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Thread: Charge mechanic + pvp

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    Default Charge mechanic + pvp

    I'm not suggesting they change arcane legends into anything that ive said.

    no I'm not a developer so i don't know whats best for the game. i know people will quit arcane legends if it was molded into something different.

    what's good for me doesn't mean it will necessarily be good for you. but everything that ive said allows for the game mechanics to keep growing with endless possibilities.

    what they cant make up for in new mechanics they make up for in events, housing,vanities, achievements and etc. they're leaning more into things and events that have nothing to do with game mechanics.

    the only examples of these style events we have so far are racing and fishing. i expect to see more of these style events in the near future. it's actually really smart and makes more sense. these events require no gear so this type of content is far more accessible.

    people have said that im not trying to add upon whats currently in the game which isn't true. ive actually spent a lot of time trying and i went threw a lot of trial and error.

    i had other concepts that work with whats currently in the game. but those concepts just end up stale. when i applied them and imagine the long term. i realize what i added is dead on arrival. the only time i found success is when i started to remove and reimagine/ redesign concepts.

    lets go back to this video i created.

    https://youtu.be/q3mVAe6C2O0

    this was really hard to do because i realized there was a problem with the charge mechanic. but i threw this together for the sake of the video

    you're suppose to be given 2 options Uncharged or charged.

    something that bothers me about the charged mechanic is that some skills will have " if charged" built into it already. then the individual points will have " if charged" in each point. which doesn't make sense to me. mages shield is a good example of this. why would i ever tap mages shield in the 1st place?. but then when i spec into charged invul it solidifies what im going to talk about.

    when you spec into anything powerful thats charge related you'll always charge your skill no matter what. if you see a point like " if charged this gives you invul for 3s " you're 100% going to pick it and charge every single time".

    remember when i said you had 2 options? well you actually have 1 option although there's a choice its a obvious choice. but what happens if a player doesn't genuinely know?

    even with the system being as simple as it is, it still has a lot issues. people still ask " what build should i use? or where should i put points into?" the system was designed around trying to get those type of players to make a "decision". even with all of that the system still manages to fail.

    Even with what i did warcry still fails. i understand completely why it fails. but ill save that for another day.

    "charging in pvp"
    i feel like i understand what they were going for with charge especially from the perspective of pvp.

    Example
    during a enemies charge you might stun them or a pet passive will. or maybe when they released their fully charged skill. you might get lucky and stun the skill during the startup animation causing it to fail completely.

    now add 2v2,4v4 or 5v5 to the equation everything seems good. more pets randomly stunning, freezing, paralyzing and etc. heres the thing pets dont really get to do this anymore. tbh ive always thought end game pvp was a meme because pets never really got to apply stuff for a extended period of time. it always felt like teams got nuked after a few seconds. i remember end game pvp being really unforgiving.

    in pvp you have to charge before you get into whats happening. then when your in the middle of this 2v2, 4v4 or 5v5. you have to charge and you'll die during it. then when you look at the charge mechanic as a whole something doesn't seem right. at lower levels is when i started to realize what the system was created around. end game is where i realized what it failed to evolve out of.

    another issue that i had with this design is how the player will begin to favor holding a charged skill. the player will preemptively charge a skill and wait for the right moment.

    "keep in mind that everything im talking about has nothing to do with the current meta"

    warriors heal
    youre not going to wait to charge because charging a skill takes time. so youre going to preemptively hold it untill you see you're team mates hp drop. then you'll release heal on reaction. but what happens if your team mates die so fast that you cant react with a heal? what am i suppose to react with charged jugg?

    im suppose to preemptively use charged heal but if the damage in the meta is extremely high what am i suppose to do? this is extremely unforgiving. you cant react lol.

    in the video i was trying to tackle the charge problem and i still think i failed. i spent like 2 weeks trying to figure it out. i went through a lot of concepts before i arrived at berserk.

    take care.
    Last edited by Potofgreed; 07-12-2022 at 07:57 AM.

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    Default

    wowowowowwowowowowo

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    I apologize but I may have misunderstood something, what exactly is your solution?


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    Skill animation for war is slow

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    I guess you want the skill to behave as a charged skill even when not charged? I don't really have an opinion but in general you can't wait to react regardless. One hit pvp is fairly common so if you wait to heal its to late even if your not charging it. Depending on the timing I've seen people get killed through the heal bubble. You want that in place before someone starts taking damage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by THE GOLDEN KING View Post
    I apologize but I may have misunderstood something, what exactly is your solution?


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    i said " i think it fails" because this was me trying to work with the system. " the charge mechanic"

    i made this then knowing that this fails. it fails in afew places.

    1st is the charge mechanic but that isn't my fault its just how the current system was designed. so i worked off it.

    the solution to this problem is to remove the universal charge mechanic and add universal Manuel aiming, and manuel target lock. then they can put charge on certain skills. "mobile legends system is a good reference point" and they updated that system over the years.

    the problem with a.l is that the system has limitations so things cant be changed or it might be rough to. so " if it aint broke dont fix it"

    the other thing is when you make a skill powerful. why would you use a different skill? this all has to deal with top tier,mid tier, and low tier skills. but ill touch on this some other time.

    ill just say a.l was designed to be a finished product. what they did at the bench makes it really difficult to change things now. that and the system has limitations of course.



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    Quote Originally Posted by capeo View Post
    I guess you want the skill to behave as a charged skill even when not charged? I don't really have an opinion but in general you can't wait to react regardless. One hit pvp is fairly common so if you wait to heal its to late even if your not charging it. Depending on the timing I've seen people get killed through the heal bubble. You want that in place before someone starts taking damage.
    a player would have to preemptively charge heal and use it before going into combat. but once in combat that issue arises again. this can be due to pets with immobilize abilities. or the player having to charge again. tbh having a tap to fully charged heal wouldn't change this i think... the damage is really unforgiving.

    heres the thing no mmo rpg or mmo Arpg has balanced pvp.

    check my past post if your interested in different concepts n stuff. the game pt 1 2 3 4

    also i wasn't trying to change anything in this. i was simply working off what exists in the game


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    Quote Originally Posted by THE GOLDEN KING View Post
    I apologize but I may have misunderstood something, what exactly is your solution?


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    and here's the thought process of when i did warcry

    i didnt even stray away from the charge mechanic. i just put emphasis on how you need to spec all 3 points in war cry so that you can unlock berserk. if a player that doesn't know any better reads berserk they're going to say well " i need to spec 1 point to unlock warcry and spec 3 points in war cry to unlock berserk". when they do spec all for 5 points into war cry they now have to think.

    "do i tap to give my allies a buff or do i charge to give my self berserk"

    it becomes situational.

    but even to this extent i know some players dont even care. this is because if a person never experienced something like this before in a game. its hard to wrap your head around it. it comes down to the thought of a concept and how its applied. but people dont approach life applying concepts. they approach it with the just "Do it mentality". " hence why rogue was designed in the way that it was.

    Example
    a person thats never played basketball picks up the ball and tries to shoot it into the hoop. the idea of a concept didnt have to be applied. or the only idea of a concept is "trial and error". concepts like how much force needs to be put into the ball to get it into the hoop is intuitive. they dont think about it and they feel justified not to if they become consistent at it.

    the current charge, and skill system are decent for when you're being starved of points. when you're being starved for points " low lvl pvp" you really have to think and optimize for what you're going up against. even with that its still super simple and people still fail to grasp it.

    btw this was pre written


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    Last edited by Potofgreed; 07-17-2022 at 04:22 PM. Reason: corrections

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    Quote Originally Posted by Potofgreed View Post
    and here's the thought process of when i did warcry

    i didnt even stray away from the charge mechanic. i just put emphasis on how you need to spec all 3 points in war cry so that you can unlock berserk. if a player that doesn't know any better reads berserk they're going to say well " i need to spec 1 point to unlock warcry and spec 3 points in war cry to unlock berserk". when they do spec all for 5 points into war cry they now have to think.

    it becomes situational.

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    I liked that idea there… con I modify it a bit?
    Since we keep reaching higher levels and skill points, I think adding more bonuses to our skills would be an interesting concept. Say for example on warriors “vengeful blood” you have your standard 4 upgrades.
    -25str/50str when charged
    -14sec timer
    -10%crit/25%crit when charged
    -15% damage/25% damage when charged

    Why not add small skill bonuses on top of that. Not like skill mastery. Like for example each skill has an extra 5 point slot. You have 2, 2 point upgrades and 2, 3 point upgrades.

    2 point upgrades
    :+20 str
    :+5% damage

    3 point upgrades
    :1%hp reg/2sec while skill active
    :+6 seconds longer

    You can only choose 1 of each. Each skill upgrade should add to how you play, whether you want to tank a bit more or want to damage more enemies. Like the example above, choose +20str/1hp reg/sec youre trying to tank more or 5% damage/+ 6 seconds you want to make as much damage as possible. I hope you understand where I’m going with this.


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    yeah i understand. but do you understand what you suggested is dead on arrival?

    do you understand?

    ill give you a Example of a old concept that had to be addressed.

    Gems

    normal blood gem
    normal glacial gem
    normal fire gem
    grand blood gem
    grand glacial gem
    grand fire gem
    paracelsus gem
    enchanted eye of Skrillax
    skull gem " 1st gem that proced via skill dmg"
    normal tarlok rage
    normal tarlok wind
    normal tarlok wisdom
    grand tarlok rage
    grand tarlok wind
    grand tarlok wisdom
    normal elondrian gem
    grand elondrian gem
    normal reinforced blood
    normal reinforced glacial
    normal reinforced fire
    grand reinforced blood
    grand reinforced glacial
    grand reinforced fire

    so they replaced the gem system with the jewel system. they didnt remove the gem system from the game. but they made it so that gems couldn't be slotted into gear above level 41. they could have remove gems entirely but they couldn't for the obvious reasons.

    now i want you think for a moment and ask yourself this question.

    why did they put gems into the game in the 1st place if they was just going to eventually change it into the jewel system?

    ill make it simple and tell you.
    they didnt think of the long term consequences that gems would've had on the system. when they did think of the long term they realized their mistake.

    why didnt they just make a gem more powerful then paracelsus and eye gem? why didnt they make gems more powerful then the hybrid gems? just think about it im sure you'll come around. but because of this error we arrived at the current jewel system

    the jewel system is more annoying because of the crafting process. but jewels are more stable...i guess.

    from precise jewel we went to flawless jewel. this gap in power reminds of a grand tarlok gem in away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Potofgreed View Post
    yeah i understand. but do you understand what you suggested is dead on arrival?

    do you understand?

    ill give you a Example of a old concept that had to be addressed.

    Gems

    normal blood gem
    normal glacial gem
    normal fire gem
    grand blood gem
    grand glacial gem
    grand fire gem
    paracelsus gem
    enchanted eye of Skrillax
    skull gem " 1st gem that proced via skill dmg"
    normal tarlok rage
    normal tarlok wind
    normal tarlok wisdom
    grand tarlok rage
    grand tarlok wind
    grand tarlok wisdom
    normal elondrian gem
    grand elondrian gem
    normal reinforced blood
    normal reinforced glacial
    normal reinforced fire
    grand reinforced blood
    grand reinforced glacial
    grand reinforced fire

    so they replaced the gem system with the jewel system. they didnt remove the gem system from the game. but they made it so that gems couldn't be slotted into gear above level 41. they could have remove gems entirely but they couldn't for the obvious reasons.

    now i want you think for a moment and ask yourself this question.

    why did they put gems into the game in the 1st place if they was just going to eventually change it into the jewel system?

    ill make it simple and tell you.
    they didnt think of the long term consequences that gems would've had on the system. when they did think of the long term they realized their mistake.

    why didnt they just make a gem more powerful then paracelsus and eye gem? why didnt they make gems more powerful then the hybrid gems? just think about it im sure you'll come around. but because of this error we arrived at the current jewel system

    the jewel system is more annoying because of the crafting process. but jewels are more stable...i guess.

    from precise jewel we went to flawless jewel. this gap in power reminds of a grand tarlok gem in away.
    It wouldn’t be dead on arrival it’s just another form of mastery*. I prefer the old gems over the newer jewels. The diversity of the gems is what I liked. Now we have 15 str flawless jewels :/


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    Please help me see if I've understood your post. So what you're post is saying is that as good as charge is, it's not as effective in endgame pvp because at higher lvls fights are more fast paced and by the time you charge a skill its pretty much too late, correct? Genuinely trying to see if I understand what you're saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by THE GOLDEN KING View Post
    It wouldn’t be dead on arrival it’s just another form of mastery*. I prefer the old gems over the newer jewels. The diversity of the gems is what I liked. Now we have 15 str flawless jewels :/


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    hey if im wrong im wrong i dont mind being wrong. there's no right or wrong way to go about things i guess.

    " if it aint broke dont fix it"

    i think its best if i start not caring.

    later and take care everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neutrone View Post
    Please help me see if I've understood your post. So what you're post is saying is that as good as charge is, it's not as effective in endgame pvp because at higher lvls fights are more fast paced and by the time you charge a skill its pretty much too late, correct? Genuinely trying to see if I understand what you're saying.
    i want to make this clear before answering your question this isnt about pvp. its about the charge mechanic as a whole and how it has flaws. my main focus is to make everyone aware of these issues.

    so to answer your question.

    Yep and even if fully charged heal was a tap you would still probably die the same way. lol so it wouldn't matter.

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