Is it wrong for engineer pvpers to use Transference?

[TheRajX]

Hello,
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I am TheRajX. I'm a moderator in another forum board (Uberstrike), but I've come to check out this game and I think its awesome. I've been playing for some time and am currently level 40 now demotivated to earn 28k xp to the next level. But to entertain myself on the way there I chose to participate in pvp. I've tried a variety of tactics and met some awesome engi battlers and I've developed my own excellent build which is surprisingly....identical....to morfic's.

For PVE purposes I found the skill "transference" very useful because it damages each and every mob and gives you all the health. However for PVP purposes I find it cheap. I see a problem with leeching health off of players who don't even participate in the duel. My question is...what do you guys think? I believe in strictly 1 on 1 and usually win against engineers who use transference in a conflict resolution game but get slaughtered when in a full FFA game.
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Also some suggestions for engi improvement:

- Increase heals. Empathy effectivity drops from 95 hp/3 seconds too 24 hp/3 seconds. Raise this to around 50 and we might see a balance.

- A Never Fail push skill. We need to be able to push our opponents out of the way. I can film a youtube short of an engineer vs. and operative. If the engineer makes one tiny timing error, ops can lash and drain 70 percent of health, then lash and drain again. If we happened to get out with 30% of hp left to heal, we still have to be careful and pull the same stunt over again. What are the chances of that?? It takes three rounds of dots (because of dodge) for even noncustom ops to die.

- Extend the ranges of our dots to....15 meters. If operatives have the same range as us then as stated in every engi pvp guide, all we can do is supress and hope* that ops and coms waste away their buffs. Hope cannot be the only way to win.

- More damaging dots or aoe. We cannot be expected to run around the map 5 times minimum to kill an operative and 30 times for a commando. Thats just ridiculous. Engis not only have to put up with boredom but also being called runners and kiters and at some cases being kicked from games for that.

- Make "INT" more beneficial. Why is it that good engies have to put all their points into STR? INT must be clear that it is the most beneficial point assignment. (Debatable but for my case it is true)
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~TheRajX

[akfury]

do what you have to win trans is not cheap,



best of luck with engineer pvp i retired my eng from pvp planning to get back into it on next update

[Slyphid]

I really love all of your suggestions at the end, except, perhaps, changing DOT range to 15m. Across all games, the highest range has always been 12m, and it's something people have adjusted to. Engineers could potentially drain operatives of 50-75% of their health (if your second-to-last suggestion was being factored) without even being damaged at all. Other than that, I love your suggestions, especially the first.

[TheRajX]

I really love all of your suggestions at the end, except, perhaps, changing DOT range to 15m. Across all games, the highest range has always been 12m, and it's something people have adjusted to. Engineers could potentially drain operatives of 50-75% of their health (if your last suggested was being factored) without even being damaged at all. Other than that, I love your suggestions, especially the first.

Thank you! Your compliments mean a lot. I have read in a post somewhere that STS Devs continually receive smack about engineer pvps but are never presented discreet solutions and I hope to contribute some to them if they read this post. I see your point on the range problem but the difference can be very slight, say 12.5 or 13 meters because in reality one lurch from an op could most likely means and engis demise.

Another suggestion that I forgot to present:

~Either have pain or suppression stop players from serving damage. Now this would seriously balance things up. The only downside is that the annoyance factor caused by running/kiting will not go away.

do what you have to win trans is not cheap,



best of luck with engineer pvp i retired my eng from pvp planning to get back into it on next update

I understand your point on doing what you have to win at the moment because of the severe imbalance between pvp classes and for the time being I partially agree which is why I opened up the debate to the community. Like you I hope in the following update a fortified engi pvp structure is built and I don't have to feel immoral in a way. Of course, conflict resolution is always a temporary solution.

[Slyphid]

13m would actually work quite well, as there are actually certain weapons with 13m range. I'm not opposed to that at all

[Zaonabiuibil]

I personally don't steal outsiders' HP when PvPing on my engineer, yet, hey, ops and coms, please give us a break on the "runner" "kiter" "HP stealer" excuses. We do what we have to to win. Make an engineer, you guys face a com or op. Then you'll see

[Jugernugetx]

engineers all run around those four squares in pvp arena. they keep doing it and doing it. like, its not possible to beat a kiter or a runner. one time, i battled this one engineer and he kept running and running until i actually said "stop the fight i forfeit". Thats how much they run. They might need to cut down on running a litle bit
Not disagreeing with zao its just engineers run TOO much.
-Jugernuget

[TheRajX]

engineers all run around those four squares in pvp arena. they keep doing it and doing it. like, its not possible to beat a kiter or a runner. one time, i battled this one engineer and he kept running and running until i actually said "stop the fight i forfeit". Thats how much they run. They might need to cut down on running a litle bit
Not disagreeing with zao its just engineers run TOO much.
-Jugernuget

Yep I agree. Unfortunately I have to run that much to even get you comms to 99% HP. If we go all out we can get to 65% if we are lucky. Hopefully the following STS updates will mitigate/eliminate this necessary action by engis to survive.

[Staryknight]

What players without engineers don't understand is that we have to run if we want any chance of winning. We have no crit buff, no dodge buff, and no useful debuffs. We have heals and dots which means a long battle with kiting.

The change I think we need is to see for heals break the op root skill and the com slow skill. As it stands the only stun we can break is another engi stun and this makes no sense to me. This change would make logical sense and help balance the classes.

As for transference I don't think using it on others is cheap. Its just using the arena to your advantage. You have stuns, keep the battle away from your teammates if your opponent has trans. The only thing I would call "cheating" is when engis have their friends follow them in battle so they are always in range to leech hp from. If it bothers you, you can always host locked games and keep things strictly 1v1.

[akfury]

engineers all run around those four squares in pvp arena. they keep doing it and doing it. like, its not possible to beat a kiter or a runner. one time, i battled this one engineer and he kept running and running until i actually said "stop the fight i forfeit". Thats how much they run. They might need to cut down on running a litle bit
Not disagreeing with zao its just engineers run TOO much.
-Jugernuget

people like you ticked me off i worked hard on my eng then im in a fight with people like you who leave during a fight or after i win rush because im a runner excuse me correction im a kiter go make a freaking eng level him to 40 then fight a com have fun tell me what its like after your done

[TheRajX]

The change I think we need is to see for heals break the op root skill and the com slow skill. As it stands the only stun we can break is another engi stun and this makes no sense to me. This change would make logical sense and help balance the classes.
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Awesome idea, we should compile a list of improvements for sts. There are lists scattered throughout the forums on improvements but there isn't one solid definitive one everyone agrees with. Again, awesome idea, i'd definitely be "partially" (lol) satisfied with mez breaker abilities on gravity slam or lurch...or any solid buffs/debuffs for that matter...

We also have one uncreated skill - hopefully this could be a god skill that would be uber-useful to us engis. If this supposed skill is not created by the level cap raise...then i'll upgrade my transference to level 6 so that I will use transference for 3vs3 arenas and force shield for a conflict res game.

[Zaonabiuibil]

Awesome idea, we should compile a list of improvements for sts. There are lists scattered throughout the forums on improvements but there isn't one solid definitive one everyone agrees with. Again, awesome idea, i'd definitely be "partially" (lol) satisfied with mez breaker abilities on gravity slam or lurch...or any solid buffs/debuffs for that matter...

We also have one uncreated skill - hopefully this could be a god skill that would be uber-useful to us engis. If this supposed skill is not created by the level cap raise...then i'll upgrade my transference to level 6 so that I will use transference for 3vs3 arenas and force shield for a conflict res game.

For this skill:
Op: instant kill but it takes 10 seconds to unleash
Com: Blocks any attacks completely for 5 seconds
Engineer: Takes the first skill an enemy uses and deflects it back at them

[Slyphid]

Please do note bash me for bumping this, but I think this topic is more than relevant and I'd like to see some of these things implemented in the coming update.

[Slyphid]

Aw, I apologize, I didn't realize you had written another thread very similar to this :/

[markymarx]

Don't worry , engineer is hardest class to pvp with. By choosing an engineer for pvp you are telling people that there is no way in the world u r afraid of a challenge. No critical buff, no push, mild rooting, and no useful custom set, no blur... So if an op loses to an engi, its either cuz the engi is pro, lucky, or op is noob.

[markymarx]

Trans.. use it if vs comms or ops. But not when vs other engineer cuz then it is as you say Wrong.

[markymarx]

Too leech from opponents teammates of course .

[akfury]

Nope it's not wrong unless you agree before the fight to not do as such it's a FFA arena it's a funny tactic and works like a charm