Feedback: Guild Rankings

[Raziast]

1. First change that should help with a lot of confusion about the guild LB system is the one suggested by asommers himself. Count everything that’s been active within 14 days. Else doesn’t matter.

Why T shouldn’t be more than 14 days because no matter how busy anyone is, u can always come active for some time in 2 weeks to show that you aren’t done with the game and you’re still breathing and healthy to show your presence. Unless you end up in a desert or mid of ocean with connectivity issues for multiple weeks.

I can’t suggest the decrease in N from 500 because guilds with lower members will always settle with the least and best, with no opportunity for newcomers.

2. I +1 to Encryption mentioning alternative character problems, it hurts a lot. When a person randomly plans to leave the guild, 20 more characters will leave spamming the disaster, only to tell you that he had 20 more characters getting your position sustained on LB.

One character per account with the highest achievement points will be counted for 1 guild, having multiple alt characters can give some kind of extremely minor advantage but not the direct count in all factors affecting LB.

3. Guild Hoppers is another problem that we have to deal with a lot. To fix that issue, I suggest that anyone without a guild should immediately opt out of effecting any kind of guild rank calculations for the next 14 days. This should apply to the banner count too.

4. About Pve Botting problems. Let’s just give a maximum to it, as we already have an achievement of 1m PvE. Nothing above 1m should count in guild ranking. Anything above is limited to the flex of players themselves.

5. Then we have K/D problems in PVP. Pvp is dead. We know that nothing can be done about it anytime soon. I would suggest removing it completely but because we have related achievement points already and if we must include something related to PVP then it needs to be the direct kills count in PVP, not K/D.
Set a Maximum amount that will contribute to guild ranking, say 10k kills, anything above then that or having a +ive or -ive K/D is just limited to the flex of players themselves.

6. About the Guild age or Player age, make it count, but again, a justifiable advantage. An old and active group of players do need some kind of honorary advantage.

7. If we’re going to consider 2 weeks time frame a lot, why don’t we just get LB updates every 2 weeks instead of 1 week or a month? ��

8. Also, I don’t know if it should be related, but as a side suggestion, I was thinking of giving guild titles with slight color differences to different member ranks in the guild. For example, different guild title colors for Recruiters, Combatants, Officers, and Master. A slight and nice color difference with almost no pain to the eyes. This might increase a bit more interest in the importance of the guild member ranks system.

[papas]

1.First change that should help with a lot of confusion about the guild LB system is the one suggested by asommers himself. Count everything that’s been active within 14 days. Else doesn’t matter.

Why T shouldn’t be more than 14 days because no matter how busy anyone is, u can always come active for some time in 2 weeks to show that you aren’t done with the game and you’re still breathing and healthy to show your presence. Unless you end up in a desert or mid of ocean with connectivity issues for multiple weeks.

I can’t suggest the decrease in N from 500 because guilds with lower members will always settle with the least and best, with no opportunity for newcomers.

2.I +1 to Encryption mentioning alternative character problems, it hurts a lot. When a person randomly plans to leave the guild, 20 more characters will leave spamming the disaster, only to tell you that he had 20 more characters getting your position sustained on LB.

One character per account with the highest achievement points will be counted for 1 guild, having multiple alt characters can give some kind of extremely minor advantage but not the direct count in all factors affecting LB.

3.Guild Hoppers is another problem that we have to deal with a lot. To fix that issue, I suggest that anyone without a guild should immediately opt out of effecting any kind of guild rank calculations for the next 14 days. This should apply to the banner count too.

4.About Pve Botting problems. Let’s just give a maximum to it, as we already have an achievement of 1m PvE. Nothing above 1m should count in guild ranking. Anything above is limited to the flex of players themselves.

5.Then we have K/D problems in PVP. Pvp is dead. We know that nothing can be done about it anytime soon. I would suggest removing it completely but because we have related achievement points already and if we must include something related to PVP then it needs to be the direct kills count in PVP, not K/D.
Set a Maximum amount that will contribute to guild ranking, say 10k kills, anything above then that or having a +ive or -ive K/D is just limited to the flex of players themselves.

6.About the Guild age or Player age, make it count, but again, a justifiable advantage. An old and active group of players do need some kind of honorary advantage.

7.If we’re going to consider 2 weeks time frame a lot, why don’t we just get LB updates every 2 weeks instead of 1 week or a month? ��

8.Also, I don’t know if it should be related, but as a side suggestion, I was thinking of giving guild titles with slight color differences to different member ranks in the guild. For example, different guild title colors for Recruiters, Combatants, Officers, and Master. A slight and nice color difference with almost no pain to the eyes. This might increase a bit more interest in the importance of the guild member ranks system.

1. If this changes, then the number of activity factors will reduce. Meaning activity will matter less than it is rn. Activity is most important. Tho it will exclude those ppl who keep boosting guild's rank in high amount while being totally inactive so I understand ur point. Note tho 1st that all aps and pve and all everyone has achieved is because of teamwork and help/carry a guild provides. So I beleive guild deserves to get that boost anyway, and 2nd Currently if someone is inactive more than 30days, he is bringing down rank of his guild for 5factors. That's actually worse than boosting guild with 10m pve kills. So what u suggesting might actually has oposite result than u try to get. Devs will have to test it ig.
2. Having 20alts in a guild is not an advantage at all. Unless ofc if he has +guild reqs with all or with most of em. My main has 1m pve 10k pvp 10k flags 60k aps, my hc has 250k pve 2k pvp 50k aps and my seasonal has 90pve 0pvp and 10k aps. Yes I get bit better results in activity cause more % of members active. But instantly reducing alot so many more factors (instead of my main really good average). Average will be 415k pve 4k pvp and 40k aps. Which giving worse score to 5-6 factors. In case tho that someone have seasonals every season that all boosting guild rank with high aps pve pve, then he worked hard for it and MUST definetely get counted!
3. This one is really good idea! +1
4. Unfortunatelly bottling is happening or happened in the past. Tho ppl that have legit pve kills +1m are much more than those who cheated. So it's totally unfair. Devs should try track those ppl and delete their kills pvp and pve. No need ban. That will hurt more and ppl will stigmatise those as cheaters. I alrd have asked oficers to leave our guild in the past and refused to let other to join cause I know they use bottling. Both are overall lb for years.
5. New players have only kills and no deaths cause geting aps with dummies, which is fine. Removing deaths from counting will benefit only old players who actually pvp as myself. Have like, 10k+ kills and 6k+ deaths so will boost guild rank same as others 10k kills zero deaths. But still I think deaths should count as K/D, C/D.
6. Agreed. It doesn't anyway count much.
7. Weekly reset lb is nice. I can see ppl exciting to see new rank of guild. 2weeks is to long and hard to track improvements of ur guild and others.
8. -1 rewards will bring more cheating and dramma, even guild master gettin special banner sounds tempting lol.

Sorry for another long comment. I try share my thoughts abt ur, really nice suggestions.
Cheers


Στάλθηκε από το LDN-L21 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

[tapsykrete]

i only suggest when you leave guild u cant join new guild for a week. so they prevent guild hoppers and i think big help for guild pts system.

[Nocturnus]

Well it's fair in my opinion for players that play this game for many years and supporting/contributing all AL community to be rewarded.
You think the oposite which is respectful.
Most of improvements in game came after those people suggestions. Experiense in previous events and facts happened in the past help devs sometimes see some improvements to be made that otherwise it would t have noticed.


Στάλθηκε από το LDN-L21 μου χρησιμοποιώντας Tapatalk

This has nothing to do with the topic in question. There are other ways to reward people who play for a long time. And it's done.
Lb guild is a competition, and for it to be fair, everyone must be in equal conditions and rules, to compete.
The other Lb's in the game do not take the player's seniority.

[BaronB]

It's been a long time since I've seen an in-depth conversation about guild so firstly this is actually a really nice topic so thank you!

Alright after having a read, it doesn't seem to be very many people who actually understand very well how the current guild rank`s work based on some of the suggestions and replies with a couple of exceptions.

there are currently 16 different categories that make up a guilds overall average rank.

As mentioned by Papas, out of the 16 categories, a guild's worst ranked category is taken from its best.

So an example of this (based on currentnt weeks ranks) High Societys worst rank is its total Achivment Points (46th) and its PVE Kills/Members (1st) ... so neither of those rankings will count and will keep going with every category until left with a final rank.

Now looking at the 16 different categories, guild founding date and average account age just hold take up 2 of the 16 categories.

There was a time when a guilds age held more weight towards the guilds overall rankings and there is a thread about it which you can find which after lengthy discussions it was changed to what it is now where guild age doesn't actually hold as that much weight towards a guilds overall rank. (hence only 1 out of the 16 categories)

As its already been mentioned by a few now as well, keeping a guilds age as part of the rankings is imperative as keeping a guild going for many years is no easy feat and can show a guild has a strong enough foundation to have lasted the test of time but agreed it shouldn't be the top factor so the current system in that regard does well to keep that balance.

Average account age is similar to guilds age. If a guild is retaining old players then it should be something that should contribute towards a guild's overall rank as again it isn't something easily done and should be recognised. Again like the guild age, it does not have such a great weight on guild ranks but the current system in place works well and fairly as it factors 2 important but small aspects of guilds.


Now 14 categories left.

5 are dedicated towards guild activity.

This is pretty much 1/3 of a guild's overall rank so it plays a big part to play. Having such a large weight towards activity takes away from having a guild with nothing but old players... So if a guild is old and has a lot of really old players who haven't logged for 30+ days then it will matter if the guild is old and the average account age overall is good as that 2 good scores will be taken away from 2 of the 5 different activity counters and the other remaining 3 will just bring the guilds overall rank down anyways.

Same time If a new guild had just started up its activity rankings will be great (new guild so all members will be recently active) however it will only factor in 3/5 of the activity ranks as the guilds age and most likely average account age will be of much lower rankings.

9 categories remaining...

6 of those are taken up by PvP.

This section of the rankings is probably the most controversial and also the most weight-holding factor towards a guild's rankings. We have to appreciate this was implemented a long time ago back when PvP was very much alive and kicking rather than what it has become today (pretty much godless lol) so with the way the game is currently should these really hold such great importance towards guild rankings anymore?

I don't personally think so tho to completely take them away would also take away from the achievements made by players who did attain them over the years and who have been playing for a long time including the times it was relevant and a more active scene in the game.

We also have the elephant in the room in the form of players botting for those PvP kills. Now whilst PvP kills is still part of Achievements if players/guild has the manpower to able to help players get those kills to help them get those APs I don't see the justification for it to be punished as again its something that takes teamwork, resources and time. For example players in a guild who might make a seasonal character for their chance to get onto the leaderboards, if a players guild is willing to take the time to help them get those APs for a new character that can sometimes be the difference of getting onto LB and securing a position.

This also includes players who are trying to get their older main accounts onto the main top player's leaderboards as well.

Not to say there aren't players out there who "take the biscuit" with their accounts however those are easier to stop by either ban or as an idea suggested by Papas (paraphrasing)where the top 5/10 players from a guild with "abnormal" amount of PVP kills is not included at all in guild rankings. Same with the deaths as well as this can take away from incentives of dummy farming for rank improvements or the handful of players carrying a guild's rank.


Now 3 categories remaining

Considering actual PvE content holds such little weight towards a guild's rank taking up just 2 categories in today's times when PvE content is so much more relevant. This is where the biggest changes should be made in my opinion. Should really be the other way round with PVP, perhaps taking those 3 CTF categories and converting them into PVE related instead...

-Could story quests/side quests per member only counting the completed ones like completed APs count towards ranks incentives guilds members who have completed already their own to making sure people have completed or helped out in to complete all quests for others as it counts towards overall?

-Badges in guild per member (if events will continue to give out badges for players reaching LBs again another incentive for guilds to help its members to not only get to LBs but also helps count towards overall ranks

-Banners per member as again like badges you have banners earnt during events alongside those from Overall/Seasonal/Timed LBs... these numbers will go up the more active guilds are also again still supporting each other to obtain for the improvement of the guilds rank.

If you split up story and side quests that are intentionally 4 new categories that could replace CTF alone.


In regards to people guild hoping.

Now hear me out...

What if instead there was a category for the length of time members have actually been in a guild instead?

So the longer a player stays in a guild it has a positive effect on ranks and people can have more of a reason on deciding to stay in one place and also giving guilds more incentive to keep releventent and active with all its players as retaining retention will benefit the guilds rank too.

Finally, we get down to the last category which is the overall Achievement Points. Now with how it currently is, the top 50 guilds with overall APs is who makes it onto the Leaderboards.

This can realistically be achieved 2 ways... 1st way you have a large guild (based on current numbers you would need 2,000 players with 20k APs each just to make it into the top 50.) high volume of players but a low level of achievements or the 2nd way is having a smaller guild with much higher levels of achievements.

Because this is just again only 1 factor out of the 16 total for guild ranks it doesn't play too important of a role in the overall ranking however it gives all guilds a chance to choose if they want to try a with high or low numbers.

Personally, I've been in guilds in the past before I created HS where there were over 1k members and it was on the top 50 lbs (like 15th) however it wasn't the most pleasant experience I felt and the guild did get nuked (back in the day before it became a bannable offence) and I ended up in Pheonix guild which was ranked 1/2 and it around 150/200 members at most which at the time blew my mind as I was under the impression all guilds on LB must have all just been massive with thousands of players and chaotic and learnt the about quality>quantity.


With the way it is, it works perfectly and fairly so it wouldn't make sense to change that.


Yes, some improvements with taking away how much PvP and including more PvE-related criteria should be implemented but completely changing the current system is too flawed of an idea.

Ohh would defiantly love some kind of prize for LB guilds but yeah better not for the greater good XD

Management and customizations however are more than encouraged and welcomed. Being able to pay to change a guilds title colour, or buy environments in guildhall that would give all its members buffs similar to how houses do it for individual players already but these ideas are best saved for another thread


Sorry for the long one

Thank you for taking the time to read and everyone getting involved with the conversation!


1 <3

[Sulphurea]

In general i agree with Nocturnus. Idk much anout guild ranking nor i really ever cared about joining a guild just cause of its rank. Even more, i always hated when masters were overly obsessed with guild lb to the point of keeping in guild scammers or bad reputation people just for some points. Nor i ever cared about how much a guild is old, for real this is so useless lol can be old as game and still be empty af, so what's the point it even still exist? What i always looked for in a guild is as first thing capped players playing possibly every day, means very active people and WELL GEARED, so they are not a burden in parties. Beside some personal preference, like the average age of members, a strong rewarded guild should be one with strongest most active players, this is it. I would add that also the activity of the master should be a big factor, cause in many guilds masters are offline or afk alot and this is really annoying. Also could add titles for ranks, so people know to who ask for infos and at same time could be a sort of reward. Also, and in my experience been extremely annoying, officers should automatically lose their rank after a certain amount of inactive time, cause many guilds have like 50 officers but then only 3 of them are active, rest are useless. The guilds with most number of new players per week should also be rewarded somehow. By new player i mean a person that don't own many accounts etc, a"noob". I been there in my past and some guilds just are kind enough to help gaining nothing in return. This is what i generally think considering idk much about this topic

Inviato dal mio Redmi Note 7 utilizzando Tapatalk

[Ploid]

Having only top 300 players in a guild count towards guild ranking would be nice.

It would allow top guilds to take in more newer players and teach them the game.

Sent from my GM1913 using Tapatalk

[Daogole]

Having a ranking based on total achievement points just encourages people who play too much video games to be in the same guild. Part of the fun is figuring out what the requirements are instead of making them known. It would be worth checking the ratings if they actually changed that much.

[Fkned]

No matter what you do, stuff is gonna move, everyone will learn to adjust. This a good a place as any to start imho. Only unified comment on here for feedback I have heard is a bit longer than the 14 days. I look forward to an easier, more relevant lb rankings, and the tools to help us be successful. Thank you for your time and effort on this.

Itsed, Master of Bellum

[InsanitrisesAL]

I believe the fairest system would be to limit the score a single player can affect a category/ the other categories like average acc age / guild creation / aps and activity are important , besides that they cant be easily manipulated without losing points in another rank : example , add short term members to increase activity score / lower all categories that are divided by member count/ or add a high aps with generally low pve /pvp lower other ranks , thats just my input, would be nice to get some dev eyes on this suggestion, always a pleasure ^-^

[asommers]

Round 2 of the Guild Rankings feedback is here!

-ALS