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  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: Feedback: Recent balance changes with 311726 (Hedourah, EZG, etc.)

  1.   Click here to go to the next Dev post in this thread.   #81
    Design Department Cinco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marosok View Post
    Someone here is stubborn. You're discouraging players (majority) from playing your latest PvE content and for what? Out of pride? Who are you making this content for? Certain well geared players can do the map in party, but does that mean you don't care about those without gear who can't? Is this VIP Legends? Do you think it is easy to make enough gold to buy all required pieces worth of many millions for average Joe when you decide to remove best sources? I don't blame people for not staying around longer in AL, isn't one of your goals to keep players active in game tho? What if i tell you there is another map, that can be source of infinite gold in very short time as you called Hedourah pre-nerf, you just don't know about it (as a dev you should tho), because players don't run it in high quantities. Once they start will you turn it into VIP map with buff? Come on :}
    I happily encourage you to run the maps that give you the most gold if what you want from the game is gold.

    As I wrote above - without adjusting Hedourah there was simply no reason to add anything more to it. No more loot. Nothing to chase. There was just no good reason to put effort into cool items since it could be dropped in a matter of seconds. I feel like we have opened up the possibilities here and I think it'll be good for the game in the long term.

    Especially, as you say, since there are other maps out there you can run to harvest gold.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    Saying that only premade groups of top geared players can run Hedo effectively is not accurate - nevertheless you've communicated the emotional side of this issue very well.

    Furthermore, I appreciate your candor with respect to the motives for players (who could previously solo Hedo very easily) insofar as they aren't as interested in carrying / helping as they are with gaining large amounts of gold in only a few seconds. I get this and I get how this tends to create a vicious fervor on the forums since gold loot has become so very important.

    Everyone is getting more powerful all the time. While we did go from Hedo dropping in a couple of seconds to now taking upwards of thirty seconds to a minute we'll definitely see these completion times shrink like crazy.

    From my perspective there was no reason to drop anything good from Hedo if he could be solo'ed in under 5 seconds. Now there's a reason for us to move forward with farming initiatives for Elder Woods. I hope that these future efforts entice you to run the content for reasons other than pure gold.
    You could appease us by making it 10% more manageable and increase difficulty when u actually introduce gear that can do the type of damage you have in mind. Glad to see ego is more important than actually keeping game alive. For me this was the last straw, i have no reason to invest in gear i canít enjoy. Meaning i have absolutely no reason to ever use my credit card in this game. Thank you for the change. Has been a good run.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wortwechsel View Post
    U misunderstanding something.

    I mean : i always find a Team to clear Hedo but this isnt about me .its about the others who arent strong as i am. But read the other post then u know what i mean.

    Greets

    Wortwechsel
    There are 4 normal maps and 1 portal, I think I don't need to tell you much about why the portal deserves more difficulty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by navabi View Post
    You could appease us by making it 10% more manageable and increase difficulty when u actually introduce gear that can do the type of damage you have in mind. Glad to see ego is more important than actually keeping game alive. For me this was the last straw, i have no reason to invest in gear i canít enjoy. Meaning i have absolutely no reason to ever use my credit card in this game. Thank you for the change. Has been a good run.


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    That's what i mean.dont forget your investors

  5.   Click here to go to the next Dev post in this thread.   #85
    Design Department Cinco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by navabi View Post
    You could appease us by making it 10% more manageable and increase difficulty when u actually introduce gear that can do the type of damage you have in mind.
    Yeah. That's actually quite fair.

    Given the completion times pre-buff it made a lot of sense to me that it would be more fun to fight Hedourah for at least 10 seconds or so.

    I'll take another look at how players are doing against this encounter. A full rollback may be in order - or we could nerf what we have by a decent measure (so he's not paper like he used to be, but not the "impossible" monster he is now).

    Later, when I have all the stuff that I want him to be dropping we can revisit how tough he is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Activista View Post
    There are 4 normal maps and 1 portal, I think I don't need to tell you much about why the portal deserves more difficulty.
    I don't have to tell you again that I can complete all portals. Again, it's not about me, it's about everyone.

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    We all knew this was coming, just thought it was going to be the elite map. Regardless this is just a Speed bump, new gear and new strategies will come and the community will push forward. Only down side is gl farming is ALOT slower helping only the Plat whales imo....
    Goodluck & Cya around :>

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    Yeah. That's actually quite fair.

    Given the completion times pre-buff it made a lot of sense to me that it would be more fun to fight Hedourah for at least 10 seconds or so.

    I'll take another look at how players are doing against this encounter. A full rollback may be in order - or we could nerf what we have by a decent measure (so he's not paper like he used to be, but not the "impossible" monster he is now).

    Later, when I have all the stuff that I want him to be dropping we can revisit how tough he is.
    Iím not against the buff completely and i do agree SOME would be reasonable. But the way he is now? Eraha is more profitable and that is depressing. Again i urge you to rebalance the buff. I never said remove it completely and many of the other comments donít. Just make it manageable and make it asap. Because as of right now i truly have no reason to enter this game. I have probably more than 20-30k runs in eraha and i did not buy gear of this magnitude to do some more. Be reasonable.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Loucks View Post
    We all knew this was coming, just thought it was going to be the elite map. Regardless this is just a Speed bump, new gear and new strategies will come and the community will push forward. Only down side is gl farming is ALOT slower helping only the Plat whales imo....
    Goodluck & Cya around :>
    I assure u the ďplat whalesĒ that are actually also farming take no pleasure in this change. This helps no one.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    We realize that our dedicated players grew very attached to dominating Hedourah in only a few seconds and running EZG for hundreds of waves - but this is / was ultimately not good for the game as a whole.

    And yes we understand that the old setup for Hedo and EZG was good for those of you who farm gold and are excited by the idea of constant, near infinite gold. Furthermore we know that any changes to affect this in any way will be seen as a horrible turn for the worse. Unfortunately, from time to time we need to make adjustments to the game that affect gold inflow.

    We certainly could have nerfed the gold directly but history teaches us that this method is tremendously unpopular. The last time we did it the forums discussion turned to the more viable option of beefing up enemy statistics (since you have friends, gear, pets and other means of overcoming this 'nerf').

    On the specifics...

    Hedourah's previous stats were simply not suitable for the 'last boss' of the game. His updated health pool is much, much larger and IMO entirely appropriate for the 'final' Level 86 boss. Nevertheless we are still seeing our top players crush him in way less than a minute (just over 30 sec.) and the average player in less than two. I'm fine with it staying this way and I don't think Hedourah needs to be any tougher. I also know that you and your friends are going to get stronger and the times we are seeing today are likely to be 2x (or higher) than what we'll see in a matter of a few weeks.

    EZG was broken at higher waves. It failed to appropriately increase monster statistics as you got further and further along. We fixed this. Good news here is that the level of challenge we desire for our periodic 'gauntlet' style events should be a lot more challenging and competitive. Obviously the bad news for players who endured the hundreds of waves for gold farming is that the difficulty now ramps up as it was intended.

    As for what is next...

    Given the speed at which Hedourah is dying to players and groups it is very unlikely that his stats will be changed.

    The max waves for EZG are still multiples of the planned content (as you know there really are only 15 waves) but now they are working as expected. Given this it would be reasonable for us to consider a way to increase gold payouts for reaching these higher and more difficult waves. There's nothing like that right now but I will look into it. I won't be adding a new game system just to bring back the old 'way too much gold' rewards; but something that makes it more worthwhile for the increased difficulty does make sense.

    Best wishes
    I really appreciate your action on this matter, some people have big idea about their self and they forgetting from where they have started and asking greedy continued things that affect all of us.
    Because when you ask always for more and more, in the end you get less from what was supposed to take, and this affects all of us!!!
    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cinco View Post
    Yeah. That's actually quite fair.

    Given the completion times pre-buff it made a lot of sense to me that it would be more fun to fight Hedourah for at least 10 seconds or so.

    I'll take another look at how players are doing against this encounter. A full rollback may be in order - or we could nerf what we have by a decent measure (so he's not paper like he used to be, but not the "impossible" monster he is now).

    Later, when I have all the stuff that I want him to be dropping we can revisit how tough he is.
    That's exactly how it should be. Rollback Would be good. Incl Awake event rollback because I spent about 8k plat and 300m only for my sword (lvl 86) for 15cd . ;,D ;,P

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    You thinking of the present not the future...
    Less in-flow now, hm you think them new Arc that got the damage you want gunna cost? Just like when Kraken released and 200-300m was expensive then. No one like the update imo it was too soon but it is what it is.

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    Make hauntlet easier. I can't kill mobsss :-(

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Loucks View Post
    You thinking of the present not the future...
    Less in-flow now, hm you think them new Arc that got the damage you want gunna cost? Just like when Kraken released and 200-300m was expensive then. No one like the update imo it was too soon but it is what it is.
    So we should just not voice out valid concerns and issues because it is what it is? Devs are also human and capable of mistakes. The community and the devs should communicate in order to achieve results that work FOR EVERYONE. Shutting up and fake pleasantries help absolutely no one. If you have nothing to add to the thread specifically meant for feedback, if u are happy with the status quo, thatís ur biz. The people voicing their opinion are doing everyone a favor by speaking out.


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    And please revise the Starbeast Sword. It's so weak. I've tested all the combos (Snow, Starbeast, Neptaris, etc....) and the Starbeast Sword is by far the weakest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by navabi View Post
    So we should just not voice out valid concerns and issues because it is what it is? Devs are also human and capable of mistakes. The community and the devs should communicate in order to achieve results that work FOR EVERYONE. Shutting up and fake pleasantries help absolutely no one. If you have nothing to add to the thread specifically meant for feedback, if u are happy with the status quo, thatís ur biz. The people voicing their opinion are doing everyone a favor by speaking out.


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    +1

    Greets Wortwechsel

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    Hi cinco, i just wanted to say a few things.

    Cinco, you do know that you can add more bosses/just another map which involve harder mobs/boss. Add more weapons which equals things out.

    I mean you can do many things without touching existing content which players loves to do.

    People have farmed for months and a year to get kraken items, because kraken was helping people beat bosses in ezg/hedo and people was doing those maps to get gold.

    Many players can't afford to buy platinum/buy gold with money. The gold people was getting from ezg/hedo was giving them something to work on.

    It lured people to farm in cata to get krak items, so they can make gold by farming. We need gold to buy many things , awakening event , energy , elixirs , auction fees it all charge tons of gold.

    We really need alot of gold for many things, and people loves to farm when they get something of equal in return.

    I'm not asking to nerf it back to how it was, i'm just saying nerf bosses/mobs a little bit and increase a little bit gold loot.

    That's all.

  20.   Click here to go to the next Dev post in this thread.   #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyMagnum View Post
    I'm not asking to nerf it back to how it was, i'm just saying nerf bosses/mobs a little bit and increase a little bit gold loot.
    Sounds quite reasonable.
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  21.   Click here to go to the next Dev post in this thread.   #100
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    Here's what we'll do...

    Hedourah and his echoes will be nerfed. It won't be a roll-back and he'll have more health than he did prior to the update but it'll be more like a +50% instead of a +300%

    We'll also shave off the amount of health and damage that we apply to each of the later waves of EZG by a good amount so that it's easier to go longer without dying / running out of time.


    Best wishes!
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