About the new arcane weapons

[Deathlyreaper]

I know you devs are designing and testing it but I would like to bring something to your attention and consideration. It’s about the rogue’s disappearing role in the game. Let’s face it, class roles have been thrown out the window since the game heavily leaned into weapon procs. Warriors and mages can kill bosses quickly and easily. They have become great at what is supposed to be the Rogue’s “job”. I have no qualms about this as I understand how hard it is to reintroduce class roles after taking the game on a different path. However, my issue is that Rogues have not been improving in the other class’s areas. The recent elite expansion showed how easy it is for a rogue to die even with high gears (kraken + star beast + rusk). We don’t have a viable shield that gives us immunity even for a few seconds. What’s more upsetting is our inability to clear mobs. I am constantly left in the dust by warriors and mages when it comes to mob clearing. Please test it out and see just how behind rogues are when clearing the elite map mobs. Bit by bit the rogue’s functionality is becoming obsolete.

I ask that you consider either reintroducing class roles again by having rogues excel at boss killing OR buff up our survivability and mob clearing abilities. I see the new arcane weapons as the only viable means to apply this change effectively considering how important procs are in this game.

Also a side question:
why is it that kraken daggers procs have to hit mobs twice or more in order to kill them? I notice that when I have the proc active, the first hit does little to no dmg. The only dmg is from the consecutive hits that follow after. What’s more is that the speed of the hits aren’t as fast as the other weapons. Part of the reason why warriors excelled in mob clearing is because their kraken aegis aoe proc has a faster hit rate (and I’m pretty sure it has a higher dmg too) so they get more hits as they speed through mobs. When a rogue attempts this, their kraken dagger procs hits once or twice per mob and so mobs don’t really die from the proc especially because the first hit doesn’t do dmg.


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[plsp]

Hate to say it since I crafted a glint set, but making trap pull more reliable in 3.0 would make rogue way more fun in maps. Also increasing herb invulnerability would be nice so we don't need staggos in caverns to proc

Re claws: applies armor reduction so that might be it

[Deathlyreaper]

Hate to say it since I crafted a glint set, but making trap pull more reliable in 3.0 would make rogue way more fun in maps. Also increasing herb invulnerability would be nice so we don't need staggos in caverns to proc

Re claws: applies armor reduction so that might be it

Yes to traps. The invulnerability on herb is a good but there should be more. We need something more consistent like buffing razor shield instead of waiting for ultimates.


As for the claws, there’s something inherently wrong with it because I tested where my friend and I both proc. They went to the mob to get the 1st hit (as usual the 1st hit does little dmg). Then I went to the mob and I still have low dmg on the 1st hit (32k) and my 2nd dmg is 620k. If it’s just a matter of armor reduction, my friend’s 1st hit should have already reduced mob armor.


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[AndriSutarji]

I know you devs are designing and testing it but I would like to bring something to your attention and consideration. It’s about the rogue’s disappearing role in the game. Let’s face it, class roles have been thrown out the window since the game heavily leaned into weapon procs. Warriors and mages can kill bosses quickly and easily. They have become great at what is supposed to be the Rogue’s “job”. I have no qualms about this as I understand how hard it is to reintroduce class roles after taking the game on a different path. However, my issue is that Rogues have not been improving in the other class’s areas. The recent elite expansion showed how easy it is for a rogue to die even with high gears (kraken + star beast + rusk). We don’t have a viable shield that gives us immunity even for a few seconds. What’s more upsetting is our inability to clear mobs. I am constantly left in the dust by warriors and mages when it comes to mob clearing. Please test it out and see just how behind rogues are when clearing the elite map mobs. Bit by bit the rogue’s functionality is becoming obsolete.

I ask that you consider either reintroducing class roles again by having rogues excel at boss killing OR buff up our survivability and mob clearing abilities. I see the new arcane weapons as the only viable means to apply this change effectively considering how important procs are in this game.

Also a side question:
why is it that kraken daggers procs have to hit mobs twice or more in order to kill them? I notice that when I have the proc active, the first hit does little to no dmg. The only dmg is from the consecutive hits that follow after. What’s more is that the speed of the hits aren’t as fast as the other weapons. Part of the reason why warriors excelled in mob clearing is because their kraken aegis aoe proc has a faster hit rate (and I’m pretty sure it has a higher dmg too) so they get more hits as they speed through mobs. When a rogue attempts this, their kraken dagger procs hits once or twice per mob and so mobs don’t really die from the proc especially because the first hit doesn’t do dmg.


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It is true! Why Rogue job so nab? No Shield ? No Pure Buff ? just 1 Area Damage skill with no damage?

why?

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[Deathlyreaper]

It is true! Why Rogue job so nab? No Shield ? No Pure Buff ? just 1 Area Damage skill with no damage?

why?

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Yes we definitely need an upgrade to our aoe skill. Despite all the dmg buffs from the add-ons it’s nowhere near as good at killing mobs.


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[Mie]

Agree with all of this! Us poor rogues are being pushed into retirement.

Mages and Warriors, hands down, clear a map and/or melt the bosses way faster than a rogue does these days. Our contribution to the pt is minor compared to the damage that the other two can produce. We are supposed to be sneaky, fast, damage dealing forces of nature and we are over here giving fist bumps to ehedo while our buddies wipe the floor with him.

STS, show us some love!! <3

[Heev]

mages kill mobs faster, but compared to a rogue with the same mage-equivalent equipment and well-defined skills, the rogue kills the boss with much more ease and speed.
I think the game was moving towards a place where you didn't need other people to make a map, of course, there has to be a certain difficulty to make it worth going together instead of going alone.

Going back in time so that each character is only good at one thing would be bad because you would always need more people to do your things.
It's good that the game is played in groups, but everyone needs to be strong enough to do things alone if they want, but of course, with a certain level of difficulty that is different for each character.

I wish the final meteor had 3 meteors like rogues have in their ult. but this would give us a very high level of independence. We already kill the mobs quickly, if we kill the boss with the ease of a rog or warr, we would be independent of everyone and still maintain a high speed in doing things, but we can still do the boss alone, it just takes longer than in a group .

If the rogue gains agility to eliminate mobs and still maintains the speed to kill the boss quickly alone, it would be fair for the mage to gain speed to kill the boss quickly and alone as well.
I see it's okay, you often encounter your character's difficulty, which is killing mobs compared to a mage.

this is based on slightly well-established characters. final characters with the most upgraded items are pretty much the same in my opinion.

When I'm on my rogue, I feel like abilities shouldn't wait to activate and take effect. the wizard and the warrior just activate their skills and are ready, the rogue needs to put the skill on the ground and wait for it to activate, this for a class that doesn't have high defense is very harmful.



[translator was used in this comment]

[lxtinal]

“ When I'm on my rogue, I feel like abilities shouldn't wait to activate and take effect. the wizard and the warrior just activate their skills and are ready, the rogue needs to put the skill on the ground and wait for it to activate, this for a class that doesn't have high defense is very harmful.”

This!!! We are too slow compared to mages and warriors. Too much hang time for skill/weapon attacks. Rogue = fast (supposedly), but not in AL??

[Lazzer]

+1 To Rogues having buffs in terms of mob clearing. There is no issue or argument or comparisons to be made to other classes in my opinion since every class is fun right now. I just really hope STS sees these discussions and acknowledges them, as a majority of rogues would agree to the implementation of a defensive buff or a buff enabling more effective mob clearing. This maybe done through a larger AOE proc or quicker tick damage. But we can proceed to the discussion of the actual implementation of it after it has first been acknowledged by the Developers.

Having perhaps a invulnerability period in PVE for mob clearing is almost a must, specially considering those players who are playing on 300:500 ping (+-) like myself. I need to go with defensive pets instead of enjoying some nice and fun clearing in elite indigo since my ping and proc timers don't sync at all. I have a fully slotted kraken set/ Star beast set / Rusk- all with crit damage awakes and i still end up struggling so much to clear as efficiently as i should. Spending 600mill for a Rusk weapon only to be reminded that it doesn't scale with haste was quite sad as it means mob clear is slower overall regardless of Rusk or no Rusk. This delay in proc/animation time and actual damage being output makes it feel like Rusk is almost sluggish to use, the same is felt for Kraken daggers.

I truly hope that for rogues a build which includes traps and other slow means of damage is not the way forward as it would make the already slow clearing speed even slower in having to pull and place traps to perfection. I struggle so much in pulling mobs without the defensive pet attributes and end up dying when clearing even with the 50% damage reduction pet actives (PING T_T).

[Lazzer]

Please let us know if changes are possible Devs. Thanks in advance

[haterclown]

I don't have problem with map clearing for rogues i clean any map solo and i always active 5 plat ress buff when i am downed but the rogues have yes somewhat useless skills compared to other two classes, yes for skill revamp for rogues and kraken weapons must last longer but if devs don't mind this rogue problem it's always useful to add friends for help problem solved if you are solo playing like me then yes rogues skills and weapons need some rework buff

[Lazzer]

The thing is even i can solo run Elite indigo or any other map for that matter. But the fact that you use 5 ankhs for respawning when you are downed is what I'm trying to negate for the Rogue class, at least by a little bit. Because we tend to be downed way more than mage or warrior and that's a fact. The only reason we can solo run these maps is because we have end game decent gear and have the luxury to buy any pet we want to, which assist with our playstyle. But I'm not typing this out just from my perspective, many rogues myself included are very aware that the clear can be better. And yes, running solo i feel like is not as effective as running with a party. A party is more fun imo, with a lot more gold per/hour, and i always run with a party rather than solo. But still the case of high ping + bad pulls + low armour + average AOE clear and almost no defensive attributes or utility ends up being problematic.

The game is in a very nice spot right now. All classes are absolutely fun and captures a exciting playstyle. Making the rogue class also match that *fun* standard is what I'm really pushing for. This thread is a nice place to bring this up since it's focus is on future potential updates.

[Deathlyreaper]

mages kill mobs faster, but compared to a rogue with the same mage-equivalent equipment and well-defined skills, the rogue kills the boss with much more ease and speed.
I think the game was moving towards a place where you didn't need other people to make a map, of course, there has to be a certain difficulty to make it worth going together instead of going alone.

Going back in time so that each character is only good at one thing would be bad because you would always need more people to do your things.
It's good that the game is played in groups, but everyone needs to be strong enough to do things alone if they want, but of course, with a certain level of difficulty that is different for each character.

I wish the final meteor had 3 meteors like rogues have in their ult. but this would give us a very high level of independence. We already kill the mobs quickly, if we kill the boss with the ease of a rog or warr, we would be independent of everyone and still maintain a high speed in doing things, but we can still do the boss alone, it just takes longer than in a group .

If the rogue gains agility to eliminate mobs and still maintains the speed to kill the boss quickly alone, it would be fair for the mage to gain speed to kill the boss quickly and alone as well.
I see it's okay, you often encounter your character's difficulty, which is killing mobs compared to a mage.

this is based on slightly well-established characters. final characters with the most upgraded items are pretty much the same in my opinion.

When I'm on my rogue, I feel like abilities shouldn't wait to activate and take effect. the wizard and the warrior just activate their skills and are ready, the rogue needs to put the skill on the ground and wait for it to activate, this for a class that doesn't have high defense is very harmful.



[translator was used in this comment]

Here’s the thing, mages already clear boss as fast as rogues and warriors. The use of your curse makes you able to do so. The only instance that rogues can beat mages in regards to boss is when there’s the ultimate skill involved, which is such a rare occasion considering that they are useless on the main farming maps (raha and hedo). Asking for 3 meteors is overkill especially since your meteors hits multiple enemies and our ultimate everywhere else except the boss room.

There’s no longer any niche that the rogue can fill.

Mages are needed whether it’s a full map or just a boss map because they can use curse. Not to mention they deal significant dmg

Tanks are needed in a full map bc they clear like crazy and their aggro helps with this. In the boss map they can clear just as fast if not faster than rogues.

Rogues?? Well they’re basically a replaceable class.


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[danialazhad63]

Maybe make a weapon that can destroy a map + boss with 1 proc

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[Lazzer]

That exists, try warrior with rusk and kraken :3, perhaps with Bio/SB. Btw its understandable to perhaps not like the suggestions put forth but lets be honest here, one class doesn't need to be lacking to maintain how fun the game is right now. Because the fact is regardless of what happens all classes are at a good spot right now and are very fun to play.

Having constructive posts on how to make the game fun without completely breaking a class is always encouraged in my opinion. Whether it be for mages, warriors or rogues or anything for that matter.

[Read]

+1 To Rogues having buffs in terms of mob clearing. There is no issue or argument or comparisons to be made to other classes in my opinion since every class is fun right now. I just really hope STS sees these discussions and acknowledges them, as a majority of rogues would agree to the implementation of a defensive buff or a buff enabling more effective mob clearing. This maybe done through a larger AOE proc or quicker tick damage. But we can proceed to the discussion of the actual implementation of it after it has first been acknowledged by the Developers.

Having perhaps a invulnerability period in PVE for mob clearing is almost a must, specially considering those players who are playing on 300:500 ping (+-) like myself. I need to go with defensive pets instead of enjoying some nice and fun clearing in elite indigo since my ping and proc timers don't sync at all. I have a fully slotted kraken set/ Star beast set / Rusk- all with crit damage awakes and i still end up struggling so much to clear as efficiently as i should. Spending 600mill for a Rusk weapon only to be reminded that it doesn't scale with haste was quite sad as it means mob clear is slower overall regardless of Rusk or no Rusk. This delay in proc/animation time and actual damage being output makes it feel like Rusk is almost sluggish to use, the same is felt for Kraken daggers.

I truly hope that for rogues a build which includes traps and other slow means of damage is not the way forward as it would make the already slow clearing speed even slower in having to pull and place traps to perfection. I struggle so much in pulling mobs without the defensive pet attributes and end up dying when clearing even with the 50% damage reduction pet actives (PING T_T).

+1. A small buff wouldn't hurt

[Lazzer]

Why is this thread not visible? I don't see it in Suggestion and has been moved from Suggestions to Discussions. I totally understand if the Devs are busy at the moment and have no time to look at each thread. But is this not the place to voice concerns? Please at least let us know if there is a possibility of such a update to make the clear a bit more efficient for Rogues in
the near future. If not, my plan at least, is to make an alt account and runs as warrior instead considering the current progression for rogues.

This thread seems to have a lot of views yet no response from the Devs. Hopefully they do notice while playing as Rogues, perhaps in a even scenario of all maxed out gears amongst the other classes.

[Encryptions]

I never had any damage dealing issues when playing rogue, I even got to a point where I did 13million damage per tick to hedoura on my rog. Solo elite LB rahabkor with no issues in 1min. Solo any boss any map in the game with ease. It just depends on how far you are in the game.

[Lazzer]

The damage is not the issue here though, its the speed of clearing mobs overall. It's very clear that all classes are in a position now to do what they want to do which is deal a lot of damage and manage solo runs. Yet, it is also very clear in comparison to other classes, that the Rogue class is lacking in it's clear. It's highly noticeable if you run indigo, where rogues do defensive AA's most of the time, with Staggos, Anky, Glow etc.

And if we are talking about raw damage to bosses. There are warriors who can nuke elite Hedorah too which Zod. And for those who have run elite hedorah a lot, we know this is true. Happens often, and yes. Happens often with OP warriors who know what they are doing. It's a feature the game seems to allow. That is not what this thread is focused on though. Also yes I can solo any map as well, but it won't hurt to have some sort of decent utility in the kit right? Considering that the class is lacking in comparison.

[Xyv.io]

It's all good. Rogues can't mob properly, warriors can't boss properly and mages are mid at everything. Yes if it's overgeared then obviously they'll melt everything no matter what race. Stop whining about it.