I like the suggestion made by ALS way more than the current lb. It excludes most factors that people try to bot/dummy/cheat. Keep it simple - no complex and time consuming changes for a lb barely anyone cares about. Im only a bit afraid that points of some new achievements arent completely fair in my opinion but that issue was adressed in another thread already.
As I don't understand much about the ranking system I won't give any suggestions, as I don't think it would be very useful, but I like the idea of molding the system a bit, and having rewards would be interesting as well.
-Activity: only active players count for the guild count, 1 month could be the limit, if you've been away for more than 1 month your points don't count. Then additional points for being active as in the current count. I mean 1 active day, 3d, 7d, 15d, 30d.
-Seniority of the guild: it should not add up, but it could be put somewhere, just to know what the age of a guild is, as an anecdote.
-Pve and Pvp: As indicated Insanity should have a limit, above that limit should not add, per player or character. The limit could be the limit of the aps. I mean 1m for pve and 10k for pvp.
-Aps: it is extremely important to have many Aps.
-Flags: they don't count for Aps, they shouldn't count for guild Lb, either. On the other hand, if not, you could have a limit of 10k flags per player like in Aps.
-Guild battles: could be a point to think about. They should count only the events for the duration of the season, but it could be manipulated perhaps. They would fight against a dummy guild.
-Pve/pvp/flag: also, they could add only the ones done during the season.
-Hardcore: should have a bonus of points for having "alive" Hc players in the guild. Or on the contrary, they should add double the points, because everything costs double in a Hc. Or add as 2 players. So if the limit is 65k aps it could count as 130k aps, or something like that.
-Prizes: could be 1 temporary badge and temporary color title, or also the same name of the guild but in gold.
Badge to the 3 best guild, title to the 10 best guild. And it would last 1 month or until the restart of the guild Lb.
They could be used only by guild masters, officers and recruits.
-Reorder ranges:
Master. (1) All tasks and exclusively promotions.
Submaster. (max 4) They could perform tasks like edit hall, guild cleaning, guild battles and event organization, ban people from the guild, can demote officers, among others.
Officials. (max 20) They are chat moderators, they only expel inappropriate people.
Combatant. They fight in guild battles.
Recruits. They invite people.
Members.
That's all for now, thanks for reading.
I have some more ideas but I must think about them better, so that it is understood.
Originally Posted by papas
I really apreciate ur effort last months to improve the game. The result is amazing so far.
Now abt guild ranking i have to remind u years ago when it came on this current form, for many days was discussed and hundreds of reply came to ur disposal. The lb is fine as it is. Imo it's a waste of time for ur team sinse in every changes u gonna make always ppl will find ways to exploit or "cheat" for better rank.
I don't think there are many ppl that actually cares abt guild lb.
Yes pvp is dead but there are many ppl that have legit kills and flags captured even those done years ago. Would be unfair to remove pvp factors. Just keep tracking dummy farmers and keep "punish em". Ofc dummy farm till 10k pvp kills shouldn't be scholled.
Yes ppl pve bot but many playing event lbs for years and 4m pve are legit.
Excluding best and worse ranking is fair and giving chanse to new guilds with low aps to be on lb. So I wouldn't change this.
Guild activity matters the most sinse there are so many factors abt it, no need make it count last 14days only.
Acc age and guild age is important too. Having a guild created for so long go and still being on lb must be rewarded, same goes for old accounts.
Once again thank you for all your hard effort. All devs made game better and is very promising. Spend ur time improve events and don't mind guild lb.
P. S. Dont listen to encryption.
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Ill be back with a more detailed reply to this post however the short version of it would be very similar to whats been posted by Papas
A lot of people care about lb. It's a status to many to be in an lb guild, higher the better. Guild rankings should continue to be on a weekly basis, as many guilds host events like pve and boss events for that very reason. It's to keep members active while benefiting the guild. The numbers suggested by asommers look reasonably sound actually, but I would also run activity on a single point higher than 14 days, 30 range is reasonable. And yes if you're in an lb guild under 500 players it should be discounted towards lb, sorry to say. Some lb guilds are for the most part dead, less players less activity and there by factors that really don't contribute to gameplay. Just loaded with og players that for the most part don't log in. I keep over 30 day players at level 81 for this exact reason on my roster. As their other factors, acct age, aps, etc mean more or at least equally, to the attendance hit.
Make it simple. Keep it simple. Aps, activity, size a good place to start. People build fresh guilds for the simple reason it jumps them on lb as they show 99% activity and the system is heavily weighed towards attendance. There being four categories.
Itsed, Master of Bellum
And you could add an AP event in guildevents tab towards thisit will motivate lower level chars to boost theirs. Benefiting everyone in guild and themselves
It's great that you are reviewing the mechanics for guild ranking.
Mine would be an unpopular opinion, but I say this because our guild truly has, and continue to invest A LOT of time, resources, and effort in building up so many toons. Some have stayed, and some have left. I feel that our guild's legacy of non-discrimination against low-level players, hand-holding them and aiding them in levelling and pursuing their achievements, not to mention numerous costly guild events to propel and incentivize them to run and not just twiddle their thumbs in game - just end up getting scattered all around Arlor.
Guilds are supposed to be a means to support and develop players, so I feel that APs that the guild has helped players achieve should be factored in. Perhaps the weight of the APs can lessen the longer that a player hasn't been in the guild. Although I am also cognizant of potential limitations, i.e. whether the game has a means to track and monitor this; I thought I'd still put my thoughts out there in case this is something that y'all can do something about.
As for your current proposal, T = 14days might be a bit short given that the player demographic consist of working folks and those in Uni. I'm aware that we are trying to drive activity up, but on the flipside, this might actually result in people completely disengaging if they feel they aren't vital to the guild standing because they are unable to play.
Many thanks.
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Go- min ar e polodren.
As I mentioned before guild age must be a factor. Always in history "ancient" guilds or clans are highly respected. Existing for so many years must be counted. New guilds have option to exclude this factor for lb if is the worse. This was desided long ago by devs which was the smartest thing abt guild lb.
Maybe some don't know this. The best and worse rank(tatal of two) of factors are being excluded so will be a bit balanse to new guilds. Also this helps if one guild "cheats" so will get not legit pvp or pve kills and gets insase numbers and rank1 of one factor.
Inactive characters not to be counted for rank sounds not bad idea. So some guilds with 5-20% activity will go off lb.
Pve / pvp factors must remain. There are so many ppl tha have high numbers LEGIT. Even some guilds dummy farmed millions of pvp kills to get high rank. This should be dealt by devs. Banning em for 1week without removing those kills didn't work. Sinse same person kept dummy farm more hundreds of thousands without get punished this time. Dummy farm till 10k kills should not be punished.
Rewarding top guilds would mess things up. Many guilds will find ways to cheat, more drama will come, and hundreds of mails will received by devs reporting cheaters. Guild lb can never be legit 100%
Saying this by GM of CU being(legit) top guild in lb 90% of time the last 3years.
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New seasonal rewards for top guilds and guild members
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That's why have to change the table. So that it is legitimate, and prizes can be given. Why punish people if you can modify, the way it works.
And seniority is an unnecessary advantage. I am not a better or more active player, for playing longer. And I've been playing for 7 years.
It's simple, players who don't play shouldn't participate in the competition, much less those who stopped playing more than 1 year ago.
As you can see the other Lb are reset every season, only purely active players participate. Nor does it matter how old the players are in the others Lb.
You also have hundreds of new players, who participate in the seasonal Lb, with full aps. Are those players less important because they are new characters?
Also in a real competition everyone starts from the same goal.
So far you haven't given a single good reason why those parameters should stay.
If they're a good guild they don't need those perks to prove it. What are you afraid of?
As a thought, you could do boards monthly. Random sample the day but post it monthly. Nobody knows when it's coming so hopping is discouraged. Award badges top three every month, stays with the guild. Leave guild lose badge. Also discourages guild hopping. Especially if you have an AP guildevent ability
So, aps, attendance, top 500 players, 30 day window to be checked. I know lb stats pulled Tuesday for me, posted Wednesday, I do my stuff on Mondays due to this. Can't tweak if u don't know when sample taken, keeping it fair w honest members. A 30 day window like you have now for your sample, and guild has a month to work on it for next sample. While top guilds have a badge. Could even make it a general badge for top 3, 5, or top 10 guild, whatever works. That's the reward ��
Oh and for those guilds w less members than 500, to make it fair for all, make the ap count straight, not an average. If your smaller guild is active w elite ap players it will be competitive compared to guilds who have more players with less aps. Also post counted AP numbers monthly like it's posted now, so guilds know where they stand on their count
Itsed, Master of Bellum
Last edited by Fkned; 10-01-2022 at 01:48 PM. Reason: Added stuff
I think u didn't read my full Comment bro. U keep repeating urself, trying prove ur point is correct even I alrd agreed w u abt inactive ppl. So I ll leave it right here. If u wanna talk abt it, u can contact me in game.
U know it is normal for ppl to disagree on many matters. Js
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1. Maybe instead of top 500 players, make it a % of players in the guild instead since some guilds have less than 500 players? (Not sure if going by % will have any drawbacks)
2. I also agree with a lot of the suggestions here to remove some of the criteria that most people cheat/bot/dummy in like PvP kills since a lot of people farming aps just dummy farm.
3. Remove guild and account age because older doesn't always mean better quality of players. This also gives newer guilds and players an unfair advantage; if newer players can reach the same level/experience/aps/kdr as older players then both the old and new player should have the same weight/contribution to the guild since they both reached the same level of achievement (one was just done over a longer period of time than the other).
Edited:
I also don't understand why older players need to be recognize/have benefits, they already have the advantage of time-- they've been in the game longer giving them a few years head start compared to others. It's not something people can work for/earn which is why I don't understand why they need to be recognized/be included in the criteria of counting towards guild score.
Last edited by MagicalTables; 10-16-2022 at 08:47 AM.
+1
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With not many care I meant the actual ranking not guilds in general. People try to join lb guilds because they try to be part of one of the largest/most active or most advanced groups. Little do actually play the game to increase the guilds ranking of a guild they joined. The calculated rankings of guilds are only a minor part of the whole concept of guilds thats why I believe less complex rankings work here aswell.
Something just came to me. Sinse excluding system of best and worse rank each week, working in a good way, how abt do same thing in every factor seperatelly.
For example, in a guild can exclude counting of N% best and worse of em. So let's say if new players join a guild they won't drag it down in ranking and if someone exploit with high numbers of pve/pvp kills will not boost in an unfair way. So actually removing 5 best and worse scores of members in every guild, not 5characters. For example 5worse scores of pve kills and aps propably will be of 5new players but 5worse activity might be of any ppl not active, no matter their other scores which will not be excluded unless they also worse compared to everyone else in guild.
Again this will be unfair for some guilds(as the one I'm part of). But I think will help with every issues ppl mentioned above.
I think N should be equal with 1. So in a guild with 500 ppl 5best and 5worse of every factor can be excluded. "N" should always wound up. So if a guild has 101-200 members N should be equal with 2, if has 401-500 should be equal with 5.
U can try it and give us results of this "new" lb (if u wanna share) compared to last announsed lb rank. So u(and we) can see the diferense and if that helps to solve things bothering you.
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An old guild has a better foundation than one that has just been created. Its a solid community of people who potentially leave less fast than in a new guild.
Just as the example with new vs old players. A player who has started 7 years ago and is active daily is more advanced than a player who started a month ago and is active daily. Same goes for guilds imo.
In small addition old players achieved aps much much harder than new ppl get it. Including all pvp/pve kills pets. I remember while we run for hours get the "Crack egg" aps in elite tindrin which gave me my first lb banner. Was lucky to have op friends. @Alitarose @musasun
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This reinforces what I am saying.
Since being an old player or guild is an advantage in itself, they can know the game more than another new player, or it is more advanced, etc, as you are mentioning.
So why reinforce that advantage, giving them more advantages in points?
Well it's fair in my opinion for players that play this game for many years and supporting/contributing all AL community to be rewarded.
You think the oposite which is respectful.
Most of improvements in game came after those people suggestions. Experiense in previous events and facts happened in the past help devs sometimes see some improvements to be made that otherwise it would t have noticed.
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