Zodias Weapon Nerf Discussion

[Taughtmage]

What an excellent discussion! Congratulations on a thoroughly well-considered, respectful and insightful conversation. Here are my takeaways:

1. You've enlightened me to the fact that there are many important economic and social dimensions that must be considered before making adjustments to any of the Zodias Mythic weaponry. Extreme care must be taken with any 'nerfs' so that we don't disenfranchise players (or exacerbate existing rivalries that are causing bad player friction).

2. Zodias Mythic weapons + Kraken Battle Shell armor can align to be super OP. However this alignment is unreliable and strategically inferior to the Zodias Kraken Battle weapons' 100% proc on charge after cool-down. TBH I'm rather pleased that the Mythics have continued to be relevant so long after their release.

3. The most popular suggestion (and indeed the most fun) is to crank up the damage on the Kraken Battle Sword, making the weapon's initial hit much more powerful. The gap in DPS and Max Damage for Zodias 'Boss Killer' weapons for Rogues and Sorcerers is rather narrow. On the other hand, the gap between Warriors and Rogues and Sorcerers is rather large so there is room to buff Kraken Battle Sword damage without overtaking either of the other Class' gear (even with Rage Ultimate activated).

So TLDR; a modest Kraken Battle Sword damage buff will happen soon. Changes to Mythic 81 Weapons are not going to happen anytime soon. And assuming that everything goes well with our development schedule, Ultimate Skills for all Classes will be reviewed as part of our overall Class Skill Rework later this year.

Best wishes!

Approve of this greatly! What do you think of what I said about maybe different types of procs for the arc sword? Single target massive damage proc when charged, AoE lesser damage proc possibility when basic attacking (worse than aegis so aegis still has a role). I feel like having 2 possible procs on 1 weapon would be interesting


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[recilencia123]

Approve of this greatly! What do you think of what I said about maybe different types of procs for the arc sword? Single target massive damage proc when charged, AoE lesser damage proc possibility when basic attacking (worse than aegis so aegis still has a role). I feel like having 2 possible procs on 1 weapon would be interesting


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-1 all good, just hope good damage buff

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[Cinco]

Approve of this greatly! What do you think of what I said about maybe different types of procs for the arc sword? Single target massive damage proc when charged, AoE lesser damage proc possibility when basic attacking (worse than aegis so aegis still has a role). I feel like having 2 possible procs on 1 weapon would be interesting


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Certainly would be interesting if done correctly - however, it's going to be extremely hard to balance such a similar proc between these two Arcanes. For it to be fair we'd need to come up with some sort of high-damage single target function for the Aegis... otherwise we're back to having one War weapon to rule them all :-)

I'm happier with the Sword and the Aegis having distinct roles for now. Thanks for the suggestion nevertheless!

[yerrisin]

This Ultimate was designed for a very long time now and I'm wondering why all of a sudden this Ultimate needs rework all of a sudden now.

I don't think STS will release a boss in the future that will get nuked so easily by a mere Warrior's Ultimate. I know players that finished up the entire Zodias Campaign before the Level 81 Arcane equipment even released and they haven't complained about Warrior's Ultimate at all

This Ultimate Skill is used in PvE and only in PvE where your working together with other players. Players should be glad a Warrior can do that and help out in damaging bosses. Your in PvE and your able to work together with that warrior.

This Ultimate Skill provides Hardcore Mode Warriors the damage they need to keep going and finishing up difficult maps in Hardcore Mode as well.

I'd agree that this Ultimate is really good compared to the other class Ultimates. I get what your trying to say but I don't think it really needs to be so nerfed to the point that us warriors feel like we just lost our best ultimate. I just don't think there needs to be any changes on this Ultimate since your going to be working with a warrior in a map eventually.

exactly. This is what any warrior who knows what he is talking about would say.

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[umarrahim]

Certainly would be interesting if done correctly - however, it's going to be extremely hard to balance such a similar proc between these two Arcanes. For it to be fair we'd need to come up with some sort of high-damage single target function for the Aegis... otherwise we're back to having one War weapon to rule them all :-)

I'm happier with the Sword and the Aegis having distinct roles for now. Thanks for the suggestion nevertheless!

I believe the sword buff without reducing anything in compensation was just a win-win, and not balance.

Warrior's shouldn't be doing same damage as other classes without ultimate on top of nuking bosses in 1 sec with their ult ready.

It just makes them the best without any downside?

If all classes should be balanced then warrior ultimate needs to be looked at right now. Big changes can be made later.

Kraken Sword is the only 'Boss Killer' kraken weapon that benefits from Warrior Ult.

I believe testing a 4x STR ultimate would be a good place to start in compensation for the Kraken Sword plain buffs.

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[mikesito]

I have a question for the mage/rogue that r crying in what does 6x ult affects you? It help us lol you guys just hate war for no reason. Can't you think about the hardcore wars?

[capeo]

I find it hilarious people care that with an ultimate wars can kill bosses. 90% of the time my ultimate isn't even charged for the boss. Never in portals. I am only able to use it if I run solo anyway. So why does it bother people? If I run a map solo it's 4x as long as a rogue or mage. So it's not a timed map issue. It's irrelevant in pvp so it's not direct competition. So even with this op ulti it takes me longer and has no effect on anyone else in a competitive way. What is the downside to the other classes? Would they trade 75% of their damage for an eventual ultimate that allows them to nuke a boss? It makes no sense at all.

I was running rahab and all I did is kill the mini. Rogues and mages killed the boss. It's hit or miss with procs and pet aa if I can get through a stage but the rogues and mages brought his health to 0 before he reset for the next stage. My ulti never charged so i was useless. Where is the balance in that?

Honestly I'm so sick of it idc if they nerf the ultimate. It's not like I can keep up anyway. Wars aren't needed to actually tank or keep a party alive and in pvp can't survive the massive damage the other classes do with similar stats. Oh and I don't do enough damage to actually kill anyone.

So God forbid I can nuke a boss running solo after taking 10 minutes to clear a map....

[snakeeyes]

Imagine you can tank, heal, pull mobs and kill easily, short cd skill because of haste, kill boss without rage because of buffs weapon with 12sec cd big advantage to new map, lets all change to warior class.

[snakeeyes]

Certainly would be interesting if done correctly - however, it's going to be extremely hard to balance such a similar proc between these two Arcanes. For it to be fair we'd need to come up with some sort of high-damage single target function for the Aegis... otherwise we're back to having one War weapon to rule them all :-)

I'm happier with the Sword and the Aegis having distinct roles for now. Thanks for the suggestion nevertheless!

@Cinco warior after buffs is just a sven GOD STRENGTH mode maybe the buffs that you put on kraken sword just like a dusk sword that sacrifice - hp and -armor at least 50% so they feel the pain of a rogue when running on a hard map?

[Cinco]

@Cinco warior after buffs is just a sven GOD STRENGTH mode maybe the buffs that you put on kraken sword just like a dusk sword that sacrifice - hp and -armor at least 50% so they feel the pain of a rogue when running on a hard map?

I don't understand what you're saying. Can you rephrase? Thanks.

[snakeeyes]

I don't understand what you're saying. Can you rephrase? Thanks.

If kraken sword will buffs equivalent to bow and gun they can do all they want without the help of other class, all of warior player want to be just like assasin tank, i remember 1 sword that has a sacrifice the armor and healt (dusk sword) powerful sword but weak on armor because of minus armor when you equip maybe you can make the buffs just like that, sory for the bad english.

[Cinco]

If kraken sword will buffs equivalent to bow and gun they can do all they want without the help of other class, all of warior player want to be just like assasin tank, i remember 1 sword that has a sacrifice the armor and healt (dusk sword) powerful sword but weak on armor because of minus armor when you equip maybe you can make the buffs just like that, sory for the bad english.

Thank you for rephrasing!

To be clear: they're not going to be equivalent to the bow and gun.

I wrote details of what I'm planning a few posts up ^

Best wishes!

[snakeeyes]

Thank you for rephrasing!

To be clear: they're not going to be equivalent to the bow and gun.

I wrote details of what I'm planning a few posts up ^

Best wishes!

Oh i see thanks for clarifying, we agree to buffs for that krak sword. Ik you do all to the class balance just like we achieve now. Thanks.

[Taughtmage]

I believe the sword buff without reducing anything in compensation was just a win-win, and not balance.

Warrior's shouldn't be doing same damage as other classes without ultimate on top of nuking bosses in 1 sec with their ult ready.

It just makes them the best without any downside?

If all classes should be balanced then warrior ultimate needs to be looked at right now. Big changes can be made later.

Kraken Sword is the only 'Boss Killer' kraken weapon that benefits from Warrior Ult.

I believe testing a 4x STR ultimate would be a good place to start in compensation for the Kraken Sword plain buffs.

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Lol this argument is void because rogues and mages don’t even need ulti to wipe elite zodias boss health. They do it with 1500 stats alone. Warrs on the other hand need to get enough kills for ultimate, or have like 3k str and use nept proc switching (very hard to do consistently in zodias maps). And warrs are dying just as much as mages and rogues in these zodias maps because so much damage is %health based or reflected from damage dealt. Warriors are a little bit more survivable than rogues and mages (thanks to heal, which mages also have for rahabakor ending so warr isnt needed there) but WAY less effective at clearing maps. This is why warr gear is the cheapest AND why decent warriors cant get invited to good endgame parties to farm. Legit people stand in town and say “pt elite rahabakor kraken bow or gun.” Warriors don’t even get considered. We don’t want to 1 shot bosses, we just want to be able to farm with the mages and rogues. Having to farm mob kills to build ultimate to be able to kill the boss in a map is not a fun or efficient experience. Nerfing the ultimate on top of that just doesnt make sense imo.


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[Taughtmage]

I find it hilarious people care that with an ultimate wars can kill bosses. 90% of the time my ultimate isn't even charged for the boss. Never in portals. I am only able to use it if I run solo anyway. So why does it bother people? If I run a map solo it's 4x as long as a rogue or mage. So it's not a timed map issue. It's irrelevant in pvp so it's not direct competition. So even with this op ulti it takes me longer and has no effect on anyone else in a competitive way. What is the downside to the other classes? Would they trade 75% of their damage for an eventual ultimate that allows them to nuke a boss? It makes no sense at all.

I was running rahab and all I did is kill the mini. Rogues and mages killed the boss. It's hit or miss with procs and pet aa if I can get through a stage but the rogues and mages brought his health to 0 before he reset for the next stage. My ulti never charged so i was useless. Where is the balance in that?

Honestly I'm so sick of it idc if they nerf the ultimate. It's not like I can keep up anyway. Wars aren't needed to actually tank or keep a party alive and in pvp can't survive the massive damage the other classes do with similar stats. Oh and I don't do enough damage to actually kill anyone.

So God forbid I can nuke a boss running solo after taking 10 minutes to clear a map....

IKR lol. “Its no fair warrior kills boss 1.5 seconds faster than me when they have their ult”

Meanwhile: warrior taking 90 seconds longer in the map in order to build up that 1.5 second advantage on killing the boss.

The proof is in the pudding. Warrior gear costs the least by far for a reason. It’s not because there is “more warrior gear” (we would expect based on probability for there to be the same amount items in the game for each class, ie. 1/6 of kraken weapons are swords). It’s the slowest and least efficient class. Rogues and mages clear maps way faster, as proven by leaderboard parties, therefore they make more gold per min/hour. All of this coupled with the lack of need for a tank in an endgame party because of how invincible mages and rogues are with krak procs, and we have a class that definitely needs some buffs to keep up.


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[Taughtmage]

If kraken sword will buffs equivalent to bow and gun they can do all they want without the help of other class, all of warior player want to be just like assasin tank, i remember 1 sword that has a sacrifice the armor and healt (dusk sword) powerful sword but weak on armor because of minus armor when you equip maybe you can make the buffs just like that, sory for the bad english.

Imo, in the current endgame state (boss damage/elite damage is the most important factor in your efficiency for running), a warrior with 2.5k str and 60% of damage elixirs with an arc sword should do as much damage to bosses as a 2k dex/int rog/mage with no elixirs. Right now, arc sword even with way 25% more stats and 60% more dmg with elixirs, does like 1/3 of what bow/gun do. If warriors have to buff themselves and get way better awakes to do just 1/3-1/2 of the damage that mages and rogues are doing, the classes are imbalanced.


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[Rasor]

Imo, in the current endgame state (boss damage/elite damage is the most important factor in your efficiency for running), a warrior with 2.5k str and 60% of damage elixirs with an arc sword should do as much damage to bosses as a 2k dex/int rog/mage with no elixirs. Right now, arc sword even with way 25% more stats and 60% more dmg with elixirs, does like 1/3 of what bow/gun do. If warriors have to buff themselves and get way better awakes to do just 1/3-1/2 of the damage that mages and rogues are doing, the classes are imbalanced.


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+100


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[Cherybom]

Please value rogue characters now. While there are vigilant effects for warrior and kershal vanity effects for mage, there are no special effects for rogue characters. Also an effect for kraken artif can be nice.

[recilencia123]

Imo, in the current endgame state (boss damage/elite damage is the most important factor in your efficiency for running), a warrior with 2.5k str and 60% of damage elixirs with an arc sword should do as much damage to bosses as a 2k dex/int rog/mage with no elixirs. Right now, arc sword even with way 25% more stats and 60% more dmg with elixirs, does like 1/3 of what bow/gun do. If warriors have to buff themselves and get way better awakes to do just 1/3-1/2 of the damage that mages and rogues are doing, the classes are imbalanced.


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Nah u wrong, test first then comment

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[Rasor]

This “buff” of the sword should have been done when it first came out, damage buff is needed on the sword forsure and I’m fr curious do devs just not play warrior class at all?( not being toxic or anything just being realistic like do y’all just ignore warrior class?)


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