    By more elaborate do you want me to say something along these lines?
    "It's still delay"
    "No it's still delay, no u"

    Quote Originally Posted by Spooked View Post
    No he is right, ping is delay.
    Wether its 1 ping or 999 ping, it’s still delay.
    Wether its High ping or low ping, its still delay so im gonna have to spit on this aswell
    Quote Originally Posted by Spooked View Post
    Okay professor, but saying ping ISNT delay is even more narrow minded, nay, false.
    Looking forward to your elaborate explanation
    I've edited my reply, please check again. Ping causes delay. You can't say ping is delay, that's just ignorance.
    Last edited by Stonks; 12-06-2020 at 12:11 PM. Reason: Typo

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    Senior Member Roycedamagnet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stonks View Post





    I've edited my reply, check again. Ping cases delay. You can't say ping is delay, that's just ignorance.

    Ty this is what I meant.
    Also let's stop spitting on each other for a while

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    Last edited by Roycedamagnet; 12-06-2020 at 11:46 AM.
    We've been sittin' here, you and I, like a couple of regular fellas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roycedamagnet View Post
    Ping isn't delay. Ping or latency is the rate of data transmission between a local system and the server, something that the OP has tried to elaborate in the thread. You'd make more sense if you atleast said "high ping = delay" but I can tell you're afraid of longer sentences, which is completely understandable don't worry. Your summary is weak though, I spit on it.


    Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalk
    Sure, ping isn't a synonym of delay. But the context was:

    Regardless of how much ping you have will still result to some degree of delay (except 0, but thats impossible anyway). Which is what the whole thread is, with the integration of character/skills behavior.

    Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roycedamagnet View Post
    Ty this is what I meant.
    Also let's stop spitting on each other for a while

    Sent from my HD1901 using Tapatalk
    You started spitting first lol, what did you expect?

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    Senior Member Krystalteam's Avatar
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    Great post here.

    AL feels mostly server-sided so ping is rather important in making decisions. Frankly anything above 200ms can be quite annoying.

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