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Thread: Make Twinks Great Again

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    Senior Member Lawpvp's Avatar
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    Default Make Twinks Great Again

    I've been wanting to make this thread for awhile, and I just had an interaction with a newer player that convinced me to finally do it. For those who remember, twinking back around 2014-2016 was amazing. For many people I talk to, those are our fondest memories of pvp in this game. Many people long for the days of old when twinking was truly active. I honestly believe STS could revive twinking to resemble what it once was. It would require bold action, but I think it payoff greatly. Before I get into how to "Make Twinks Great Again", I want to address what caused the decline of twinking and pvp in general.

    Back around 2015-2016, you could make a nice twink for a few million gold. Get a weapon with a para gem, a decent arcane pet like toor or maridos, and everything else was pretty cheap. It was accessible to most players. Yes there was some power discrepancy between people with 1 para and people with multiple paras/eyes, but those could be overcome by being a better player. Eventually we were introduced to taverns and location buffs. For those that could afford it, they had to spend several extra million gold on their twinks. For those who couldn't the power discrepancy grew. Next, we were introduced to egg slotting. Now instead of 1 arcane egg, people were using 2, or even 3. The cost of twinking and the power discrepancy between players rose even more. Which brings us to the final nail in the coffin, awakenings. A system in which someone can basicly spend infinite gold until they have a statistical advantage.

    So how can twinking can revived? Well, I think it's evident that twinking thrives on accessibility. Twinking at the moment is too expensive for most players. Gear is scarce because most old twink players quit with their gear due to the reasons I mentioned above). If there was more gear that was affordable, twinking would be more accessible and more active.

    HERE'S MY SOLUTION:
    -Add a legacy vendor. This vendor would offer some of the most common twink items from the past including ancient druid sets, icescale sets, lurid bows, devourer bows, storm swords, dark watch swords, (I could use some input on mage weapons lol), tarlok amulets, eerie amulets, the power/legend/enchanted/ensorcelled rings, etc.
    -The items would be given at the same level as your character(up to lvl 40 or somethin like that) and would be purchased with tokens
    -These tokens would drop from low level bosses and would be locked to your character(So you can't just farm them on an endgame character with speed set). If you've entered a low level map recently, it's usually empty. This would provide a reason for experienced players to farm low level maps, creating a more active atmosphere for new players leveling up for the first time.

    Lets get a few things straight because I already know some of the concerns. First off, it wouldn't be easy to obtain the items from the vendor. Each one could require 500 tokens(or 500 boss kills) and that's just for 1 item. This system would be for people who don't have the gold, but are willing to dedicate the time to farm out a twink set. Or, for others, they could use this system to farm items and sell them(providing another method for new players to make gold). Yes this would devalue the twink items currently in the game. However, these vendor items would be clean, with no awakenings. So the people who already have twink items with great awakenings, those items are still going to be valuable. And let's be honest, to the people who are still twinking, do you really care if your items become less valuable if pvp becomes more active in return? Most people would take that trade all day. I know I would. Let's get back to the vendor(and maybe the most controversial proposal)

    -The Vendor would also offer Eyes of Syrillax and Paracelsous soul stones for tokens(maybe 1000, and 2000 respectively). Why? Why should STS bring something back that they worked so hard to remove from the game. Because despite all their efforts, paras/eyes are still around and still have an influence on the game. Lets say they added in all the stuff I mentioned above but not paras/eyes. There would still be a limited amount of para gems that only some people have. There would always be that discrepancy between people with a para gem and people without. Para gems should be more common imo. It's one of the communities favorite visual effects of all time.
    -STS created a new jewel system and limited gems to lvl 46 and below because a select few eyes and paras had been hoarded across expansions. If they brought back paras/eyes, they wouldn't want them to intrude on endgame. Since some endgamers may use lvl 30-40 artifacts, STS could make it so that these gems cannot be slotted into artifacts.

    How does any of this benefit STS? Well, lots of new twink items would need awakenings. Awakenings have become one of their primary revenue streams and this system would further drive that revenue stream.

    SECONDARY SOLUTIONS:
    -Add a pvp damage modifier that starts at lvl 1 and scales all the way to 30 or 40. Why? Armor awakenings are very strong at twink levels. Ideally, lvl 10s would never have been able to get +300 armor on a piece of gear. At this point, they've been around too long imo for STS to make changes to the awakening values. Instead, a damage modifier would help to speed up pvp at low levels whilst retaining the value of awakenings that people already have. This damage modifier would be greatest at low levels, and slowly scale down to zero as your level increases. A damage modifier would likely need testing and iteration, but I think twink players would be more than willing to assist in that regard by providing feedback until satisfactory levels are reached.
    -New CTF Map. The reskinned TDM map was a success. But Let's be honest, most people wish CTF was the primary map. There's a lot more strategy because of the walls and the layout, and 5v5 is better than 4v4. I think the community would embrace a new CTF map.

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    I'll probably come back later to see if I missed anything, but these are my initial thoughts on how to Make Twinks Great Again

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    Why not just go endgame and play honor if ur complaining about pricing and gear

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    Senior Member Lawpvp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by looiaqop View Post
    Why not just go endgame and play honor if ur complaining about pricing and gear
    Because the #1 endgame honor pvp player is my friend, a twink player, and he would openly admit that twink pvp back in the day was way better than honor pvp today. I don't want to play with randos on my team who have no clue what they're doing. I want to pvp with my friends on my team. Plus you couldn't pay me to level to endgame. In the time it would take, I could level several characters to endgame in World of Warcraft which is simply a better use of my time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawpvp View Post
    Because the #1 endgame honor pvp player is my friend, a twink player, and he would openly admit that twink pvp back in the day was way better than honor pvp today. I don't want to play with randos on my team who have no clue what they're doing. I want to pvp with my friends on my team. Plus you couldn't pay me to level to endgame. In the time it would take, I could level several characters to endgame in World of Warcraft which is simply a better use of my time.
    Then go play world of Warcraft, this is AL. The reality is Twink is not coming back, STS added honor pvp for this specific reason. Also you don’t need to play ranked pvp it’s optional. You can go in the normal honor pvp map “where you can play with your friends”. You could argue it’s the most active pvp bracket and game mode at this time.

    They killed off twink for a reason, they want players to go endgame since that’s what an MMORPG imo is about. The adventure, the loot, the grind, to be able to reach the tier of being “The Arcane Legend”. Pvp is just a game mode to prove who’s ego is bigger. Don’t get me wrong, pvp is fun but it’s a secondary element in this game. There’s a reason we see more players in pve maps than pvp.

    Feel free to disagree.


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    Senior Member Lawpvp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by THE GOLDEN KING View Post
    Then go play world of Warcraft, this is AL. The reality is Twink is not coming back, STS added honor pvp for this specific reason. Also you don’t need to play ranked pvp it’s optional. You can go in the normal honor pvp map “where you can play with your friends”. You could argue it’s the most active pvp bracket and game mode at this time.

    They killed off twink for a reason, they want players to go endgame since that’s what an MMORPG imo is about. The adventure, the loot, the grind, to be able to reach the tier of being “The Arcane Legend”. Pvp is just a game mode to prove who’s ego is bigger. Don’t get me wrong, pvp is fun but it’s a secondary element in this game. There’s a reason we see more players in pve maps than pvp.

    Feel free to disagree.


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    I can play both. Don't have to pick. The reality is the game is less active than it used to be because they killed off twinks. People seem to forget that in the past, some people only played endgame to fund their twinks and twinks helped fuel the economy. More active twinks = more active endgame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawpvp View Post
    I can play both. Don't have to pick. The reality is the game is less active than it used to be because they killed off twinks. People seem to forget that in the past, some people only played endgame to fund their twinks and twinks helped fuel the economy. More active twinks = more active endgame.
    No, the reality is, the level gap between players is too big and that’s why you may think it’s “less active”. Back in the day, it seemed highly active because the level gap was smaller. Thats why sts is trying to fix that, as you can see. It nearly takes 1-2 days to level to 76 to where a few years ago would’ve taken weeks.

    Yes you’re right, some players who played endgame only played to fund their twinks. Now those same players either quit or started to play endgame after twinks died. I am one of those players.

    People don’t play twink anymore, because it’s no longer fun, there aren’t any benefits to twink anymore. I understand it may be hard for you to comprehend that Twinks are no longer a thing. But give endgame a try. It’s not as bad as it seems.


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    Quote Originally Posted by THE GOLDEN KING View Post
    No, the reality is, the level gap between players is too big and that’s why you may think it’s “less active”. Back in the day, it seemed highly active because the level gap was smaller. Thats why sts is trying to fix that, as you can see. It nearly takes 1-2 days to level to 76 to where a few years ago would’ve taken weeks.

    Yes you’re right, some players who played endgame only played to fund their twinks. Now those same players either quit or started to play endgame after twinks died. I am one of those players.

    People don’t play twink anymore, because it’s no longer fun, there aren’t any benefits to twink anymore. I understand it may be hard for you to comprehend that Twinks are no longer a thing. But give endgame a try. It’s not as bad as it seems.


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    no, back in the day it was highly active because more people played the game. Do you really think this community has replaced all the people that quit? Not even close. It has nothing to do with the level gap. The level gap is higher now, but people are less spread out. A greater percentage of people are at endgame. By your logic the game should seem more active since people are condensed at lvl 76, instead of large groups of players at 7-8, 10-11, 13-14, 15-17, 23-24, 27, etc. like it was in the past

    People do still play twinks and they have fun with it. Just because you're not one them, doesn't mean you get to say those people don't exist. And it actually is as bad as it seems. I've always maintained that twink players were better at pvp than endgamers. Given the #1 honor pvp spot is currently held by a twink player, I think that checks out. The first time I tried out endgame pvp, they didn't even know that Nekro shield had a 5 second cooldown because they just charge in and mash buttons.
    Last edited by Lawpvp; 03-07-2021 at 07:08 PM.

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    All due respect, you say "you couldn't pay me to level to end game", but have devised a way that a twink would repeatedly grind for tokens. Isn't that the same ?
    To be fair, I do like the idea that it would envigorate low lev maps, that would benifit new players.

    I see you do address how this would posibly be worth sts' time, but I wonder if awakens alone would, js.

    Have you wondered about the possibility of asking for a low lev to get an honor set for that lev?
    Make it a premium map to be bought w plat
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephencobear View Post
    All due respect, you say "you couldn't pay me to level to end game", but have devised a way that a twink would repeatedly grind for tokens. Isn't that the same ?
    To be fair, I do like the idea that it would envigorate low lev maps, that would benifit new players.

    I see you do address how this would posibly be worth sts' time, but I wonder if awakens alone would, js.

    Have you wondered about the possibility of asking for a low lev to get an honor set for that lev?
    Make it a premium map to be bought w plat
    Thanks for your post. I think tokens would be a bit different than leveling to endgame. Yes, both would require spamming the same maps over and over. But Leveling in and of itself doesn't provide anything tangible. You have to level up to wear endgame gear to run endgame maps but the leveling itself doesn't give you anything. Personally, just for me, I'm not interested in that. If they gave me a para gem for leveling to 76, then i'd probably do it.

    I agree that the awakenings alone might not be much, but this system wouldn't require much effort on STS part. Part of the reason I chose past items that already exist, instead of making a new set of twink items, is so that STS doesn't have to do work. These items already exist, they don't need new models or textures. All it would need is a vendor in travelers outpost or something, and 1 new kind of token.

    I would be somewhat interested in a low level honor set. I think part of what made twinks unique is you could use different gear builds, try lots of different pet combos in clash. Honor pvp would be more monotonous, because you couldn't try out any and all pet combos, etc. but I would welcome a low level honor set.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawpvp View Post
    no, back in the day it was highly active because more people played the game. Do you really think this community has replaced all the people that quit? Not even close. It has nothing to do with the level gap. The level gap is higher now, but people are less spread out. A greater percentage of people are at endgame. By your logic the game should seem more active since people are condensed at lvl 76, instead of large groups of players at 7-8, 10-11, 13-14, 15-17, 23-24, 27, etc. like it was in the past

    People do still play twinks and they have fun with it. Just because you're not one them, doesn't mean you get to say those people don't exist. And it actually is as bad as it seems. I've always maintained that twink players were better at pvp than endgamers. Given the #1 honor pvp spot is currently held by a twink player, I think that checks out. The first time I tried out endgame pvp, they didn't even know that Nekro shield had a 5 second cooldown because they just charge in and mash buttons.
    Players who havnt played twink pvp during the years of 2013-2015 have no idea what Fun is. Twink players were better based off experience... also I wonder why the #1 honor pvp spot is held by a twink player? Perhaps because it’s basically twink? Only difference is that the damage is buffed and armor is nerfed?

    Listen, I don’t hate twink or think it was bad. I personally enjoyed twink, and since it’s death during mid 2016 hoped for it to come back. I even revived an entire bracket. Level 32 PvP. Total 80 players(10-20 active daily), had a set of rules where all classes were not only balanced based off stats but that of skill too, similar to that of honor pvp with no over powered pets. It died out because people broke the rules, after that day I knew twink pvp was gone forever.

    That is why I tried to cope with this new change and gave endgame a try. Don’t get me wrong, it’s no twink 2013-2015 but over the years endgame has gotten slightly better.


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    Quote Originally Posted by THE GOLDEN KING View Post
    Players who havnt played twink pvp during the years of 2013-2015 have no idea what Fun is. Twink players were better based off experience... also I wonder why the #1 honor pvp spot is held by a twink player? Perhaps because it’s basically twink? Only difference is that the damage is buffed and armor is nerfed?

    Listen, I don’t hate twink or think it was bad. I personally enjoyed twink, and since it’s death during mid 2016 hoped for it to come back. I even revived an entire bracket. Level 32 PvP. Total 80 players(10-20 active daily), had a set of rules where all classes were not only balanced based off stats but that of skill too, similar to that of honor pvp with no over powered pets. It died out because people broke the rules, after that day I knew twink pvp was gone forever.

    That is why I tried to cope with this new change and gave endgame a try. Don’t get me wrong, it’s no twink 2013-2015 but over the years endgame has gotten slightly better.


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    I get where you're coming from. To be honest I was rooting for you guys at 32 to keep it together. I was a little disappointed when it fell through. I know STS will probably not do anything to revive twinks, but they have the power to try. And I think something like what I've come up with could gradually revive twinks, would be unintrusive to endgame content, while also providing some secondary benefits for newer players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawpvp View Post
    I get where you're coming from. To be honest I was rooting for you guys at 32 to keep it together. I was a little disappointed when it fell through. I know STS will probably not do anything to revive twinks, but they have the power to try. And I think something like what I've come up with could gradually revive twinks, would be unintrusive to endgame content, while also providing some secondary benefits for newer players.
    It’s extremely unlikely they will revive twinks, but if they do something. More power to you, but tbh with you. I think they’re just going to focus on endgame. Especially with the new expansion coming up. Also any new benefits for new players are welcomed!


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    Go Twink on Hardcore, problem solved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Switchback View Post
    Go Twink on Hardcore, problem solved.
    genius. except it died off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lawpvp View Post
    Thanks for your post. I think tokens would be a bit different than leveling to endgame. Yes, both would require spamming the same maps over and over. But Leveling in and of itself doesn't provide anything tangible. You have to level up to wear endgame gear to run endgame maps but the leveling itself doesn't give you anything. Personally, just for me, I'm not interested in that. If they gave me a para gem for leveling to 76, then i'd probably do it.
    I see we could disagree with “ doesn't provide anything tangible” but there’s no need I see your points

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawpvp View Post
    I agree that the awakenings alone might not be much, but this system wouldn't require much effort on STS part. Part of the reason I chose past items that already exist, instead of making a new set of twink items, is so that STS doesn't have to do work. These items already exist, they don't need new models or textures. All it would need is a vendor in travelers outpost or something, and 1 new kind of token.

    I would be somewhat interested in a low level honor set. I think part of what made twinks unique is you could use different gear builds, try lots of different pet combos in clash. Honor pvp would be more monotonous, because you couldn't try out any and all pet combos, etc. but I would welcome a low level honor set.
    You may have a good point as to what would require more coding effort! Idk, and yeah i see variety would be more favorable.
    I still like the idea that this feature should require plat so it’s worth their time.
    Just speculation, worth contemplating
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    Ah I'd love to play as a twink again but idk what happened to most guilds. Mmph, Kronos, nvm, and all of them.
    Edit: Just realized most of Mmph got banned lol.

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