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  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: Class Balance (Non-toxic discussion)

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    Senior Member Analytical's Avatar
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    Default Class Balance (Non-toxic discussion)

    [Note: Cinco, again, feel free to ban/delete those who instigates unsolicited toxicity/names calling and not this whole thread. To AL players, if you can't communicate without getting mad/cussing at each other, this thread is not for you]

    From the previously deleted thread, the topic was about:
    -Nerfing warrior for being too op in terms of one shoting bosses and
    -Buffing mages and rogues primarily because they pale in this particular pve comparison. (@snakeyes Do correct me if I misunderstood anything you originally wanted to discuss, will be edited as per necessary)

    The main points worthy of discussion imo are
    1. Why is it okay to give warrior the ability to one shot bosses? Or Why not?
    2. If you agree with nerfing warrior, then what would you propose making up for it or not at all? Next, is this proposal gonna make warrior needed in maps and not like the old times where they were excluded from all parties for being useless?
    3. If you want to buff mages and rogues, again how do you ensure this buff doesn't make wars useless in map?
    4. Given the current state of game, to what extent is tanking, taunting still needed(where? Only temple event?)? Or is it pure damage output now? Can decently geared pve players now survive without warriors?
    5. Balance between classes, in what aspect? Do you mean no class should dominate pve nor pvp? Is it considered balanced if all 3 classes are good at either pve or pvp but not both? Or Do you mean Ultimates skill balance? What would happen to wars if mages and rogues have X 6 primary stats too? Is it still "balanced"? If not how would you modify it relevant to the current state of game?

    (POSSIBLE EDITS: Additional questions & suggestions from responses below)

  2.   This is the last Dev post in this thread.   #2
    Design Department Cinco's Avatar
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    I'll zap the whole thread if it goes off the rails.

    Good luck, and best wishes.
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    Senior Member Encryptions's Avatar
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    1 Warrior shouldn't be able to nuke bosses, it makes no sense. Warrior is setup to survive and deal damage, bosses do not do a ton of damage in this game other than evg high waves. Warriors should be more powerful at clearing mobs, not bosses. We die to groups of mobs because we can't clear them fast.
    2 Rework it to kill bosses at a decent speed like 30s - 1minute to kill say the elite bosses in the zodias maps on a 2k str war, make it able to take on groups of mobs easier, add a damage debuff resistance on charged juggernaut.
    3 There is no buffing them, they actually need nerfed down a bit, rogue needs a skill to make it invincible for 3 seconds and increased hp / armor on all 3 classes.
    4 Taunt is useless, if you are a lv 81 warrior with say a lv 75 character behind you then you run up to the mobs; those mobs actually run past you and attack the weakest character first.
    5 6x stats on a mage or rogue would hurt this game. Do 3x stats on ult at the most for mage and rog, remember they get 700% and 500% dmg buffs while their base damage is already higher than a warriors. My mage already crits for 1mil+ damage.

    Just remember swamp temple, rogue and mage right now will go until they die. Warrior will go until he can't kill mobs. See the problem? We should be able to go until we die, not have issues killing mobs. Proc stacking was perfect, it just needed reworked.
    Last edited by Encryptions; 05-20-2022 at 03:14 PM.

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    Or we could start over from scratch with a new AL 2.0 game, so we do t have this giant mess of endgame.


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    Since they removed proc stacking, a single weapon can tip the balance
    Is rogue too weak? Is warrior too strong? Its too early to assume especially
    when new arcane is around the corner.
    Rogue mage and war all had its time. Maybe they will make rogue absolutely op
    again by giving the best proc, and people will spend more gold going for rogue etc
    Maybe or maybe not, but its all a part of the plan.

    Above all, i personally feel like even rogues should hope that they don't make it too op
    Even when rogue got the foreseeably "worst weapons", their gear cost double. If you
    dont want quadruple instead, hope that its not that good.

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    I just hope that we don't get weapons that require 2 charged attacks to proc

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    Quote Originally Posted by Analytical View Post
    [Note: Cinco, again, feel free to ban/delete those who instigates unsolicited toxicity/names calling and not this whole thread. To AL players, if you can't communicate without getting mad/cussing at each other, this thread is not for you]

    From the previously deleted thread, the topic was about:
    -Nerfing warrior for being too op in terms of one shoting bosses and
    -Buffing mages and rogues primarily because they pale in this particular pve comparison. (@snakeyes Do correct me if I misunderstood anything you originally wanted to discuss, will be edited as per necessary)

    The main points worthy of discussion imo are
    1. Why is it okay to give warrior the ability to one shot bosses? Or Why not?
    2. If you agree with nerfing warrior, then what would you propose making up for it or not at all? Next, is this proposal gonna make warrior needed in maps and not like the old times where they were excluded from all parties for being useless?
    3. If you want to buff mages and rogues, again how do you ensure this buff doesn't make wars useless in map?
    4. Given the current state of game, to what extent is tanking, taunting still needed(where? Only temple event?)? Or is it pure damage output now? Can decently geared pve players now survive without warriors?
    5. Balance between classes, in what aspect? Do you mean no class should dominate pve nor pvp? Is it considered balanced if all 3 classes are good at either pve or pvp but not both? Or Do you mean Ultimates skill balance? What would happen to wars if mages and rogues have X 6 primary stats too? Is it still "balanced"? If not how would you modify it relevant to the current state of game?

    (POSSIBLE EDITS: Additional questions & suggestions from responses below)
    This is right @Analytical thanks for this threads, rogue players has been quiet for 2 or more years even rogue has been nerf in pve update, now without toxic words the thoughts and suggestions of each class can be clearly expressed specially rogue users.

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    As to #4 taunt has been broken for years
    I pointed out to Futumsh that taunt is over ridden when someone does more damage than the one who taunted
    He didn’t say it’s bugged
    Both other classes do more damage to mobs normally so they pass by the “tank”

    In pl the tank had a clearly defined role to taunt and pull mobs (like tb proc)
    Here it’s devolved into a competition to do damage

    I said jokingly there are 2 classes now- damage and survive
    \m/,_________( >. <‘ )_________,\m/
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    I think the best recipe is that every class can have fun to run when they have invest some time, gold and money into their characters, i think we can all agree that tedious mechanic is fun for couple of days but become very boring after a while, so the best would be to make every class be able to be op and have fun running

    Ps: Somberholt was the most fun expansion imo especially with tb and later on with ebon aegis hehe (this is from a warr perspective, idk for other class)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Encryptions View Post
    1 Warrior shouldn't be able to nuke bosses, it makes no sense. Warrior is setup to survive and deal damage, bosses do not do a ton of damage in this game other than evg high waves. Warriors should be more powerful at clearing mobs, not bosses. We die to groups of mobs because we can't clear them fast.
    2 Rework it to kill bosses at a decent speed like 30s - 1minute to kill say the elite bosses in the zodias maps on a 2k str war, make it able to take on groups of mobs easier, add a damage debuff resistance on charged juggernaut.
    3 There is no buffing them, they actually need nerfed down a bit, rogue needs a skill to make it invincible for 3 seconds and increased hp / armor on all 3 classes.
    4 Taunt is useless, if you are a lv 81 warrior with say a lv 75 character behind you then you run up to the mobs; those mobs actually run past you and attack the weakest character first.
    5 6x stats on a mage or rogue would hurt this game. Do 3x stats on ult at the most for mage and rog, remember they get 700% and 500% dmg buffs while their base damage is already higher than a warriors. My mage already crits for 1mil+ damage.

    Just remember swamp temple, rogue and mage right now will go until they die. Warrior will go until he can't kill mobs. See the problem? We should be able to go until we die, not have issues killing mobs. Proc stacking was perfect, it just needed reworked.
    Warrior should not have gold AoE clear capabilities, that's Mage's job.

    They need to change the meta in such a way that Warrior's are needed for tanking (aggro mobs and bosses), Mages are needed for clearing mobs (high AoE damage), and rogues are needed for killing bosses and minibosses (high single target damage)

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    Since a skill revamp is on the work I think there should be an open beta version to have players test these changes and point out what needs to be changed or give feedback towards making the gameplay more role-balanced so we end up with an endgame where no class is left behind and maybe even a lively PvP.

    Bringing a feedback thread whenever that skill revamp is close to be implemented in game would help as well.

    Main problem for class balance in my opinion is the impact gear procs have on the actual gameplay, we have come to a situation where we cant kill anything endgame related if we don't have a proc active.

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    Buff Rogues
    less single target damage than mage
    less area damage than mage
    less shield than mage

    its easier to play mage
    mage has better ults
    rogues need to use a mana potion after every skill( when u use 3 skills in a second that 3 mana potions) for mage u use one hundred skills for 1 mana potion
    haste is useless on rogue as bow doesnt get affected
    mage is just better in every way

    only thing really op about war is that it can one shot like every boss in the game with ult

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    Let's start talking about rogue heal ultimate and how useless this thing is

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    Quote Originally Posted by umarrahim View Post
    Warrior should not have gold AoE clear capabilities, that's Mage's job.

    They need to change the meta in such a way that Warrior's are needed for tanking (aggro mobs and bosses), Mages are needed for clearing mobs (high AoE damage), and rogues are needed for killing bosses and minibosses (high single target damage)

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    No one would play war if this was the only purpose for war.

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    Buff warrior in pvp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Encryptions View Post
    No one would play war if this was the only purpose for war.

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    They could make it so that the maps are unplayable without a warrior, gives bosses and mobs a lot of damage which only warriors can tank.

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    imagine having end game gear but still died to the mob lol ....
    lucky sts made polar for war they can 1 shot dm boss if not we will be left behind,just to recall

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentStonoga View Post
    Buff warrior in pvp
    warriors ok in pvp

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    Quote Originally Posted by whatwasit View Post
    warriors ok in pvp
    They're not, 2.4k dex rog easily beats 2.7k str war.
    Pro sorc can also deal with pro war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentStonoga View Post
    They're not, 2.4k dex rog easily beats 2.7k str war.
    Pro sorc can also deal with pro war.
    lol, unskilled crying

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