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    Default Items Borrowing

    Hi all,

    AL is a very social game that even has a marriage system. I'd argue that a lot of players log in for the social aspect of the game more than even the PvE or PvP aspect.

    With that in mind, being able to lend or borrow items should have been implemented long ago. This can be easily achievable with few restrictions in place:

    1) Only Items can be borrowed

    2) The owner can decide on the duration.

    3) The borrowed items become account bound (can't be stashed, can't be traded)

    4) Borrowed items can't be sold in the inventory

    5) Borrowed items can't be awakened.

    6) You can not delete your character while you are borrowing an item.

    7) The borrowed item automatically returns to the original owner's inventory after the lending duration ends no matter what happens.

    This could help prevent a lot of scams while players can still keep up their goodwill towards their friends.

    Let me know if you see any flaws in the system other than it being a pain for the developers to create, lol.

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    This idea have been brought many times if i rem and here is the obvious answer to this:
    Name:  Screen Shot 2023-11-06 at 12.49.43 PM.png
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    Quote Originally Posted by PatD View Post
    This idea have been brought many times if i rem and here is the obvious answer to this:
    Name:  Screen Shot 2023-11-06 at 12.49.43 PM.png
Views: 207
Size:  69.2 KB
    Except people still do lend items even if there's a chance of getting scammed, so might as well make a more secure way of lending it.

    I don't see a scam happening because the items will inevitably return to the original owner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ploid View Post
    Except people still do lend items even if there's a chance of getting scammed, so might as well make a more secure way of lending it.

    I don't see a scam happening because the items will inevitably return to the original owner.

    Sent from my Pixel 7a using Tapatalk
    The main point here i think is: "it destroys the need for anyone to 'earn' items"

    And i really believe that is what would happen imo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ploid View Post
    Except people still do lend items even if there's a chance of getting scammed, so might as well make a more secure way of lending it.

    I don't see a scam happening because the items will inevitably return to the original owner.

    Sent from my Pixel 7a using Tapatalk
    Even if we ignore the scam aspect every issue Cinco mentioned is still relevant
    The idea creates a ton of work for devs & basically doesn’t do much for the game

    Do not lend gear you aren’t willing to loose- universal game rule
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    borrowing system free of charge or borrowing system where player must pay to borrow - both will cause player to prefer rent over buy, thus disrupting power gap between poor and rich players and then sts business, it's a risky idea.

    but +1 lol

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    Default Items Borrowing

    I would assume richies with amazing gear would still charge a fee to borrow too. Maybe it’s free, but you’d have to be good friends with them.

    As someone with some pretty great gear, I would love this idea and would only lend to those I’ve made good connections with. Friends / family. I think this goes for anyone.

    If someone random were to ask about borrowing my gear, it could be another way for us to get some gold back for our long investment into the gear itself. This said, it’s not like someone could afford to borrow my entire set, and if they did, they’d have enough to start buying their own gear

    This could also narrow the gap between rich players and poor players. Allowing poor players a chance to use a 500gl Venal set for 1 day during EZG by paying x amount to a rich player. Thus giving them 24hrs to make some profit gold before the item returns itself back to the original owner.


    Oh, annnnnd lets not forget guild masters and how they could use this to help build their guild stronger!

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    Less myths and arcane would need looted from crates meaning lower plat being used so this would never happen. Basically sts would destroy their form of income.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imfeared View Post
    Less myths and arcane would need looted from crates meaning lower plat being used so this would never happen. Basically sts would destroy their form of income.
    What? How?

    So because I have a 30ms krak armor and someone borrowed from me (meaning not even I have it to use anymore), now everyone doesnt need krak armor?

    This logic makes no sense, borrowing happens every single day already. The same amount of items are still in circulation between players. This isnt a duplication glitch for items. Its nearly the same thing as selling it, and buying it back at a later date.

    People will 101% still need their own gears when borrowing isnt always available. And even when it is available, certain items at certain times are available.

    Again, its not a free for all duplication glitch bro, its literally just giving someone your item and making sure it comes back on said date. The person lending isnt able to use it, its in the borrowers inventory.


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    Not seeing the scam doesn't mean there isn't a whole new avenue of scamming built in to a borrow system.

    TBH tho I love that you don't see the scam inherent in a sanctioned 'borrowing' system - it means that you've got a good heart!! :-)

    And with respect to hurting the trade economy and Spacetime's business, I stand by my statement of facts from years ago.

    Not saying there's no room for debate. I think the debate on this is good social friction.


    Best wishes!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    Not seeing the scam doesn't mean there isn't a whole new avenue of scamming built in to a borrow system.

    TBH tho I love that you don't see the scam inherent in a sanctioned 'borrowing' system - it means that you've got a good heart!! :-)

    And with respect to hurting the trade economy and Spacetime's business, I stand by my statement of facts from years ago.

    Not saying there's no room for debate. I think the debate on this is good social friction.


    Best wishes!
    Awhhh fineee, I guess I’ll pout another day
    Jkjk just thought it was a cool lil idea for those starting the game but i guess in some way people always find bad avenues.

    Much love! Been so many cool changes over the years, we appreciate them all, small or large!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    Not seeing the scam doesn't mean there isn't a whole new avenue of scamming built in to a borrow system.

    TBH tho I love that you don't see the scam inherent in a sanctioned 'borrowing' system - it means that you've got a good heart!! :-)
    It is understandable to be cautious about potential scams in any system, and it's great that you approach it skeptically, but this can hinder your company from making any growth if you keep a prudent outlook.

    I know that it has more something to do with your business model, but remember that you also have to think about what your community wants and what makes them happy (albeit not everything the community wants should be followed, but you get my point).

    Remember, a happy customer is more likely to stay and support your game long-term, which would help your game progress and develop.

    And, oh, some of your player base are already having their items rented through the current trading system. So why not create something more secure than having it down under the current trade system, which is riskier for potential scams or exploitation?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    And with respect to hurting the trade economy and Spacetime's business, I stand by my statement of facts from years ago.
    I disagree with your statement. Not everyone will just 'simply' rent an item all the time because it may be cheaper in the short term but gets expensive long term. Furthermore, renting creates variety and flexibility, which the game is currently lacking in the game.

    Lastly, if STS is more concerned about scamming and exploiting issues, don't the game have in-game support to deal with this issue? Sounds like a manpower/staffing problem from the looks of it. Maybe hiring in-game support staff volunteers is a good option if this is the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    Not saying there's no room for debate. I think the debate on this is good social friction.
    Well, I do agree discussion of such topics can lead to a better understanding of complex issues. However, it is pointless if your stance is set in stone. Just sayin'.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    Not seeing the scam doesn't mean there isn't a whole new avenue of scamming built in to a borrow system.

    TBH tho I love that you don't see the scam inherent in a sanctioned 'borrowing' system - it means that you've got a good heart!! :-)

    And with respect to hurting the trade economy and Spacetime's business, I stand by my statement of facts from years ago.

    Not saying there's no room for debate. I think the debate on this is good social friction.


    Best wishes!
    Wouldn't there also be a possibility of people being able to buy their own items by using the borrowed items to grind?

    Just sayin it can also cause prosperity. Even in the real world people rent houses while saving up to buy one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    Not seeing the scam doesn't mean there isn't a whole new avenue of scamming built in to a borrow system.

    TBH tho I love that you don't see the scam inherent in a sanctioned 'borrowing' system - it means that you've got a good heart!! :-)

    And with respect to hurting the trade economy and Spacetime's business, I stand by my statement of facts from years ago.

    Not saying there's no room for debate. I think the debate on this is good social friction.


    Best wishes!
    I think that borrowing system is definitely something worth looking into, if implemented correctly, similar to auction when you can list your items at a cost for duration similar to how listing duration works. I would definitely like to rent out my items for passive income or even borrow just so people could use them (Especially vanities)

    Also maybe something worth considering is a buy order auction? where a buyer can list their price for an item , the seller can pick the highest offer currently for quick gold

    A challenge for this system would probably be the catalog of items the buyer will have to select the item from, And for equipment, The system will most likely not take the awaks into account.



    As for hurting the spacetime economy, i think it will most likely help it, people will definitely open alot more crates as items needs to be unboxed to rent them out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by achievements View Post
    What? How?

    So because I have a 30ms krak armor and someone borrowed from me (meaning not even I have it to use anymore), now everyone doesnt need krak armor?

    This logic makes no sense, borrowing happens every single day already. The same amount of items are still in circulation between players. This isnt a duplication glitch for items. Its nearly the same thing as selling it, and buying it back at a later date.

    People will 101% still need their own gears when borrowing isnt always available. And even when it is available, certain items at certain times are available.

    Again, its not a free for all duplication glitch bro, its literally just giving someone your item and making sure it comes back on said date. The person lending isnt able to use it, its in the borrowers inventory.


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    To answer your question on how...
    Say I play 2hrs a day now I have 22hrs everyday to rent items out. I rent them out to other players at 2hr intervals. That's 11 players now that do not need to have any/all gear necessary. Remember other players that do have good/meta gear are doing this same thing. Take into account also the awakes of gear and the jewels that are slotted as well. The 2 hrs and number of players renting is an example of course but any number plugged here would lessen the need for new gear introduced through locks and plat being used for elite awakes.

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    Renting top gear in exchange for gold to do lbs would become a common thing (and all the scams coming with that). Right now people at least need to own some items for insurance of the same worth to do that.

    Only benefits I see is a shortcut to buying own gear and an opportunity to make gold renting out items. I'm against both.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imfeared View Post
    To answer your question on how...
    Say I play 2hrs a day now I have 22hrs everyday to rent items out. I rent them out to other players at 2hr intervals. That's 11 players now that do not need to have any/all gear necessary. Remember other players that do have good/meta gear are doing this same thing. Take into account also the awakes of gear and the jewels that are slotted as well. The 2 hrs and number of players renting is an example of course but any number plugged here would lessen the need for new gear introduced through locks and plat being used for elite awakes.
    excellent point, this ideas creates a PASSIVE permanent gold loot map, when this game needs more gold sinks

    also this idea would create an excellent opportunity for the black market to move gold around under the guise of a sanctioned game function undetectably - just hand out some thing that you have no chance of loosing & gain $ without red flags

    there is no good reason for this as it does not help sts, & there are reasons it is not necessary for the growth of the game
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