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Thread: Guide in understanding the loot table

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    Senior Member Fwend's Avatar
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    Default Guide in understanding the loot table

    Guide to Vanity loot
    and when to use LUCK and NO LUCK



    Many on game have asked me when to wear luck and when not to wear luck to loot the best drop?
    What most need to consider is what type of items in the loot table are dropping in the map they are farming and what they are farming for.

    Each individual event zone and map is different and you as a player need to think about the order in which the rarity of items are on the loot table and what items can be looted, then you use the appropriate equipment and elixirs which can assist you to get what you desire.



    Loot table
    (rarity of items)

    Trash
    Common
    Uncommon
    Rare
    Epic
    Legendary
    Elite
    VANITY
    Mythical
    Arcane

    The loot table shows the order in which rarity of items that can be dropped and when you reroll you have a chance to drop an item on the loot table that is higher on the loot table depending on the percentage of how much luck you have.

    When you have luck% and or Reroll, it gives you a chance of chance to re-roll for a more rare item. (100% luck is maximum, any more than this is not necessary to reroll)

    MYTHIC OR ARCANE

    Wear gear that has at least 100% luck, this will ensure that you reroll every time, it doesn't guarantee you the best drop of a Mythic or Arcane. It allows you to reroll your drop into a better drop higher on the loot table

    VANITY

    Luck does not help (or hurt) for vanity drops.
    - Futumsh (Spacetime Studios Developer

    This has been confirmed by the makers of our game luck does not affect looting vanity items at all because Vanity rarity do not reroll. And it is a direct drop.
    Last edited by Fwend; 01-12-2024 at 06:49 PM.

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    Member Estate's Avatar
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    Is there any level of luck that is able to be tested in which it gives you the optimal re-roll?

    Having no luck wouldn't re-roll an original vanity drop, but it wouldn't re-roll an Elite to a Vanity.

    Obviously it depends on where you are farming, but say that all loot is droppable, wouldn't having some luck percentage be better to re-roll for a vanity versus none?

    The only situation in which having no luck seems helpful is where the drop table contains only a small amount of possible levels.

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    Senior Member Fwend's Avatar
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    Is there any level of luck that is able to be tested in which it gives you the optimal re-roll?
    Generally speaking no, as long as you have at least 100% it will guarantee you to reroll each time you get a drop.


    Having no luck wouldn't re-roll an original vanity drop, but it wouldn't re-roll an Elite to a Vanity.
    That statement is correct.


    Obviously it depends on where you are farming, but say that all loot is droppable, wouldn't having some luck percentage be better to re-roll for a vanity versus none?
    You are forgetting each event zone or map the loot differs, so you need to think what is in the loot table to determine to weak luck or not as well as the 60 plat elixir of Classy Looter. Any percentage of luck can indeed have a chance to reroll your vanity originally and you can lose it, if there are mythic and arcance items in the loot table.

    This elixir Classy Looter
    Name:  Screenshot_2023.11.29_07.28.35.265.png
Views: 276
Size:  53.1 KB

    awards you 100% chance of class specific loot

    Meaning if equipment (eg. level 115 Mythic gear) is dropping, that means it will reduce the loot table by 2/3 and will give you a better chance to loot your class items (ensure your specifications are fully one class of DEX, INT or STR) and will increase the rate of elixirs or crafting materials

    But if no equipment is dropping in that map you are farming then classy looter elixir will have no effect at all, and it is useless to use it and waste your platinum



    The only situation in which having no luck seems helpful is where the drop table contains only a small amount of possible levels.
    That is not true, you need to think and look what is dropping in the map you are farming. As well as what rarity of loot you are trying to get.

    Look at the rarity of the items , look at what is actually dropping in that particular map, then decide if you want which item. Will luck will indeed reroll that item into a higher rarity and you can loose your original drop. Which could be vanity item or a crafting material that is low on the loot table?
    Last edited by Fwend; 11-29-2023 at 03:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Estate View Post

    The only situation in which having no luck seems helpful is where the drop table contains only a small amount of possible levels.
    There are or were events in which you needed to farm materials to craft keys to event dungeons in which one of the mats needed was a trash item. With 100% re roll you could not drop the mat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ImRandy View Post
    With 100% re roll you could not drop the mat.
    My point exactly. 100% obviously gives you a 100% preroll chance but lets say there is 4 levels, the lowest of which being elite. That means 100% would actually be non-optimal. I would love if someone could take the time to do the math and the optimal % of luck for specifically vanity dropping. Crafting dropping sounds like around 0% is optimal and Arcane obviously 100%>. However depending on the amount of levels and loot dropped in each zone, there should be an optimal % able to be calculated for dropping vanity items.

    For example: In ____ map there are __ amount of levels including (...rare, epic, legendary etc) and thus the optimal % of luck to re-roll to the most vanities = ___ based on the following math (then showing the work ofc)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Estate View Post
    My point exactly. 100% obviously gives you a 100% preroll chance but lets say there is 4 levels, the lowest of which being elite. That means 100% would actually be non-optimal. I would love if someone could take the time to do the math and the optimal % of luck for specifically vanity dropping. Crafting dropping sounds like around 0% is optimal and Arcane obviously 100%>. However depending on the amount of levels and loot dropped in each zone, there should be an optimal % able to be calculated for dropping vanity items.

    For example: In ____ map there are __ amount of levels including (...rare, epic, legendary etc) and thus the optimal % of luck to re-roll to the most vanities = ___ based on the following math (then showing the work ofc)
    There is no optimal percentage of luck, all you need to think about is once you have 100% luck is is enough for you to reroll each time.

    It doesn't guarantee you the rarity or drop that is the highest on the loot table. It just ensures you do actually reroll every single time you get a drop.

    And when you do farm think about is the drop you desire at risk of reroll when it is a lower rarity on the loot table?? Each and every Map is different and you need to think and decide if luck will affect the original drop if you do have 100% Luck or more.
    Last edited by Fwend; 01-12-2024 at 06:51 PM.

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    For those of you into STEM. Here is a proof:
    I am attempting to do statistics. In a game based around percentages I want to find the optimal one. Just like poker, or the three door and 2 goats and one car doors problem problem everyone has encountered in school.

    Probabilities:
    - Probability of Elite Rerolling to Vanity (P(E→V)):
    If you get an Elite item, the probability that it rerolls to Vanity is simply L. Thus, P(E→V)=L

    - Probability of Vanity Rerolling to Mythical (P(V→M)):
    If you get a Vanity item, the probability that it rerolls to Mythical is also L. Thus, P(V→M)=L

    Objectives:
    - Maximize: P(E→V) which is the probability of Elite becoming Vanity.
    - Minimize: P(V→M) which is the probability of Vanity becoming Mythical.
    - 0≤L≤1 (Luck percentage can't be negative & does not matter if > 100%).

    Goal:
    Find the value of L that maximizes P(E→V) while minimizing the value of P(V→M).

    Thus:
    - Equal Probabilities: Since both probabilities are equal then P(E→V)=P(V→M)=L. This means that increasing L improves your chances of getting to reroll a Vanity from Elite drops but also increases the risk of losing a Vanity to a reroll to a Mythical drop.

    Solution Approach:
    - Utility Function: Define a utility function that weighs the benefit of getting Vanity items against the cost of losing them to Mythical rerolls. For example, if you value getting a Vanity item twice as much as you dislike losing one to Mythical, you could use a utility function like U(L)=2⋅P(E→V)−P(V→M)U(L)=2⋅P(E→V)−P(V→M)

    Optimization: Find the value of L that maximizes this utility function.
    For example, If a vanity is worth 100m and a mythical 10m gold then I can comfortably write a utility function that will calculate the optimal L value. Finding that L value is still impossible without the base drop rate percentages (%).


    The Saving Grace
    A luck percentage in the mid-range of 60%-80% is as optimal as possible and a reasonable heuristic given the equal probability of rerolling up from either Elite or Vanity

    Explanation:
    (Disclaimer, this is calculated without the base drop rates of each level of the loot table for the game or whatever map is being ran. It is as optimal as the available math will allow me to calculate)

    A mid-range luck percentage from 60%-80% is a heuristic that attempts to balance the competing priorities between P(E→V), the probability of an Elite re-rolling to a Vanity & P(V→M), the probability of a Vanity re-rolling to a Mythical .

    It isn't derived from the optimal mathematical formula due to the lack of base drop rates and also a lack of map specific loot tables. Instead, it's a practical approach that acknowledges the equal probability of re-rolling up and down while trying to maximize the benefits and minimize the risks within a reasonable range.

    100% Luck is NOT OPTIMAL for re-rolling to and acquiring Vanity rarity loot.

    P.S. You can't make a guide about "understanding the loot table" without some sort of proof. If nobody knows the base drop rates of the different rarity of items then nobody besides the code of the game has ever truly "understood" the loot table. STS Please release the loot table base drop percentages. Also if people are to keep spending real money on platinum to open crates I will be requesting the drop rates of those crates!

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    As much as I appreciate your post and calculations of probability.

    My thread was a guide to assist those to understand the loot table itself.

    I don't know how else to explain this concept to you, but I really do like the amount of effort you placed into this and appreciate your feedback.
    Last edited by Fwend; 01-22-2024 at 12:45 AM.

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    If we farm lets say a boss and he drops only or mostly elite rarity items but possible to get rare vanity item then max luck is better i think

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    Quote Originally Posted by IIXXFIREXXII View Post
    If we farm lets say a boss and he drops only or mostly elite rarity items but possible to get rare vanity item then max luck is better i think
    That is correct because luck does not help or hider to loot vanity items.
    Last edited by Fwend; 01-14-2024 at 02:00 AM.

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    The loot table is inherently impossible to understand without drop rates. I explained the luck aspect of the table. Drop rates are everything when it comes to a "loot table."

    Otherwise, i'm sure people can understand different colors = better.

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    Correct, because you can't re-roll OUT of a vanity drop

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    Quote Originally Posted by Estate View Post
    The loot table is inherently impossible to understand without drop rates. I explained the luck aspect of the table. Drop rates are everything when it comes to a "loot table."

    Otherwise, i'm sure people can understand different colors = better.
    Again I really appreciate your feedback and thank you for taking the time to express your view on this topic.
    Last edited by Fwend; 01-12-2024 at 06:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Estate View Post
    Correct, because you can't re-roll OUT of a vanity drop
    You are correct.
    Last edited by Fwend; 01-12-2024 at 06:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fwend View Post
    You can if you think about the concept.
    He was implying in the event that the highest drop in a map table is Vanity, 100% luck would be ideal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Estate View Post
    He was implying in the event that the highest drop in a map table is Vanity, 100% luck would be ideal.
    That is correct.

    This years Winter event however, from experience of previous years, the Mythic rarity items are in the loot table.
    Items like:
    All the different types of 115 Mythic equipment (for those level 113 and over)
    All the diffrerent types off 110 Mythic equipment(for those level 113 and under)
    This includes helm, weapon, armor, shield, ring, amulet for all 3 different classes
    All the mythic 5x Elixirs

    So with that in mind.

    If I want to loot a Mythic item,
    I will wear 100% or more luck items to give me a chance to reroll into a mythic rarity.

    If I wanted a Vanity item,
    Wearing 100% won't matter either, because luck doesn't help or hinder Vanity rarity drops which do not reroll.

    However after participating in this years event 2023, this is my experience.

    Using 100% luck in Escort map does in fact assist in getting higher xp orbs, as well as 5k xp instant kits, higher token amounts (ice coins) and Vanity Holiday Lights weapons and shield. Mythic equipment seems to be dropping less this year and more vanity items are being looted.

    Using luck gear and gold loot gear in the Grotto map this is year has no effect, you do not reroll drops at all , and the amount of gold drops that you do get is very little.
    So luck has no effect in looting the new Ugly Snowflake Sweater
    Last edited by Fwend; 01-12-2024 at 06:56 PM.

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