Feedback: Achievements II (Standard)

[Analytical]

The way Assomer put it, it's the first problem you'll have.
I have 2 devices, most players have more than 2 devices, it's not uncommon. You can easily create 2 accounts and pretend to help another account. Easily manipulated.
On the other hand, why force us to do it? I help friends when I can and when they need it.
Forcing ourselves or forcing people to receive help will not be pleasant at all for anyone, nor will it be challenging.
There is also not as many people, as it seems, willing to receive help, only at the beginning of the sessions, this is more a merit of the guilds.

Apply this same statement to all other useless APS you guys have done. Why forced yourself to do it just for the points?

Not a single achievement point is a must, so no one is forcing you guys to do it in the first place. But guess what, you guys still decide to do it to compete with one another or for whatever reasons.

If the useless aps (the 10,000 pvp kills) existed and you guys have been okay with doing it for so long, why not for the helping aspect? Just Imagine if they started off with making this "helping 100 people" instead of this pointless "10,000 kills". You guys would have done it either way. We don't need a genius to tell us which leaves more positive impact for the game while taking into consideration of the futile dummy farm arguement.

[PatD]

Double XP and it takes 1 day to level up 3 alts to 71lv on hardcore mode. It's easy.

yes and we all did it, but why put more HC Aps? it is completely unrelated to our main character, i think that the one we have (lvl to 71) is plenty enough hehe

[Nocturnus]

Apply this same statement to all other useless APS you guys have done. Why forced yourself to do it just for the points?

Not a single achievement point is a must, so no one is forcing you guys to do it in the first place. But guess what, you guys still decide to do it to compete with one another or for whatever reasons.

If the useless aps (the 10,000 pvp kills) existed and you guys have been okay with doing it for so long, why not for the helping aspect? Just Imagine if they started off with making this "helping 100 people" instead of this pointless "10,000 kills". You guys would have done it either way. We don't need a genius to tell us which leaves more positive impact for the game while taking into consideration of the futile dummy farm arguement.

I already have all the pvp aps done, I didn't enjoy making them one bit and yet I have asked countless times, even here, to remove or modify them. Because we are aware of how most people farm it.
Enjoy making most of the current aps and the aps proposed in this post look nice.
Because I can make them by myself.
As I already stated in one of the points of my previous comment. And you seem to be deliberately ignoring all the points.
It's not an app that depends only on me, I have to wait for a player to join the game or decide to create a new character, after he needs help, etc. I MUST FORCE THE PLAYER TO GET MY HELP, or sit on a city or map and harass people, or pay them, etc. Do you see the point?
And of course I'm going to be forced to do it if I want to compete for an LB.
At this point any comment from someone who has not thought of or never made an aps is useless.
Most of the aps can be done on your own, only a few are the subject of a fictitious farm and this is one of them if it is implemented in the proposed way.
I just watch a lot of drama.

[PatD]

Oh and also!

Please reduce those new elite portal aps to 100 instead of 1000!

What you all think about this?

[Analytical]

I already have all the pvp aps done, I didn't enjoy making them one bit and yet I have asked countless times, even here, to remove or modify them. Because we are aware of how most people farm it.
Enjoy making most of the current aps and the aps proposed in this post look nice.
Because I can make them by myself.
As I already stated in one of the points of my previous comment. And you seem to be deliberately ignoring all the points.
It's not an app that depends only on me, I have to wait for a player to join the game or decide to create a new character, after he needs help, etc. I MUST FORCE THE PLAYER TO GET MY HELP, or sit on a city or map and harass people, or pay them, etc. Do you see the point?
And of course I'm going to be forced to do it if I want to compete for an LB.
At this point any comment from someone who has not thought of or never made an aps is useless.
Most of the aps can be done on your own, only a few are the subject of a fictitious farm and this is one of them if it is implemented in the proposed way.
I just watch a lot of drama.

Why call it an achievement if you can do it all by yourself? You guys feel proud really killing yourself 10,000 times?

Nowhere did I claim or ask you guys to force others to receive your help. There are already many laying in towns asking us to help them through a difficult map or asking for gold. There's no need to force anyone. I'm not an advocate for the forcing aspect. All I'm saying is to make these aps more useful not useless if they need to exist.

In other words, I'm not here to enforce the culture of helping, but to reward those who actually help others with aps points. This way not only the leaderboard would be a little more interesting instead of all same aps points (as not everyone get to fulfil the helping 10, 50, 100 people aps, so that's the challenge), and even if eveyone in leaderboard got the helping aps by dummy farming like how they did for pvp kills, at least here, there would be a percentage of actual legit people (not dummy account) who actually benefit from this compared to that of pvp kills.

In fact, I'm very interested to hear good arguments not the repetitive, mindless arguement on dummy accounts. It's easy to deny a suggestion, that's what many are doing here, the real challenge lies in how to make an idea work. That's what I want to hear. If you can't provide any of those, I rest my case here and would wait for others to give more responses.

Had I not been clear, I'm supporting the helping aspect in aps. I can be open with the "how" it is gonna be granted, nor necessarily through leveling up others. Can be any creative ways to make it viable and less exploitative. (Would be totally stupid to think we can prevent bots or dummy farmers so I ain't gonna waste my time discussing on that or dismissing a good idea - not just this but any good ideas - simply because of this pathetic reason)

[asommers]

A few of comments based on what I've read so far:

• Ignore the number thresholds for now. These can always be tweaked to make sense.
• Every achievement category seems to have achievements players want to keep or remove for their own reasons or there's an inherent value placed (time/money/notoriety). For example, player A will happily farm PvE kills but doesn't want to own a house or craft, but player B is the opposite.
• I wasn't necessarily expecting players to complete every achievement, but if they do, that would be quite the achievement!

At this point, it may be safest to just add a smaller subset of new achievements and keep all of the old ones.

-ALS

[Nocturnus]

Why call it an achievement if you can do it all by yourself? You guys feel proud really killing yourself 10,000 times?

Nowhere did I claim or ask you guys to force others to receive your help. There are already many laying in towns asking us to help them through a difficult map or asking for gold. There's no need to force anyone. I'm not an advocate for the forcing aspect. All I'm saying is to make these aps more useful not useless if they need to exist.

In other words, I'm not here to enforce the culture of helping, but to reward those who actually help others with aps points. This way not only the leaderboard would be a little more interesting instead of all same aps points (as not everyone get to fulfil the helping 10, 50, 100 people aps, so that's the challenge), and even if eveyone in leaderboard got the helping aps by dummy farming like how they did for pvp kills, at least here, there would be a percentage of actual legit people (not dummy account) who actually benefit from this compared to that of pvp kills.

In fact, I'm very interested to hear good arguments not the repetitive, mindless arguement on dummy accounts. It's easy to deny a suggestion, that's what many are doing here, the real challenge lies in how to make an idea work. That's what I want to hear. If you can't provide any of those, I rest my case here and would wait for others to give more responses.

Had I not been clear, I'm supporting the helping aspect in aps. I can be open with the "how" it is gonna be granted, nor necessarily through leveling up others. Can be any creative ways to make it viable and less exploitative. (Would be totally stupid to think we can prevent bots or dummy farmers so I ain't gonna waste my time discussing on that or dismissing a good idea - not just this but any good ideas - simply because of this pathetic reason)

Try to read a bit before tagging me in your comment.
I literally said they should remove pvp aps in the first sentence.
Finish with a you here, respectfully, always is like talking to a wall.

[intruders]

In my opinion mentoring idea is difficult to make live because:
- people who don't care about LB and aps won't be interested in this activity anyway and that's the majority of players
- people who aim for LB typically prefer effective play style and I don't see them waiting for an opportunity to help someone by offering help in towns or waiting when someone asks. Therefore to get such aps faster they will just make dummy characters like for pvp kills
- as other mentioned leveling is done through xp quests now and almost nobody grinds maps for xp

As for the argument that if people been doing pvp kills then mentoring also should not be a problem - the thing is pvp kills aps are existing ones and considered as a mistake by the most and bringing another aps with similar grounds is even a bigger mistake.

That said, I like any incentive to encourage people helping each other. It's just that doing that via leveling is not a good idea.

@analytical you asked for ideas, here you go:
- Team player AP, granted for completing N maps while in full party having all 3 classes in it.
- Helping hand AP, granted for N aps received by other players in your party while you already have that aps.
- Care giver AP, granted for N maps while in party with players having lower lever than you.

For all aps of this sort level gap should not exceed 10 levels. This way making dummies will be too expensive in terms of time and effort.

[Analytical]

In my opinion mentoring idea is difficult to make live because:
- people who don't care about LB and aps won't be interested in this activity anyway and that's the majority of players
- people who aim for LB typically prefer effective play style and I don't see them waiting for an opportunity to help someone by offering help in towns or waiting when someone asks. Therefore to get such aps faster they will just make dummy characters like for pvp kills
- as other mentioned leveling is done through xp quests now and almost nobody grinds maps for xp

As for the argument that if people been doing pvp kills then mentoring also should not be a problem - the thing is pvp kills aps are existing ones and considered as a mistake by the most and bringing another aps with similar grounds is even a bigger mistake.

That said, I like any incentive to encourage people helping each other. It's just that doing that via leveling is not a good idea.

@analytical you asked for ideas, here you go:
- Team player AP, granted for completing N maps while in full party having all 3 classes in it.
- Helping hand AP, granted for N aps received by other players in your party while you already have that aps.
- Care giver AP, granted for N maps while in party with players having lower lever than you.

For all aps of this sort level gap should not exceed 10 levels. This way making dummies will be too expensive in terms of time and effort.

Really like how you are disagreeing, good points. Definitely a good move to establish common grounds despite our disagreements (:

Will wait to see more responses on the helping aspect if they are any. In fact I outlined 3 main ideas for helping aps not just leveling but I guess it's the easiest to implement so asommers chose that maybe xd

[Nocturnus]

A few of comments based on what I've read so far:

• Ignore the number thresholds for now. These can always be tweaked to make sense.
• Every achievement category seems to have achievements players want to keep or remove for their own reasons or there's an inherent value placed (time/money/notoriety). For example, player A will happily farm PvE kills but doesn't want to own a house or craft, but player B is the opposite.
• I wasn't necessarily expecting players to complete every achievement, but if they do, that would be quite the achievement!

At this point, it may be safest to just add a smaller subset of new achievements and keep all of the old ones.

-ALS

I have all the current aps, except the ones for zodias, I work on them.
I liked most of the previous aps and the aps proposed in this post.
It just seems too much to me some of the proposed crazy numbers.
Also it doesn't bother me at all if they remove aps, like pvp, hc or etc.
Also there should be some relationship between usefulness, achievement and the time it might take to do them.
Farming 50k of chest could be useful to me, opening 10k of awaken would not make much sense, nor would upgrading an item 10k times, it really doesn't seem possible.
The aps based on items or gold that you have does not bother me at all, it is based on the farm and the gold comes from the farm. The resistance of the people to carry out these aps, are obvious reasons.
But only those who really want to compete in one lb. would be required.
Also as I said in a previous comment, any comment from someone who has never made an ap or tried it, is a useless comment.
The aps should be difficult and challenging, but possible. Not a 1 day thing.

[|Ares|]

A few of comments based on what I've read so far:

• Ignore the number thresholds for now. These can always be tweaked to make sense.
• Every achievement category seems to have achievements players want to keep or remove for their own reasons or there's an inherent value placed (time/money/notoriety). For example, player A will happily farm PvE kills but doesn't want to own a house or craft, but player B is the opposite.
• I wasn't necessarily expecting players to complete every achievement, but if they do, that would be quite the achievement!

At this point, it may be safest to just add a smaller subset of new achievements and keep all of the old ones.

-ALS

Keep all exisiting ones, add some new ones and things will be fine. Exactly that. +1

[|Ares|]

Oh and also!

Please reduce those new elite portal aps to 100 instead of 1000!

What you all think about this?

I think the people that already have completed at least one of the portals would disagree with this. Gotta put some work towards it honestly.

[PatD]

I think the people that already have completed at least one of the portals would disagree with this. Gotta put some work towards it honestly.

When you can always play for long time and make party it is true, just need put some work, but when you can only log in and out but never for long period, those aps are a pain tbh, all other aps i can do at my own pace except some few that we need party but those are not need to be done 1000 times!

Even Vardan elite portal i was able to solo if no one in map, no need take time to make good party so i was able to do few here and there

[caabarader]

I think the people that already have completed at least one of the portals would disagree with this. Gotta put some work towards it honestly.

Yes, for zodias portals i disagree on removing 1k kill aps, for future maps/expansion i agree reducing the amount needed on *portals* since u can't do it the time u want(like when portal closed)..

[Salvatory]

--my English is not very good--

QUEST: ok, it is understandable and necessary as it is the story of arlor.

PETS: This is a very delicate point, for several reasons I would say no to this aps.
the way to get these (heroic) pets is very limited, once a year is when we get them some.
having to improve this exorbitant amount of pets to max lvl is really illusory to imagine this when you know that these 98% of pets are opened and discarded in our stable, and having to level them for nothing makes no sense since it's something almost this is totally useless

PvE Kills: You've spent years and years fighting the use of bots, you've eliminated tabletop pve kill competitions for that reason, and now an incentive to do it again.

Slots: auc 50 or 100 slots (targeting something that can go up to 250 currently)

Item: Crafting 10,000 items depending on the exact way requested can be something achievable.

Jewel: Create 50 perfect jewels? these gems usually exceed 40m one which is extremely heavy spent gold, it's 178,767 broken gems to make one (flawless gem). my complete set doesn't support half of those 50 perfect gems you want, I dare say the game doesn't have that amount of gems to make 50 perfect gems out of 10 players of each class.

looted: Adds chest gold to this count

Mentoring: Definitely not the aps that obliges and depends on other players. aps should not contain the obligation to have other players to be completed, it is my achievement, it should depend exclusively on me. this is notable with pvp aps, flag aps and zodias aps where other players are needed and it is the aps that broke the game

[Hamburgerking]

My main issue with what you suggested in the original post is with what you decided to take out. I know you had some other comments that this won't be relevant to, but to the main post specifically: I don't think you should take out the achievement point, campaign, or level rewards. As for the achievement points and level rewards, these mark something to look forward too, specifically the titles awarded from aps. If you made them worth 0 points and kept the titles, plus maybe add a title for reaching different level marks, it would be fine. I just know that the 30k aps title was what pushed me to actually start playing the game. Without pushing for this, I would still be at around 10k aps and probably wouldn't be maxed. It gave me something to grind for, and while I'm not as proud of 30k aps now, I still use the title quite often specifically because of this. As for level rewards, they should stay, and be worth points. They help motivate players to reach endgame, which is what almost all events and new content is targeted at. Campaign should stay because it is campaign. For one, soo many titles come from killing different bosses. But its also just important milestones. Not every aps should have to be a grind to unlock.

Side note: If you plan on deleting pet aps/house aps/anything else that can be bought- instead of fully deleting them please, please, please leave the achievements there, worth 0 points, and add more titles for reaching each.

[Salvatory]

A few of comments based on what I've read so far:

• Ignore the number thresholds for now. These can always be tweaked to make sense.
• Every achievement category seems to have achievements players want to keep or remove for their own reasons or there's an inherent value placed (time/money/notoriety). For example, player A will happily farm PvE kills but doesn't want to own a house or craft, but player B is the opposite.
• I wasn't necessarily expecting players to complete every achievement, but if they do, that would be quite the achievement!

At this point, it may be safest to just add a smaller subset of new achievements and keep all of the old ones.

-ALS

I'm in the aps player rating I don't really care about the aps that are applied as long as it doesn't force me to depend on other players for the completion of the aps because it's my achievement it should only be demanded by me and if that's the case I choose to have more people with me in the race.
examples are pvp aps and flags that for many years were inaccessible mainly the flag.
Acho que ninguém rodando aps pediria 10k para usar awak, isso não faz o menor sentido, com 5k awak eu faria um set bd, INT, dano, mana ignorada, velocidade. Não faz sentido pedir alguns números.
maybe we need to pay attention to who makes suggestions? or maybe having someone from sts who actually plays the game would be really nice.
(although the result is not instantaneous, i think we should have someone from sts who actually plays, just like we had before. the feed back would be more real)
It would be better to understand, I often come across things that make me believe that you don't care much about the health of your precious players.

[aikl]

I would prefer APs related to team work similar to lichly consternation, your fly is down or pantless hydra rather than 1M PVE kills or maxing out pets/slots

[|Ares|]

I would prefer APs related to team work similar to lichly consternation, your fly is down or pantless hydra rather than 1M PVE kills or maxing out pets/slots

+1, I would also like to see those kinda achievements as well.

[PatD]

I would prefer APs related to team work similar to lichly consternation, your fly is down or pantless hydra rather than 1M PVE kills or maxing out pets/slots

+1, I would also like to see those kinda achievements as well.

Me too but we would need many! we do those so fast!!