Class Balance (Non-toxic discussion)

[Theroumag]

I don't think you understand warrior skills bruv...

Axe throw "meh damage"!??? It's the highest dealing skill a warrior has and one you can't miss in any loadout.

Venge and rally cry jugg duplicates??? Vengeful cry is way different as makes you a damage dealing monster instead of a tanking boi, and rally cry is a war tank skill based on armor, not health and rally cry is a skill for team based play while jugg works on yourself.

Learn the class before discussing it's balance thanks

None of what you said changed my stance, Axe through does the most damage on Warrior, compare to rouge's Aimed shot. The difference between cleave and Axe are not that massive.
Vengeful definitely is a strong buff, it's role is similar to Jugg, both make you more survivable, with Blood trading 40% dmg reduction for large damage. Both are an "I activate my rage" skill.

Rallying Cry is in the same vein of buffing, not as much of a similar skill as Jugg/Blood admittedly. I'm going to make a different thread for this with revisions as this was a quick brain dump of ideas

[Theroumag]

None of what you said changed my stance, Axe through does the most damage on Warrior, compare to rouge's Aimed shot. The difference between cleave and Axe are not that massive.
Vengeful definitely is a strong buff, it's role is similar to Jugg, both make you more survivable, with Blood trading 40% dmg reduction for large damage. Both are an "I activate my rage" skill.

Rallying Cry is in the same vein of buffing, not as much of a similar skill as Jugg/Blood admittedly. I'm going to make a different thread for this with revisions as this was a quick brain dump of ideas

I noticed I can't open new threads so here it is
Apologies about the wall of text

The experience of leveling is vastly different for those with mythic gear and without. Legendary geared mages need to get carried through Misty Grotto, and simply do less damage than rouges. Warriors, with okay gear early game do similar enough damage to an early mage... with much MORE damn survivability, and Rouges do good damage midgame and later, but die to groups of mobs. Each class has it's weaknesses and needs each other.. or that's how it should be. I want to talk about class identity and balance, I'll talk about skills first and balancing later as skills are more interesting

1) Warrior:
Warriors Juggernaut charged skill feels great to pull off, you "stand and deliver" massive sweeping cleaves and whirlwinds while being an absolute unit, it feels great... or it would if you couldn't just sip health pots like an addict

His other skills are rather lackluster when it comes to class fantasy/feel

For example the Axe throw, you chuck something at an enemy and it dies from afar in grinding lvl areas, or it's just a single targeted alright damage ability. This is a problem, I would prefer this ability to fire a projectile that pops into an AoE area in which mobs are pulled + debuffed while doing less damage and having slightly shorter range, becoming a full utility spell, a "get over here"

Rallying Cry makes Warriors more of a support class than Mage, which would work better as an "Intimidating Battlecry" debuffing enemies. Curse simply put should be given to Warrior reskinned, with a thematic buff

Vengeful blood feels like a second Juggernaut. Ideally Warriors should be tanking and debuffing, instead of being more of a support class than Mage. Buffing should be part of the mages core identity, and maybe one skill in rouge's kit. In order to make taunts feel meaningful I don't see how that's possible without mobs locking on the way they do. Perhaps switching to highest threat level, ie biggest damaging character.

Having debuffs for warrior classes like mages low damage high AoE spells shine, or supporting rouges high single target on bosses further, where warriors shouldnt be oneshotting but being a team player, making other teammates feel good and saving their butts from the high dmg bosses. As well as allowing mobs to be much stronger, a mobs killing us problem, not an us killing them problem. Something that requires teamwork, debuffs and buffs from classes that have a bigger importance than crazy strong gear procs

2) Mages:

Fireball is in a good place thematically and effectivity wise

Whirlwind felt like a movement only spell to me for the longest time until I tried the point blank upgrade without the dash. As an AoE spell I like point blank but it is ALSO very viable to not upgrade either point blank OR the dash for a frontal AoE cone stun. It feels bad to be slow, it feels bad to blast away warriors pulls with point blank, and it feels bad to pinch points on your meh skill to put into generic flavorless passives (more on that later).

Lighting is just plainly a bad spell, it takes rouges high damage and crit role, slaps a low cooldowns on it, and tells you to sink ten levels of points for a spell that doesn't have a role outside of what rouge should be doing. There is no rouge buff to have a crit skill payoff on other classes either

Ice Bolt, I've only found myself using this to freeze on a boss level health trash mob in Zodias, it's role shouldn't exist for the same reason as Lightning, high single target with a low cooldown. Often because of this I run what I call a spam mage, where you run fireballs with 3s cooldowns, lighting w/ 3s, and Ice w/ 3s and a skill of choice. This built has significantly more damage than other specs while ruining class identity. Lightning should be plain deleted, mana for damage conversion spells feel gross, while Ice Bolt should be a small wave, say frost breath, similar to the frontal attack un-upgraded Gale Force. Gale Force is tricky, its like a redundant Fireball and I don't have any solid improvements for it.

Whew okay, sheilds and heals

Sheilds first: it should be a warrior's job to keep aggro (not that it means much in the high DPS meta + how mobs lock on rn). That said Mage's sheilds would be a fantastic way to give allies a buff that mattered, perhaps not as strong as the individual shield as it is rn of course, but people run pets for shields all the time this would make mages feel better to play and useful when their damage output isn't the highest. Heals aren't worth discussing with pots sadly, put pots to auto and nobody cares.

In general a new buff is needed exclusive to the mage class, one idea Ive had is stun/slow resist instead of the philosophy of every class gets an ability to remove it. "Free Spirited" or the like, paired with a movement buff instead of as a Mage having to spam Gale Forces to stay up with your party, as well as improving class utility as support.
Please for the love of God rework Curse into a viable buff for your party!
Time Shift is alright, no need to fix what isn't broken, though I must say running in to drop a Clock as a Mage feels bad because you're taking Warrior's work and nessisitating to throw that out the window to use your spell

3) Rouge:

Shadow Piercer and Razor shield are cool.

SSS is mage's job, if this had a reduce hit chance by a % debuff upgrade instead of just damage and impact radius upgrades it would feel better, maybe a concussion swirl animation above heads

Aimed Shot... okay where do I begin? Increased crit chance makes me like this spell as I am a big fan of skills that aren't simply trade mana for damage, however that said this is what this spell is. Given that this is rouge this is actually fine in my books.. if noxious bolt wasn't the same exact spell. If noxious bolt was reworked into a DoT "bleed" spell that reapplied on basic attacks (reopen wounds) up to a maximum duration, this would be a far better feeling effect for feel reasons as above and making basic attacks more useful.

Shadow Veil could easily be reworked into one of the coolest skills, given that rouges are squishy, having an invincibility to aggro buff for 2-3 seconds with a critical buff would be stellar, debuffs should be warriors forte, group buffs sorcerer, and a self buff to not get killed and more damage is on theme for rouge

Entangling Trap has such a cool placement animation holy sh*t! Great work
From my playtesting of the skill the main use of it was to hope it proc'd the AoE mob pull and spam it, while running back and forth to hope it gets walked over. I like the skill it takes to have it trigger and area control, that's dope, but could be a hair larger area to pop and larger chance. Good option for wound proc, which I'll outline rn

My MAIN theory-crafted idea for rouge is Wounds/ or bleed for simplicity. I would like to see wounds be rouges main gimmick, not exchanging mana for damage. Imagine a class based proc that would reapply based on skills, say the dagger leap between enemies or basic attacks under the reworked the Shadow Veil (now giving 2-3 seconds of invis crit %+) have a chance to proc "wound"/better bleed, razor shield keeps the Wound debuff timer frozen while in effect (since this proc chance should be hard to proc and maintaining means damage), with Noxious bolt (now bleed bolt or whatnot) would reset to the maximum cooldown. This would make rouges have high single target dps while requiring an active playstyle, like a mini game that isn't press Aimed Shot Nox Bolt and wait until you can trade mana for damage again.


PASSIVES

Having the same ones for each class is boring, they have the potential to be so much more, for example the long idea of the Wounds on rouges, instead of being small improvements to stats or gold luck for crying out loud, masteries and passives could be builts for classes. For example, a thorn proc for mage that makes the reworked party Shield buff into a thorn sheild, reflecting back a portion of damage. Or say "Menacing Aura" for Warriors, basic attacks while in Juggernaut have a chance to taunt (better pulling aggro suggestions)! So many damn cool opportunities instead of more movement speed and 3% crit! Masteries should remain small improvements to your favorite skills like cooldown or mana cost, though some Masteries are definitely better than others honestly


For your average Joe who doesn't have millions or rich friends, making each class have a purpose/feel good to play/and effective TOGETHER would be much more an incentive to play in parties than class teams buffs. Having a unique build for your Toon would be the best thing that happened to this game, gear wouldn't need to have crazy procs to be relevant, but better stat procs as icing on the cake your character is, not the other way around. Maybe even sets of gear making your wound/bleed rouge have longer duration for the affliction, larger range for AoE as mage etc. As of now your gear makes you, not your thought into how you spec'd your class.

To recap my ideas are: Warrior's the one who helps keep everyone alive (threat targeting needed here for relevance) and debuffs to make their for their should be lackluster damage, mages with buffs like sheilds etc and heals for a true support class feel (I don't even like pots period, feels bad to use like you're paying gold to play without a friend) + AoE clearing that Warrior pulls, and Rouges with high dmg output and their wound DoT skills or otherwise, maybe a critical strike build.

The conversation about class balance stems from the fact you don't have much incentive to play as a team if you have big number dmg, and some classes doing less damage than others (AS THEY SHOULD). If the classes worked together in a way that raised the damage and effectiveness of the party as a whole there wouldn't be the bad feeling of "why am I playing this class if it sucks and is useless". Hence all the whining about this and that OP OP OP nerf nerf nerf. Balancing should come from class design first, items second. Love the game, any response if this is useful, considered, or unusable and why would be greatly appreciated

[Cheackezig]

I noticed I can't open new threads so here it is
Apologies about the wall of text

The experience of leveling is vastly different for those with mythic gear and without. Legendary geared mages need to get carried through Misty Grotto, and simply do less damage than rouges. Warriors, with okay gear early game do similar enough damage to an early mage... with much MORE damn survivability, and Rouges do good damage midgame and later, but die to groups of mobs. Each class has it's weaknesses and needs each other.. or that's how it should be. I want to talk about class identity and balance, I'll talk about skills first and balancing later as skills are more interesting

1) Warrior:
Warriors Juggernaut charged skill feels great to pull off, you "stand and deliver" massive sweeping cleaves and whirlwinds while being an absolute unit, it feels great... or it would if you couldn't just sip health pots like an addict

His other skills are rather lackluster when it comes to class fantasy/feel

For example the Axe throw, you chuck something at an enemy and it dies from afar in grinding lvl areas, or it's just a single targeted alright damage ability. This is a problem, I would prefer this ability to fire a projectile that pops into an AoE area in which mobs are pulled + debuffed while doing less damage and having slightly shorter range, becoming a full utility spell, a "get over here"

Rallying Cry makes Warriors more of a support class than Mage, which would work better as an "Intimidating Battlecry" debuffing enemies. Curse simply put should be given to Warrior reskinned, with a thematic buff

Vengeful blood feels like a second Juggernaut. Ideally Warriors should be tanking and debuffing, instead of being more of a support class than Mage. Buffing should be part of the mages core identity, and maybe one skill in rouge's kit. In order to make taunts feel meaningful I don't see how that's possible without mobs locking on the way they do. Perhaps switching to highest threat level, ie biggest damaging character.

Having debuffs for warrior classes like mages low damage high AoE spells shine, or supporting rouges high single target on bosses further, where warriors shouldnt be oneshotting but being a team player, making other teammates feel good and saving their butts from the high dmg bosses. As well as allowing mobs to be much stronger, a mobs killing us problem, not an us killing them problem. Something that requires teamwork, debuffs and buffs from classes that have a bigger importance than crazy strong gear procs

2) Mages:

Fireball is in a good place thematically and effectivity wise

Whirlwind felt like a movement only spell to me for the longest time until I tried the point blank upgrade without the dash. As an AoE spell I like point blank but it is ALSO very viable to not upgrade either point blank OR the dash for a frontal AoE cone stun. It feels bad to be slow, it feels bad to blast away warriors pulls with point blank, and it feels bad to pinch points on your meh skill to put into generic flavorless passives (more on that later).

Lighting is just plainly a bad spell, it takes rouges high damage and crit role, slaps a low cooldowns on it, and tells you to sink ten levels of points for a spell that doesn't have a role outside of what rouge should be doing. There is no rouge buff to have a crit skill payoff on other classes either

Ice Bolt, I've only found myself using this to freeze on a boss level health trash mob in Zodias, it's role shouldn't exist for the same reason as Lightning, high single target with a low cooldown. Often because of this I run what I call a spam mage, where you run fireballs with 3s cooldowns, lighting w/ 3s, and Ice w/ 3s and a skill of choice. This built has significantly more damage than other specs while ruining class identity. Lightning should be plain deleted, mana for damage conversion spells feel gross, while Ice Bolt should be a small wave, say frost breath, similar to the frontal attack un-upgraded Gale Force. Gale Force is tricky, its like a redundant Fireball and I don't have any solid improvements for it.

Whew okay, sheilds and heals

Sheilds first: it should be a warrior's job to keep aggro (not that it means much in the high DPS meta + how mobs lock on rn). That said Mage's sheilds would be a fantastic way to give allies a buff that mattered, perhaps not as strong as the individual shield as it is rn of course, but people run pets for shields all the time this would make mages feel better to play and useful when their damage output isn't the highest. Heals aren't worth discussing with pots sadly, put pots to auto and nobody cares.

In general a new buff is needed exclusive to the mage class, one idea Ive had is stun/slow resist instead of the philosophy of every class gets an ability to remove it. "Free Spirited" or the like, paired with a movement buff instead of as a Mage having to spam Gale Forces to stay up with your party, as well as improving class utility as support.
Please for the love of God rework Curse into a viable buff for your party!
Time Shift is alright, no need to fix what isn't broken, though I must say running in to drop a Clock as a Mage feels bad because you're taking Warrior's work and nessisitating to throw that out the window to use your spell

3) Rouge:

Shadow Piercer and Razor shield are cool.

SSS is mage's job, if this had a reduce hit chance by a % debuff upgrade instead of just damage and impact radius upgrades it would feel better, maybe a concussion swirl animation above heads

Aimed Shot... okay where do I begin? Increased crit chance makes me like this spell as I am a big fan of skills that aren't simply trade mana for damage, however that said this is what this spell is. Given that this is rouge this is actually fine in my books.. if noxious bolt wasn't the same exact spell. If noxious bolt was reworked into a DoT "bleed" spell that reapplied on basic attacks (reopen wounds) up to a maximum duration, this would be a far better feeling effect for feel reasons as above and making basic attacks more useful.

Shadow Veil could easily be reworked into one of the coolest skills, given that rouges are squishy, having an invincibility to aggro buff for 2-3 seconds with a critical buff would be stellar, debuffs should be warriors forte, group buffs sorcerer, and a self buff to not get killed and more damage is on theme for rouge

Entangling Trap has such a cool placement animation holy sh*t! Great work
From my playtesting of the skill the main use of it was to hope it proc'd the AoE mob pull and spam it, while running back and forth to hope it gets walked over. I like the skill it takes to have it trigger and area control, that's dope, but could be a hair larger area to pop and larger chance. Good option for wound proc, which I'll outline rn

My MAIN theory-crafted idea for rouge is Wounds/ or bleed for simplicity. I would like to see wounds be rouges main gimmick, not exchanging mana for damage. Imagine a class based proc that would reapply based on skills, say the dagger leap between enemies or basic attacks under the reworked the Shadow Veil (now giving 2-3 seconds of invis crit %+) have a chance to proc "wound"/better bleed, razor shield keeps the Wound debuff timer frozen while in effect (since this proc chance should be hard to proc and maintaining means damage), with Noxious bolt (now bleed bolt or whatnot) would reset to the maximum cooldown. This would make rouges have high single target dps while requiring an active playstyle, like a mini game that isn't press Aimed Shot Nox Bolt and wait until you can trade mana for damage again.


PASSIVES

Having the same ones for each class is boring, they have the potential to be so much more, for example the long idea of the Wounds on rouges, instead of being small improvements to stats or gold luck for crying out loud, masteries and passives could be builts for classes. For example, a thorn proc for mage that makes the reworked party Shield buff into a thorn sheild, reflecting back a portion of damage. Or say "Menacing Aura" for Warriors, basic attacks while in Juggernaut have a chance to taunt (better pulling aggro suggestions)! So many damn cool opportunities instead of more movement speed and 3% crit! Masteries should remain small improvements to your favorite skills like cooldown or mana cost, though some Masteries are definitely better than others honestly


For your average Joe who doesn't have millions or rich friends, making each class have a purpose/feel good to play/and effective TOGETHER would be much more an incentive to play in parties than class teams buffs. Having a unique build for your Toon would be the best thing that happened to this game, gear wouldn't need to have crazy procs to be relevant, but better stat procs as icing on the cake your character is, not the other way around. Maybe even sets of gear making your wound/bleed rouge have longer duration for the affliction, larger range for AoE as mage etc. As of now your gear makes you, not your thought into how you spec'd your class.

To recap my ideas are: Warrior's the one who helps keep everyone alive (threat targeting needed here for relevance) and debuffs to make their for their should be lackluster damage, mages with buffs like sheilds etc and heals for a true support class feel (I don't even like pots period, feels bad to use like you're paying gold to play without a friend) + AoE clearing that Warrior pulls, and Rouges with high dmg output and their wound DoT skills or otherwise, maybe a critical strike build.

The conversation about class balance stems from the fact you don't have much incentive to play as a team if you have big number dmg, and some classes doing less damage than others (AS THEY SHOULD). If the classes worked together in a way that raised the damage and effectiveness of the party as a whole there wouldn't be the bad feeling of "why am I playing this class if it sucks and is useless". Hence all the whining about this and that OP OP OP nerf nerf nerf. Balancing should come from class design first, items second. Love the game, any response if this is useful, considered, or unusable and why would be greatly appreciated

1. Kind of an unrelated point but please for the love of god it's ROGUE not rouge

2. If you can't understand that juggernout, vengeful blood and rallying cry are different and have different uses then you're doing something wrong. You have multiple different moments where the different skills are needed, there is no need to revamp them. You're looking at the skills only from a weak pve standpoint but what if you got strong gears or if you pvp? Then you'll take a whole different approach and skills like axe throw are insanely useful. If you got strong enough gears, vengeful blood is a way better option then juggernout as you can just tank damage without jugg and instead focus on dealing even more damage yourself.
And think about solo players, if a war is supposed to tank only how is a war supposed to level without friends? I already encountered that as a solo warrior certain areas where impossible to beat (I'm looking at you, dreamscape boss with the insane regeneration), so taking the ability to actually deal damage away from a war is kinda forcing the warrior to be a "I need a team" only class.

3. I agree with that the gameplay is more important then the crazy procs, but that is just a problem with mythic weapons in itself. The appearance of mythic weapons threw every balance we had off the charts. Pvp, festerfang outpost, pve all have totally changed the gameplay we've had, and made certain playstyles way harder or just annoying (like mob clearing) while slaying bosses is now a cakewalk. That isn't because of the class skills, but the unnessecary overpoweredness of the new mythic weapons and the damage buff every class has been given.


In short, don't change up the skills. It's an idea that 1. won't happen since it'll change the game upside down too much and 2. is not nessecary since the fault doesn't lie in the skills.

[dualray]

Back in the watcher tomb day, it was pretty balanced where we have warrior tank in the front and taunt mobs, we have mage do controls of mobs and rogue so major kills.

I missed it; it was real team works


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Theroumag]

1. Kind of an unrelated point but please for the love of god it's ROGUE not rouge

2. If you can't understand that juggernout, vengeful blood and rallying cry are different and have different uses then you're doing something wrong. You have multiple different moments where the different skills are needed, there is no need to revamp them. You're looking at the skills only from a weak pve standpoint but what if you got strong gears or if you pvp? Then you'll take a whole different approach and skills like axe throw are insanely useful. If you got strong enough gears, vengeful blood is a way better option then juggernout as you can just tank damage without jugg and instead focus on dealing even more damage yourself.
And think about solo players, if a war is supposed to tank only how is a war supposed to level without friends? I already encountered that as a solo warrior certain areas where impossible to beat (I'm looking at you, dreamscape boss with the insane regeneration), so taking the ability to actually deal damage away from a war is kinda forcing the warrior to be a "I need a team" only class.

3. I agree with that the gameplay is more important then the crazy procs, but that is just a problem with mythic weapons in itself. The appearance of mythic weapons threw every balance we had off the charts. Pvp, festerfang outpost, pve all have totally changed the gameplay we've had, and made certain playstyles way harder or just annoying (like mob clearing) while slaying bosses is now a cakewalk. That isn't because of the class skills, but the unnessecary overpoweredness of the new mythic weapons and the damage buff every class has been given.


In short, don't change up the skills. It's an idea that 1. won't happen since it'll change the game upside down too much and 2. is not nessecary since the fault doesn't lie in the skills.

I replied to another warrior saying a similar thing about Jugg/Blood and i call them the same based on feel, but you've convinced me that they have their purpose, I like the idea of Juggernaut more than I do a raw powerup + pots late game, if Venge was a Curse-ish meaning your power scales with the attack you take it would be cooler and better thematically. I wasn't clear enough I guess that I want warrior to be a debuff class. Ideally all classes should be party-only classes with actual weaknesses, warriors should be tanks and debuffs relying on Mage and Rogue (haha), Mages AoE and buffs to raise up damage of warrior and clear trash mobs while not excelling at clearing bosses or tanking if you could imagine that lol, and of course Rogue (heh) being great at bosses but getting overwhelmed by hordes of mobs.

You bring up Endgame and PvP, my suggestions would exactly help this in particular as there would be synergy, instead of some classes melting mobs more efficient than another. I would personally enjoy giving my teammate a huge damage boost and have them be a god on the battlefield from our teamwork than gears with a price tag. Take away the mythic weapons I still maintain that these changes would make the game more balanced that A) each class has a valuable role making the weaknesses reasons to party up. B) More diversity in build letting people have the playstyle they enjoy C) A good avenue to add new gears that are good because of the playstyle diversity they add/enable instead of being good bc of procs. I'm trying to kill two birds with one stone here. That said, if the overall power level of the individual falls while the pl of the group rises mobs that are fun to clear because it's an actual task, that requires some thought (hopefully we see some better mob design lol) will no longer be boring, and bosses won't be obliterated on sight, not without friends. This is an MMO, solo leveling shouldn't be the norm. When it comes to balancing for PvP, it should be considered later, and the content first. That said, PvP as a team with a tank debuffing enemies, mages hitting 2 for 1 fireballs on the debuffed guys, etc is more fun than individually tuning each class to be self sufficient. Thanks for reading and the reply Cheackezig 👍

[Theroumag]

I replied to another warrior saying a similar thing about Jugg/Blood and i call them the same based on feel, but you've convinced me that they have their purpose, I like the idea of Juggernaut more than I do a raw powerup + pots late game, if Venge was a Curse-ish meaning your power scales with the attack you take it would be cooler and better thematically. I wasn't clear enough I guess that I want warrior to be a debuff class. Ideally all classes should be party-only classes with actual weaknesses, warriors should be tanks and debuffs relying on Mage and Rogue (haha), Mages AoE and buffs to raise up damage of warrior and clear trash mobs while not excelling at clearing bosses or tanking if you could imagine that lol, and of course Rogue (heh) being great at bosses but getting overwhelmed by hordes of mobs.

You bring up Endgame and PvP, my suggestions would exactly help this in particular as there would be synergy, instead of some classes melting mobs more efficient than another. I would personally enjoy giving my teammate a huge damage boost and have them be a god on the battlefield from our teamwork than gears with a price tag. Take away the mythic weapons I still maintain that these changes would make the game more balanced that A) each class has a valuable role making the weaknesses reasons to party up. B) More diversity in build letting people have the playstyle they enjoy C) A good avenue to add new gears that are good because of the playstyle diversity they add/enable instead of being good bc of procs. I'm trying to kill two birds with one stone here. That said, if the overall power level of the individual falls while the pl of the group rises mobs that are fun to clear because it's an actual task, that requires some thought (hopefully we see some better mob design lol) will no longer be boring, and bosses won't be obliterated on sight, not without friends. This is an MMO, solo leveling shouldn't be the norm. When it comes to balancing for PvP, it should be considered later, and the content first. That said, PvP as a team with a tank debuffing enemies, mages hitting 2 for 1 fireballs on the debuffed guys, etc is more fun than individually tuning each class to be self sufficient. Thanks for reading and the reply Cheackezig 👍

That said if anyone else has feedback on the other Mage and Rogue changes that would be appreciated. Cheackezig, you said that this would upheave the game too much, the team is already working on a skill revamp, it was mentioned in a different thread. I'm throwing out my pov 🤷

[Theroumag]

Aquarius's icon cooldown for Mage would be perfect to build upon for buffs from parties with icons, vs the small 25% damage elixir etc

[Tekila]

I think that a great idea right now about the game is to add a new game mode for timed elite maps based on GW2 timed dungeon where you have to clean a portion of mobs and all bosses to clear the map also in this mod add buffs for the maps every time they get a lvl on the map like upgrading keys in wow that would create a game where team play and strat is needed. Something we have to know is that we don’t play solo because our characters are too op, we play solo because the game doesn’t need us to play in party except if we want to finish the map faster.

Adding 2 specialisations for each class can be fun too like depending on the weappon used you change your playstyle, rogue is fun for me it has 2 specs like Pisces for cleaning mobs and Mariano for bosses, anyways it is a pure dmg class that can clear mobs and kill bosses.

War can be given a tanky weappon (shield) that helps him take dmg, keep agro and cleave dmg (the ebon aegis was a good exemple of it or the skull axe and aegis). And a all out one as sword or axe that deals more single damages output but only single target taunting too for boss.

Idk what can be fun for mage I never played it.

Another possibility is a rework of the game to giving people a 5th active spell or more passives not related to gear. But the unique gearing system is something I like in arcane like depending on your gear you have another gameplay.


Envoyé de mon iPhone en utilisant Tapatalk

[shadowronn]

Or we could start over from scratch with a new AL 2.0 game, so we do t have this giant mess of endgame.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I feel like this would kinda have the implications of deflation, if you know what all happens then people would not act the way they normally would. People would hold on to rarities because they know it'll go up in price and all that. AL 2.0 but only game mechanics and stuff would be nice, new non-recycled vanities and pets and stuff so people play the way they are supposed to.

[Immortal_Blood]

Ayyy buff taunt for warriors arooo buff taunt for warriors arooo

Also.. this thread is very important …please respect.

I’ll see u in honovr pvp, soon.

[profmsb]

its like evg rn...just try play rndom elite sunken...if no mythic war..took long time to kill mb n boss...if only two plyer but have mythic war...much fastest to clear the map that full 4 pt without mythic war...just wait n see few month later..it will be like old evg...

[Tekila]

its like evg rn...just try play rndom elite sunken...if no mythic war..took long time to kill mb n boss...if only two plyer but have mythic war...much fastest to clear the map that full 4 pt without mythic war...just wait n see few month later..it will be like old evg...

Actually the faster way to clean elite sunken is having wars with mythic yes better having both for killing boss for sure.
But I’ll explain you that warrior is difficult and situational when you play it.
On one hand it is not just having some random wars you need a « GOOD » war with decent gear and mephisto or heroic tad or arcane wereweger slots on arcane ability first. Second you need the war to charge his ultimate even if it’s so hard to clean mobs for warrior. Third he has to time perfectly his mythic weapon proc, his VB if he needs it, his ultimate and the AA of the pet. Fourth and finally he has to hit the boss with the mythic proc.
It is not an easy process that every war can do you have contraints of gear, proc and ability timing, you also have to hit the target cause you can miss on the game due to random reasons.

On the other hand mage and rogue mythic weapons are really fun and enjoyable. They both have one for cleaving damage that gives dmg augmentation buff and one for single damage output that deals massive dmg to single target when warrior only has two for single target damage (Polaris has a bit of AOE dmg but nothing really useful for cleaning), both rogue and mage has easier procs uses than warrior’s one on mythic but warrior players just try to find a way to make it usable.
Now the reason why warriors are performing well on élite zodias especially sunk fleet is that the zone is about mini boss and boss killing and they just decided to make the warrior a boss killer with 2 mythic weapons with that purpose it is not that they are good it is that they find a way to use what they are given.

I played with some rogues and mage with 2k dex and intel and they are truly performing far better than warriors on mini boss killing, also they didn’t really need my intervention as a warrior to kill the boss in 30 sec with their mythics.


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[Immortal_Blood]

Actually the faster way to clean elite sunken is having wars with mythic yes better having both for killing boss for sure.
But I’ll explain you that warrior is difficult and situational when you play it.
On one hand it is not just having some random wars you need a « GOOD » war with decent gear and mephisto or heroic tad or arcane wereweger slots on arcane ability first. Second you need the war to charge his ultimate even if it’s so hard to clean mobs for warrior. Third he has to time perfectly his mythic weapon proc, his VB if he needs it, his ultimate and the AA of the pet. Fourth and finally he has to hit the boss with the mythic proc.
It is not an easy process that every war can do you have contraints of gear, proc and ability timing, you also have to hit the target cause you can miss on the game due to random reasons.

On the other hand mage and rogue mythic weapons are really fun and enjoyable. They both have one for cleaving damage that gives dmg augmentation buff and one for single damage output that deals massive dmg to single target when warrior only has two for single target damage (Polaris has a bit of AOE dmg but nothing really useful for cleaning), both rogue and mage has easier procs uses than warrior’s one on mythic but warrior players just try to find a way to make it usable.
Now the reason why warriors are performing well on élite zodias especially sunk fleet is that the zone is about mini boss and boss killing and they just decided to make the warrior a boss killer with 2 mythic weapons with that purpose it is not that they are good it is that they find a way to use what they are given.

I played with some rogues and mage with 2k dex and intel and they are truly performing far better than warriors on mini boss killing, also they didn’t really need my intervention as a warrior to kill the boss in 30 sec with their mythics.


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mage and rogue are more enjoyable for me to play.. since my team keeps dying when i play as waarrior, im mehhhhhhhhhhhhh DELeteeee!!

[Tekila]

mage and rogue are more enjoyable for me to play.. since my team keeps dying when i play as waarrior, im mehhhhhhhhhhhhh DELeteeee!!

Glad to hear that I specially love mage rn cause of the combo procs that it allows it is the FUN gameplay for arcane legends actually, rogue’s Pisces is really cool to.


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[tapsykrete]

for me, i think we need new skill or new set of skill, instead of always have new proc for gear or weapon that always hard for dev to make balanced for each class,
why not make the skill more useful, like u can combo your skill from 1, 2 to 3 skill, then make something big impact or give high damage, aoe, heal or shield effects etc. for each class.
so maybe the stun,dodge, taunt, tick, reflect, etc make more useful too. (like u can cancel the combo when u get stun.)
then make the weapon/gear give some useful skill like in arcane bow or gun, chances triple shot per hit, arcane ice sword chances can ice per hit. or other skill chances like poison tic, can burned enemy, can fear, or maybe weapon have chances to disable to use skill for 3 sec.(just like old legendary weapon skill proc some have this skill)
also this kind of skill weapon can prevent combo too for your main skill.

sorry for my grammar but i hope you guys understand my point

[Tekila]

for me, i think we need new skill or new set of skill, instead of always have new proc for gear or weapon that always hard for dev to make balanced for each class,
why not make the skill more useful, like u can combo your skill from 1, 2 to 3 skill, then make something big impact or give high damage, aoe, heal or shield effects etc. for each class.
so maybe the stun,dodge, taunt, tick, reflect, etc make more useful too. (like u can cancel the combo when u get stun.)
then make the weapon/gear give some useful skill like in arcane bow or gun, chances triple shot per hit, arcane ice sword chances can ice per hit. or other skill chances like poison tic, can burned enemy, can fear, or maybe weapon have chances to disable to use skill for 3 sec.(just like old legendary weapon skill proc some have this skill)
also this kind of skill weapon can prevent combo too for your main skill.

sorry for my grammar but i hope you guys understand my point

I agree with you at a certain point.
Like having new skills could be great to balance the classes instead of giving it all in the weapons but I like the fact that gear procs and sets change completely your gameplay.
As an example getting a 5th active skill would up the game to a higher level but idk if the players are ready for that.
Also the possibility to combo proc things is just amazing gathering the game to next level also war with skull axe and aegis combo was really fun and squishy but something like combo skull axe and pola or nepta or saber would be great. Or combo dug dag and Pisces or Mariano. So we would have another perspective of gameplay that is based on combo proc like on mage.


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[Tekila]

I think that what I like the most is some haste and bonus damage proc. That you can pair with other things.


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