The forgotten difference

[Kraze]

I tried subtle, tried polite so now let's try blunt. The op is slightly insulting implying that end game users can't look at the stats. The people affected are a small group of players that twink. See crims and others recent tourneys as examples of pvp moving on. It's time you did the same

I wouldn't put it like this at all, but Kraze is right. Sts doesn't have any intention of nerfing. I've tried to find out why. I thought maybe they would be making more $$$ if they don't nerf them. I can't see how though...Seems like without them nerfed people won't continue buying the plat item packs. Makes me wonder if Halloween and Christmas items will be pay per run and the gear will outshine even forgotten. Just a thought.

I said almost the same thing four pages ago with no success. As a side note yich I've noticed that you are really quick to point out to people that double posting is frowned on. In fact I've seen threads where that will be your only post and you won't even comment on the thread itself. How many times have you done that in this thread?

[Reunegade]

The thing about Halloween and Christmas items is that over the past 2 yrs. all the stats on the Halloween and Christmas stuff were the same as their "type" of item as the year before (i.e. duckfoot has same stats as sbl). So the chances that the stats will change on the items will be very slim.

[Yich]

The thing about Halloween and Christmas items is that over the past 2 yrs. all the stats on the Halloween and Christmas stuff were the same as their "type" of item as the year before (i.e. duckfoot has same stats as sbl). So the chances that the stats will change on the items will be very slim.

Techno did say something about making an item to balance out the F bow. Also, duckfoot and sbl had around the same stats as the talon, so WF items weren't op as someone else said here.

I said almost the same thing four pages ago with no success. As a side note yich I've noticed that you are really quick to point out to people that double posting is frowned on. In fact I've seen threads where that will be your only post and you won't even comment on the thread itself. How many times have you done that in this thread?

If you're talking about when I use two posts to quote two different people, that's from when I'm on a small device and can't hit the multi-quote button, so I double post. If you look back to threads where I do point it out, it's usually on a post that isn't quoting anything, or where they could have pressed enter twice and separated their reply to a quote and their words of wisdom to that particular thread.

[Elyseon]

The thing about Halloween and Christmas items is that over the past 2 yrs. all the stats on the Halloween and Christmas stuff were the same as their "type" of item as the year before (i.e. duckfoot has same stats as sbl). So the chances that the stats will change on the items will be very slim.

Techno did say something about making an item to balance out the F bow. Also, duckfoot and sbl had around the same stats as the talon, so WF items weren't op as someone else said here.

Yeh but the WF gun actually had snow proc which actually stacked an armour debuff, increasing it's dmg on the opponent

[Yich]

Yeh but the WF gun actually had snow proc which actually stacked an armour debuff, increasing it's dmg on the opponent

a debuff that could be removed if the proper skill was used. If I am correct, the talon would win auto for auto, no skills being used.

[Elyseon]

Yeh but the WF gun actually had snow proc which actually stacked an armour debuff, increasing it's dmg on the opponent

a debuff that could be removed if the proper skill was used. If I am correct, the talon would win auto for auto, no skills being used.

Actually an xbow would and still will win auto and no skills, 13m gives no chance for opponent to deal any dmg
Forgotten bow would have 10m range

I used xbow at 15 and 16 like a year ago, and could kite non xbows and skills

Imo low level was destroyed long ago, a 30 dmg buff is ridiculous for only dealing like 20 on opponents with unbuffed auto

Other levels i have seen are 35-40 which actually allow dex birds to have a chance, mages with wands are not useless, but they are no longer the OP beast they once were at this level
At 45 the new bows are a weapon of choice, but a shock lance bear is still a good option and ballistas are still effective
From 50-endgame
Despite the increase dmg, set bonuses still make sets the better choice

Yeh they can make pvp amateurs much better
They are obviously here to stay
The complaints on this are no where near what i remember with gcd

Im not saying your point isnt valid, i just think its not necessary

If you want to get rid of these bows, take up merching and offer refuseably high offers to the owners

[Elyseon]

Also shattering doesnt unfreeze birds, its the nearly useless avian scream that does that and it needs rank 4 or 5
A build you would never find on a low level bird

Also im pretty sure its a -35% hit debuff

[hemanbeast]

Also shattering doesnt unfreeze birds, its the nearly useless avian scream that does that and it needs rank 4 or 5
A build you would never find on a low level bird

Also im pretty sure its a -35% hit debuff

Here is where we can determine that you have never twinked much down under 20, or at least haven't in the last few weeks/months

If you did you would KNOW that ALL the birds (decent ones) were dodge toy man birds, and it was and is still more than likely that shatter would NEVER land on a bird. In 10 tries at least. When the birds has evade going. You would also know a regular 18 bird was just a teensy bit worse than a level 18 bear with a regular level 18 build. Damage was never a big problem when you can dodge that many hits.

Mages had kiting and (SURPRISE) Nuking. Onebeastmage, jiven or jivon or whatever, and zetris (possibly) were better than 90% of the bear population under 17.
However, mages have been really impaired by these new bows, leaving birds as the new strong class with nothing to even the field.

[Yich]

Here is where we can determine that you have never twinked much down under 20, or at least haven't in the last few weeks/months

If you did you would KNOW that ALL the birds (decent ones) were dodge toy man birds, and it was and is still more than likely that shatter would NEVER land on a bird. In 10 tries at least. When the birds has evade going. You would also know a regular 18 bird was just a teensy bit worse than a level 18 bear with a regular level 18 build. Damage was never a big problem when you can dodge that many hits.

Mages had kiting and (SURPRISE) Nuking. Onebeastmage, jiven or jivon or whatever, and zetris (possibly) were better than 90% of the bear population under 17.
However, mages have been really impaired by these new bows, leaving birds as the new strong class with nothing to even the field.

Eggggggzactly.

[Like-A-Boss]

The proc for the SBL is random, as it has always been. SBL users often times rely on the freeze and rather be safe than sorry, they get close before trying to combo, so they dont miss from range. If you are 1v1ing against the sbl and you can either A. Stomp them without them stomping you or B. save your stomp for when you are frozen and stomp them away before they stomp you, you will win. It IS beatable, many just dont think strategy enough to do that.

Also, before the F bow, bear was a very basic class against others. It was easier to be a bear, but I still think mages had more potential. Im not sure of birds, as they are a form of sorcery and black magic that I do not like. Now, birds are definitely OP as they can nuke very hard and still dodge like crazy. I use an xbow though, and it seems to get the job done.

I assumed since they fixed the bow problem at some levels, theyd fix it at low level as well. Since everyone argued against me and others about it being nerfed before, it wasnt clear what the community thought about bows at low level. This thread is to show everyone that it is OP, not just tell them. If STS nerfed it, that would be great, as this is just proves the bows are OP and theyve never made something this OP before at low level.

Ive noticed lately that I have no idea what Im talking about as far as the motives of STS are concerned, considering the glyph drop rate and FH recipe drop rates were both raised. I am now beginning to question what STS is doing with their game.

From what you say Yich, the reason you don't like these new updates are because you are uncomfortable with them. You don't know what is going to be next and can't find a 100% way to kill every FB bow person there is out there. That is part of the game, to change and adapt. Before fbows, you felt like you were GOD, have an ironclad strategy to kill everyone no matter what wep is being used. Now fbows come out and you realize that some parts of pvp aren't 100% skills and formulated strategies... That is all part of the game. STS wants the game to become not just some boring, constantly easy to master game. So they push new features out. Some may be more game changing then others.

But from what I gather, it seems like your very conservative, like John Adams and his son John Quincy Adams. All you guys do is try to keep the situation the same with no improvements. Why? Because improvements means risk taking and fear of that is something all three of you (Both Adams and Yich) have in common. Well know what these two "presidents" have in similar? They didn't get reelected and got owned by mass majority of the people and not the elite....

[Yich]

From what you say Yich, the reason you don't like these new updates are because you are uncomfortable with them. You don't know what is going to be next and can't find a 100% way to kill every FB bow person there is out there. That is part of the game, to change and adapt. Before fbows, you felt like you were GOD, have an ironclad strategy to kill everyone no matter what wep is being used. Now fbows come out and you realize that some parts of pvp aren't 100% skills and formulated strategies... That is all part of the game. STS wants the game to become not just some boring, constantly easy to master game. So they push new features out. Some may be more game changing then others.

But from what I gather, it seems like your very conservative, like John Adams and his son John Quincy Adams. All you guys do is try to keep the situation the same with no improvements. Why? Because improvements means risk taking and fear of that is something all three of you (Both Adams and Yich) have in common. Well know what these two "presidents" have in similar? They didn't get reelected and got owned by mass majority of the people and not the elite....

If adding the forgotten bow and its op stats into the game was an improvement, so was raising the drop rate for FH recipes and 56 glyph. Take that anyway you want.

[Elyseon]

Also shattering doesnt unfreeze birds, its the nearly useless avian scream that does that and it needs rank 4 or 5
A build you would never find on a low level bird

Also im pretty sure its a -35% hit debuff

Here is where we can determine that you have never twinked much down under 20, or at least haven't in the last few weeks/months

If you did you would KNOW that ALL the birds (decent ones) were dodge toy man birds, and it was and is still more than likely that shatter would NEVER land on a bird. In 10 tries at least. When the birds has evade going. You would also know a regular 18 bird was just a teensy bit worse than a level 18 bear with a regular level 18 build. Damage was never a big problem when you can dodge that many hits.

Mages had kiting and (SURPRISE) Nuking. Onebeastmage, jiven or jivon or whatever, and zetris (possibly) were better than 90% of the bear population under 17.
However, mages have been really impaired by these new bows, leaving birds as the new strong class with nothing to even the field.

That had absolutely nothing to do with my post, I did know most birds were wand/dodge
And I mages did kite,

My post you quoted said nothing about that

But since u are the expert, enlighten me
Do birds use avian scream 4 or 5?

And does the forgotten bow not have a 35% hit debuff

[hemanbeast]

That had absolutely nothing to do with my post, I did know most birds were wand/dodge
And I mages did kite,

My post you quoted said nothing about that

But since u are the expert, enlighten me
Do birds use avian scream 4 or 5?

And does the forgotten bow not have a 35% hit debuff

This also proves you haven't been practicing your reading comprehension in the last few months. I stated that birds have EVADE *AKA DODGE* and MORE THAN LIKELY (Key Word HERE!) that SHATTER would not WORK. If the Freeze Proc worked, most of the time, the STOMP would not! Want to know why?

With Evade, most of the birds have around 50% DODGE. Now do the math, kind sir, and tell me what the chances are that two hits in a row would hit theoretically, as well as experimentally.


And to answer your question, no birds to not use avian scream in low level, except those old level 20 peppermint pounders when we had 1 avian.

EDIT: To make this easier for you, I have my final statement HERE: Birds do not need to break out of shatter because they hardly ever get AFFECTED by shatter.

[Elyseon]

This also proves you haven't been practicing your reading comprehension in the last few months. I stated that birds have EVADE *AKA DODGE* and MORE THAN LIKELY (Key Word HERE!) that SHATTER would not WORK. If the Freeze Proc worked, most of the time, the STOMP would not! Want to know why?

With Evade, most of the birds have around 50% DODGE. Now do the math, kind sir, and tell me what the chances are that two hits in a row would hit theoretically, as well as experimentally.


And to answer your question, no birds to not use avian scream in low level, except those old level 20 peppermint pounders when we had 1 avian.

maybe i should have quoted text in my comment you quoted, one sec

[Elyseon]

The forgotten proc debuffs hit percentage down 30%

Also im pretty sure its a -35% hit debuff

"Oh but the SBL freezes, silly ".Birds can use shatter to free themselves.

Also shattering doesnt unfreeze birds, its the nearly useless avian scream that does that and it needs rank 4 or 5
A build you would never find on a low level bird

there now maybe you understand me, sry wasnt very clear first time

[hemanbeast]

there now maybe you understand me, sry wasnt very clear first time

Sry, I definitely quoted wrong quote then. I was responding to the one where you said you xbowed 15 - 16 about 13m range and stuff.
Have a nice day sir, I'm going to sleep. Until then, try making a level 15 or 12 twink. I'll get some people to try you out with xbow, talons, and then we'll see if you notice the difference with OP Bow.

GL and have fun.
See ya in Alterra, if you do come down here.

[Yich]

there now maybe you understand me, sry wasnt very clear first time

Even still, SBL wasn't OP against birds in the first place. When fighting birds at low level, the primary goal is to get off as many shots before dying (you know, cuz the dodge). Since talon and SBL are close in DPS, having more armor is significantly better. When ever I fight a good bird like vv or lost (ya know, people who didnt need the f bow), I always use talon. The armor allows for a longer life expectancy, and lets you get more hits off. Now with op birds using the f bow, I use an xbow and kite them pretty hard. It doesn't always work out in a 1v1, but in 2v2 me and Entertaining still do pretty good at low level.

[Elyseon]

Well true I haven't done it in like 6 mos lol

Nor do I like at all anymore last time I tried to get back into it I beat some guy 1v1 he raged started rushing me, kept losing then called in some of his guild to team me so I hopped out

[Kraze]

Well true I haven't done it in like 6 mos lol

Nor do I like at all anymore last time I tried to get back into it I beat some guy 1v1 he raged started rushing me, kept losing then called in some of his guild to team me so I hopped out

And the last few rage posts bring me back to what I have said numerous of times the complaints and random rage posts accomplish nothing. We get it you are mad about the bows. Get over it.

Plenty of pvp going on without them. Go host a tourney or find the other like minded players and just don't pvp against people that use the super mega bow of sad face.

[Techno Email]

Thanks for the detailed review and screenshots. This was a good, informative read!