All I know is that I can own level 30 mages with my shivering x-bow.
My point is, sure the F items are over powered but no one told you to use them, if STS has a plan for them then let STS work it out, for now just go with the flow...
Thread: The forgotten difference
All I know is that I can own level 30 mages with my shivering x-bow.
My point is, sure the F items are over powered but no one told you to use them, if STS has a plan for them then let STS work it out, for now just go with the flow...
I remember the arguement, and that was a big reason I posted this. The pics prove that the sbl is a fair match for the oh so common talon and shield, even the sbl proc can be beaten by a smart opponent. The difference is that these are not equal to anything, and anyone with a brain can use the f bow to beat anyone without an f bow at low level. Its just OP, why must everyone argue away from the obvious solution of balancing it?Originally Posted by GoodSyntax
Thank you for your words of wisdom, now go away
Check the other posts I said that to, then check yourself.
I guess I'm really arguing against the concept of nerfing/rebalancing in general. I agree, F-Bows are OP'd and take no skill at all to use in PvP. I just don't like it when things get nerfed - it is an unsettling approach that does have repercussions. Frankly, OP'd items should be something that devs are aware of before they get into the general population - I can't imagine that everyone in STS would claim that they weren't aware of the stats relative to other weapons at each level - I mean, they took the time to give a name to each leveled item.
Honestly, I really don't know how many items have been nerfed in-game, but I can't imagine it has occurred often. The F-Bows have already had a base stat requirement adjustment which affected my Dex-Bear, I just don't want to get into a situation where every time I log in, something in my inventory is adjusted. I would much rather have the F-Bows worked out of the active game inventory through player attrition...and along the way if there are more people who get involved with PvP because they have a representative equip, then that's cool too.
Don't get me wrong Yich, I agree with your point...I just don't like nerfing as I feel it is too heavy handed of an approach to something that should be identified in development/testing. I'm not saying that it doesn't warrant a nerf, just that I don't like concept of nerfing as an acceptable approach to a poor judgement call when F-Bows were first conceptualized.
I can't imagine that the following was the inception of the F-Bow:
Techno: I want to make a super powerful bow that will be at least 2x better than anything else.
Everyone Else At STS: Wouldn't that destroy low-level PvP and create an imbalance?
Techno: I don't think so.
Everyone Else At STS: OK, we can just nerf it later if anyone says anything.
Techno: No, I'll just make OP'd armor with 100 dodge to combat it.
Everyone Else At STS: o.O You sure?
Techno: Yep. But it will only drop in premium, pay-to-play dungeons.
Everyone Else At STS: Uhh....won't people be upset if we keep nerfing things
Techno: No problem, we can just give them a Nerf Frisbee vanity shield.
Everyone Else At STS: Yeah, people love vanities. Let's go with it.
AL: Kalizzaa
Retired Officer of <Elite Runners>
Elite Chronicles: Solo guides for elite maps - No longer maintained
devs can do whatever the hell they want to do
ee hee
I agree, but I respond with this. Why? Sure, they've updated and added new items, some stronger than others slightly. Why now, have they decided that small stats are so bad, that they need to double all the stats for low level items and make a whole new balanced tier? People can act like they did it before, but no where near this kind of scale. So to those who say "adapt, get over it, move on, they did it before they'll do it again", I say nay. There's no real reason to drastically change low level, especially when making the F bows balanced would have been better. Imagine instead of spending a lot of time and effort making new gear that wouldn't have a happy medium drop rate(drop rate is high, annoys experienced players; drop rate is low, alienates new players as they would a very small survival rate, smaller than that of the previous noobs who couldnt afford WF items), they made difficult to obtain items that were balanced with the current tier (recipe armors, plat bought helms and shields, WF weaps and JT talon) and made the F bow slightly weaker than the SBL overall. This way, people that spend more time farming/moneymaking get some kind of an advantage over the new players who can get a forgotten bow very easily, but not so much of an advantage that the newer players are alienated. If STS would spend the time they planned to us making a whole new tier of gear just to balance the F bow out and instead used it to make more items that are balanced with the current tier, I think the general population would be much happier. Instead of 1 or 2 sets of gear that dominate all, there could be 5 or 6 that all work differently and succeed in different situations.
Last edited by Yich; 10-02-2012 at 02:56 PM.
I suggested this multiple times and it gets over looked. But making these threads is similar to the occupy wall street movement. Lots of talk no action. If you so committed to twink pvp why not host an epic tourney?
Off the top of my head a get 8-16 players run it across 3 levels say 10,15,20 each player has to use at least one bird,bear,and a Mage. Assign points based on where you finish in each tier and BAM crown the ultimate super duper tinker.
Something of this scope would take sometime to finish but may actually get something accomplished other than boost post counts.
While I have zero experience in running anything like this I would be happy to help
Just my 2 plat
Definitely a fun idea for a tournament, not so much support or arguement against the OP. Nice idea though.
The only thing I see with lv 10-17 pvp wrong is that if your higher lv(2+) and have a better bow, you will almost always win...
Rush or no...
It was like that before too except the lv gap was bigger, a lv 10 could take on a 15 and win (good players) now a lv 10 can only take up to around 12 unless he/she is really lucky(fat chance)
At lv 10-12, its mostly impartial
13-14, impartial
15 impartial
16-17 impartial
meaning that skill does affect the outcome..
Now I don't get what you all are ranting about how people get kills with no skills...
It doesn't occur that often against pro players...
Even rushers have an OK chance of winning depending on how fast you see him coming and buffing
Same lv, CONTRARY TO WHAT MOST PEOPLE SAY, skills do matter...
It helps a bunch if you can kite stomps rather then full on charge...
Last but not least, all I can say is how much time do you spend on forums posting????
I only seen Imp once in pvp matches out of 100 hours of pvp...
Frankly I'm done with the debate as it appears sts is. I'm simply trying to point out rather than spending time here looking for a change that may not ever happen go create change. Fact is far more people pve and level than lock at 10 or whatever level. Within a years time few people will even have these bows. Two years for now they will be the most sought after items for "pro" ( silly term IMO unless you got a Nike deal for using stomp) twinks to have. Plus who knows what Halloween and wf holds for ya. Basically I'm saying move on an find a way to have fun and let the angst go. It'll make ya go bald...Definitely a fun idea for a tournament, not so much support or arguement against the OP. Nice idea though.
Just my 2 plat
So, everything is all about very lower level pvp and forgotten bows.
First off, I dont like to pvp at this levels though I easily can end up with 4x death kill ratio, the only reason behind it is I've only buffs and TO SPAM 2 to 3 HITS ALL THE TIME. I dont just love to kill, I love strategic fight. Though that's my personal opinion may be nothing to do with this.
At this levels we all know bears are op they've grown up thinking we're real pros beating others easily noone then complained about them and ask devs to nerf them, cuz they've also grown up seeing this. what they do, they use bows to spam their damage and other few hit skills , so a high damage bow+6points damage buff, approx +30.
I never get this point, why a bow users hate forgotten bows, if it's op he can also get the benefit, the one point is yeah those bows are cheap, I've spent lot of money thinking newbs cant buy it. The weird thing is that, peoples says "a noob can beat a pro with FB easily" is that real, then I can bet either he's not noob, or you are not pro. A fb in the hand of a real newb is nothing more than a toy. Without proper build, proper skill point distribution he can only beat another newb.
Lets look at the closest op bow, snowball launcher, I wonder why did not any one want to nerf it, it was I would say it is much more overpowered than previous one, beside damages and dps it has special powers. Most of the cases people only see the external things and ignore internal matter, Ex when I was a newb alway used to see the dps of a weapon, but not going in the way I understand it now, just saying daggers are fail at pvp. Just for the range? No not at all, I just want say folks look at the damage and say wow so much extra dmg and dps, it obviously op, though that's not the point always. @yich in your original post you said, you can unfreez yourself by heal, screen etc, but then your wasting your valuable time/skill to unfreez yourself and snow continues to flow.
Easy there, this forum has enough hate on it.
If you can't be corrected and/or receive any feedback on this thread then whats the point of the thread?
I guess I just assumed you were trolling and or didnt read the OP. "no one is forcing you to use the f bow"?? Really? Quote where I wrote that anyone HAS to use it. If anything, I said it would be foolish not to use it, and explained why in the OP. Its overpowered, you cant argue it isnt (i think), so a "get over it" isnt really a constructive post here.
The proc for the SBL is random, as it has always been. SBL users often times rely on the freeze and rather be safe than sorry, they get close before trying to combo, so they dont miss from range. If you are 1v1ing against the sbl and you can either A. Stomp them without them stomping you or B. save your stomp for when you are frozen and stomp them away before they stomp you, you will win. It IS beatable, many just dont think strategy enough to do that.
Also, before the F bow, bear was a very basic class against others. It was easier to be a bear, but I still think mages had more potential. Im not sure of birds, as they are a form of sorcery and black magic that I do not like. Now, birds are definitely OP as they can nuke very hard and still dodge like crazy. I use an xbow though, and it seems to get the job done.
As I see above I did not say (Quote) "Get over it" I was saying its easier to go with the flow since obvisously (500 threads about forgotten later) STS does not want to remove the bows in the near future. As for the forcing of the use of forgotten bow, you are suggesting its the only alternative by complaining about the bows stats. OP or not this issue has been exhausted on the forums and it should be obvious by now that no amount of threads will change STS's mind on this, so why not just accept it and move on with life?
I assumed since they fixed the bow problem at some levels, theyd fix it at low level as well. Since everyone argued against me and others about it being nerfed before, it wasnt clear what the community thought about bows at low level. This thread is to show everyone that it is OP, not just tell them. If STS nerfed it, that would be great, as this is just proves the bows are OP and theyve never made something this OP before at low level.
Ive noticed lately that I have no idea what Im talking about as far as the motives of STS are concerned, considering the glyph drop rate and FH recipe drop rates were both raised. I am now beginning to question what STS is doing with their game.
Maybe this there way of getting people to pay for the new winter and Halloween dungeons! They alone have the power to destroy the forgotten, MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
At the same time this gave more people a chance in pvp, at 17 if you had a pink Xbow, tinsel, or Sbl you'd win. Now more people have a chance to win.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Proud Member of:
<The Community Guild> PL Chars: Sryyoulose L76, swept L10
SL Chars: Sryyoulose L40, Affair L28, XPLX L20
Ive been twinking in PL for ages, and I lovr the Forgotten Bows. They add something that level out the advantages of every class. E.g. an FB bowmage at level 15 now has a legitimate chance of beating a 15 dexbear.
So yea, a good argument, and a different point of view, but I have to disagree. One question though, whats that thunder hammer in your LV17's inventory? Thanks
-jm
L15 Mage - Certificates. L12 Behr - Certificate. L15 Teamer Mage - Duuq
THE DUUQS WILL RULE.
I tried subtle, tried polite so now let's try blunt. The op is slightly insulting implying that end game users can't look at the stats. The people affected are a small group of players that twink. See crims and others recent tourneys as examples of pvp moving on. It's time you did the same
Just my 2 plat
I wouldn't put it like this at all, but Kraze is right. Sts doesn't have any intention of nerfing. I've tried to find out why. I thought maybe they would be making more $$$ if they don't nerf them. I can't see how though...Seems like without them nerfed people won't continue buying the plat item packs. Makes me wonder if Halloween and Christmas items will be pay per run and the gear will outshine even forgotten. Just a thought.
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