Developers please take a step back and look at the big picture...

[Dakkine]

I've played and supported this game literally from the hour of its release, but im starting to get a little annoyed...

So with the newest update daggers (speed 1.0) are now slower than 1H swords (speed 0.9) and crossbows are WAY too fast.

We know you've been trying to balance out base damage and DPS among other things. By trying to balance things you're beginning to offset some others. Take a deep breath and look at the big picture here, a dagger should be faster than a sword... period. You guys are doing a great job trying to make everyone happy but I know you all are smart enough to figure this stuff out on your own. Put off visiting the board for two weeks and sit down really look over the game for yourself.

The problem is your trying to fix something through the wrong means. The weapons were balanced perfectly from the start. The attribute system was a little quirky but getting better. To further balance out the classes you can't start changing all the weapons because thats not the origin of the problem.

The issue lies in that 3 attributes are not enough to create a natural equilibrium in the game stats. There are 10 stats that are determined by only 3 attributes, there is not enough data spread which means the reliance upon numbers to create a smooth transition between classes is impossible.

its all from simple statistics as well as any theorem or test in any scientific field...

You must have a minimum required set (attribute points) for the amount of data(character stats) to ensure the validity of the results (balance of the classes)

I created a very detailed post a while ago about additional stats, theres really no way around it.

[Synozeer]

Totally agree. As a matter of fact, I just posted about the dagger issue before reading this post:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...dagger-bear...

I think a lot of the changes in the latest content update were in the right direction, but several caused new issues.

[Shebee]

I totally agree the problem being the attributes.
I
why not have health come from a own attribute instead?
Make another stat that affects hit and crit rating and let str and dex be the dps stats for warriors and archers for example.
I think the attributes require a complete revamp.

[darrensmith016]

im sure it will all get sorted in time, the games only been out for a month or so.. give them a chance

[Justg]

Live for 11 days on the iPhone, but who's counting?

Seriously, love to hear yall's thoughts... keep it up.

[Dakkine]

Things just starting to over complicated when it should be very simple...

Look at everything realistically...

First, figure out the increasing order of speed for all the weapons, then create a reasonable scale to fit all the weapons into and determine their speed. The general weps for each class should all have a speed of about 1.0 (make this 1 attack per second). This means the 1H sword, bow, and fireblaster should each be within 0.9-1.1. Then each class should have the faster weps like dagger, rapier or scimitar, and wand that have decreased damage, but speed of 1.4-1.8 (again, this is attack/second). Save attack speeds of 2.0+ for the fancy loot of these items with the same damage. Next each class should have the slower more powerful weps (2H swords, crossbows, staffs, etc...) with an attack rate of 0.4-0.7.

You then have the weapons that are more advanced... auto-crossbows, simply give them a very small increase in damage from their non-auto equivalent and speed maybe 0.1-0.2 slower than a bow of similar level. Do the same for corresponding weps of different classes.

Damage should be done in the same manner, set a reasonable scale and use it.

eg., damage ratio for dagger : 1H sword : axe : 2H sword
0.6 : 1.0 : 1.2 : 1.6

Use this scale to find a mid-point base damage, then give 1H swords a range of damage of +/- 30%, daggers a range of +/- 16%, axe's range of 34%, and 2H's a range of 38%

For every 5 levels decrease the damage range percent by 10% ----> 27%, 14.4%, 30.6%, 34.2%... This keeps you from ending up with a weapon doing 350 - 650 damage in the long run...

from here you can finally look at how the stats react to this realistic setup and adjust accordingly. Thanks for reading

[darrensmith016]

Live for 11 days on the iPhone, but who's counting?

Seriously, love to hear yall's thoughts... keep it up.

aha! 11 days. on my calender!

[Shebee]

Id likenthe whole attribute thing to be revamped completely, in its current form therw is always that "aah but if its like that then the other thing doesnt work".

This is an idea i just came up with.
Dex for archer dmg
Str for warrior dmg
Int for enchantreas dmg
Hp for well, health

and give armor dmg stat requirements combined with lower hp requirements.
Pure dmg would be stacking the dmg stat wih some hp to use low lvl armor for minot stat buffs, dmg along with survivability would be the normal way, this would also support pvp in the future.
Just an idea.

[Dakkine]

It also might not hurt to give all characters a skill reset in the event new attributes were implemented. The amount of people getting upset when these big changes come after they pay for a re-spec is growing quite large.

[Dakkine]

Id likenthe whole attribute thing to be revamped completely, in its current form therw is always that "aah but if its like that then the other thing doesnt work".

This is an idea i just came up with.
Dex for archer dmg
Str for warrior dmg
Int for enchantreas dmg
Hp for well, health

and give armor dmg stat requirements combined with lower hp requirements.
Pure dmg would be stacking the dmg stat wih some hp to use low lvl armor for minot stat buffs, dmg along with survivability would be the normal way, this would also support pvp in the future.
Just an idea.

Those attributes would be way too linear, just like we have now. It would still push players to put full points into one area. It needs to be spread out more as described in the post I linked above.

[Banned]

There's no other way to put it. This is absolute bull****. Why did daggers have to be decreased to help out warriors? I don't care if it is "fair" it's not gonna make the warrior class any better. I understand that you guys improved the warrior class but making the daggers useless didn't increase a warriors tanking ability did it? Did it increase their health? Did it help out there buffs? Did it make them any more powerful? They answer to all these questions is a obvious NO. Now ANOTHER class is going to be pissed and it's gonna be the warrior drama all over again.

[KronicDecay]

Dude watch the profanity.... Remember that this is a family game and forum. We understand your upset but you can use a better choice of words to make your point

[Garrison]

I understand people wanting "balanced" weapons and stats, but if you balance everything too much there will be nothing to distinguish them.

For example, if you really want to get nit-picky you could keep fiddling with daggers, trying to make them faster than other weapons, but also doing less damage so that DPS is comprable to other weapons. That's all well and good to a point, but you still need to create enough diversity in the items to where it's worth picking one over the other - for reasons other than simple style preference.

I suppose it's fine for some of the more standard or mundane weapons at a particular level to have the same DPS, but certainly not all. For the sheer fun of the game, some weapons will have to be unbalanced. The more unbalanced, of course, the more rare or expensive the weapon.

At a certain point, some items should not be available for sale at all and instead be extremely rare drops. This is already in place from what I see. Incidentally, I would support a limit to how many such drops a given character can receive (farming is for soil).

[Banned]

Dude watch the profanity.... Remember that this is a family game and forum. We understand your upset but you can use a better choice of words to make your point

Sorry, I don't remember this as being advertised as a family game or forum. It's a word, it's not directed at anyone, get over it. And I'll try to do my part and not swear again, but don't make it sound like I just killed someone.

[Justg]

Folks, we love your passion but please be civil. There are rules about profanity and whatnot right here:

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...ge-Forum-Rules

I understand that whatever changes go into the game may please some people and tick off others, but please understand that we are trying to make it better for the greater good. We'll keep balancing, you keep letting us know how you feel about it. In a civil fashion, please

[maxvegas]

as an archer i really dont care about dagers ,i would use them for their dps spec from time to time to f...K around ,bt since range weapons got their dps updated im a happy camper.... and since the team upgrade the game at light speed you will use your precious dagger with another class wink wink assassin

[Shebee]

Op you might be right with my idea.
I guess my point is that we cant have hp, dmg, weapon speed, dodge, crit and hit rating in one attribute.
In my opinion the hit% is a bit too much for a pocket mmo anyway.

[Dakkine]

I understand people wanting "balanced" weapons and stats, but if you balance everything too much there will be nothing to distinguish them.

For example, if you really want to get nit-picky you could keep fiddling with daggers, trying to make them faster than other weapons, but also doing less damage so that DPS is comprable to other weapons. That's all well and good to a point, but you still need to create enough diversity in the items to where it's worth picking one over the other - for reasons other than simple style preference.

I suppose it's fine for some of the more standard or mundane weapons at a particular level to have the same DPS, but certainly not all. For the sheer fun of the game, some weapons will have to be unbalanced. The more unbalanced, of course, the more rare or expensive the weapon.

At a certain point, some items should not be available for sale at all and instead be extremely rare drops. This is already in place from what I see. Incidentally, I would support a limit to how many such drops a given character can receive (farming is for soil).

See, you're looking at it from the wrong perspective though. Weapons shouldn't differentiate each class, the stats should. With balanced weapons and a properly configured stat system, the diversity will be so much greater because there will be a reason for each class to distribute points to every attribute. With a greater spread of skill points each class will have at least some ability to wield any weapon to a varying degree, yet still be effective in combat. It's just a more natural course of progression for each class.

Also, with more stats, each players personality will show more on their character since it's more of a customized process.

I'm telling you guys... look at the link in my first post. It just makes sense

[Dakkine]

Op you might be right with my idea.
I guess my point is that we cant have hp, dmg, weapon speed, dodge, crit and hit rating in one attribute.
In my opinion the hit% is a bit too much for a pocket mmo anyway.

You've got the right idea though. If hit% depended on dexterity, agility, and focus though it would be much more acceptable!

[Shebee]

Though i dont agree that each class "should" use all of the attributes.