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  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: Additional Utility for Rogue Skills

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    Default Additional Utility for Rogue Skills

    Is it possible to implement some changes for the current Rogue skills setup as the class right now is lacking in its overall performance and clear in comparison to the other 2 classes.

    Rogues need a shield and some kind of better AOE ability on top the current shadow shot. Pulling mobs and activating procs in general as Rogue feels sluggish and ruins the fun when playing Rogue knowing all too well how insanely easier the clear can be as a Warrior or Mage, both having extremely effective clearing and utility like pulls and AOE effects, specially late game with Blood and Rusk.

    Some recommendations to think about would be to implement in the skill tree of Razor Shield to have a 2 or 3 second invulnerability and have Razor Shield get a higher base damage and have it instantly damage the mobs it passes through.

    The additions above can be done in this way. Swirling Valor can be swapped out for a 3 second invulnerability period instead of 2% heal on hp every second since Rogues generally get one shot and don't have time to recover hp in PVE maps. And the Blunted Barbs can be swapped out for an ability causing the Razor Shield to have higher base damage and have a instant proc/shred damage on mobs it passes through scaling with procs. Blunted barbs push away mobs which is not helpful at all at the moment in PVE.

    These additions hopefully will allow Rogues to have more fun in the game without having to always complain. I'm sure the kind developers reading this have noticed by now that myself and many other Rogues are asking for a small change. Please let us know if we can hopefully expect some kind of a buff.

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    Lets take a look to class balance, so rgoues have no survivability, mage have mid and tank have high.. but rogue has the most offensive solo skills, mage is group and tank very low, but sts helped tanks giving op procs so they are able to do dmg as well, so i suggest they give rogues a proc to help them too, like new blood daggers could give rogue 3 sec immunity.

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    Yeah and the thing is there is no point in having solo skills and single target skills anymore, the game has moved far from the requirement of having Rogues for bosses and mages for mob clear and tanks for tanking. Developers themselves said that the game has moved towards all classes needing to be able to clear any maps effectively.

    Yet Rogues are still stuck with a arsenal of single target skills with high damage which is completely useless in this meta. Not even needed for hedourah (highly farmed boss for gold) since elemental sets and a mage curse does way more damage and is more helpful for the team. There is no reason to play Rogue in this meta whatsoever sadly. It's just painfully sad to spend so much time on a toon which seems to be getting gapped in terms of gameplay in comparison to the 2 other classes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazzer View Post
    Yeah and the thing is there is no point in having solo skills and single target skills anymore, the game has moved far from the requirement of having Rogues for bosses and mages for mob clear and tanks for tanking. Developers themselves said that the game has moved towards all classes needing to be able to clear any maps effectively.

    Yet Rogues are still stuck with a arsenal of single target skills with high damage which is completely useless in this meta. Not even needed for hedourah (highly farmed boss for gold) since elemental sets and a mage curse does way more damage and is more helpful for the team. There is no reason to play Rogue in this meta whatsoever sadly. It's just painfully sad to spend so much time on a toon which seems to be getting gapped in terms of gameplay in comparison to the 2 other classes.
    I agree with u, but if they changed rogue skills, they should change also tanks skills as well to be fair, tanks could use a 250% dmg skill like aimed shot or lihgtning strike of mage, anyways i do play with op rogues, they can clear anything with one blood arti proc, and kill anything as fast just like the other two, its all about gears believe me, all classes can do anything.

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    It's not about changing Rogues skills in general. It's just 2 additions. A shield and AOE like other classes. You don't see warriors complaining about a lack of damage anywhere because it's not an issue at all. The ultimate and the warriors buffs and now the elemental sets have made any boss melt as a Warrior. Warriors were able to do cursed Woods without Bio, 3.3k str and zod. Even with all the 250% damage etc etc as Rogue thats impossible. Rogues were supposed to be OP for bosses btw. And even if warriors do complain about a lack of single target damage there is nothing wrong with opening a new thread and asking for something to be implemented, ill support it.

    This thread is mainly looking at the Rogue issue. Ask around in AL and see what people think about the mob clearing as Rogue. Btw i switched to Warr too. Damage on bosses is lesser than Rogue for sure, but its not an issue whatsoever. Warriors do elite hedourah or any map for that matter with no problem. Likewise with Rogue, I can do all maps but not as smoothly as Warrior and Mage. I'd like to add that the gear is not the issue. The difference in buying a blood arti as Rogue vs Warrior to clear maps is like night and day with Rusk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazzer View Post
    It's not about changing Rogues skills in general. It's just 2 additions. A shield and AOE like other classes. You don't see warriors complaining about a lack of damage anywhere because it's not an issue at all. The ultimate and the warriors buffs and now the elemental sets have made any boss melt as a Warrior. Warriors were able to do cursed Woods without Bio, 3.3k str and zod. Even with all the 250% damage etc etc as Rogue thats impossible. Rogues were supposed to be OP for bosses btw. And even if warriors do complain about a lack of single target damage there is nothing wrong with opening a new thread and asking for something to be implemented, ill support it.

    This thread is mainly looking at the Rogue issue. Ask around in AL and see what people think about the mob clearing as Rogue. Btw i switched to Warr too. Damage on bosses is lesser than Rogue for sure, but its not an issue whatsoever. Warriors do elite hedourah or any map for that matter with no problem. Likewise with Rogue, I can do all maps but not as smoothly as Warrior and Mage. I'd like to add that the gear is not the issue. The difference in buying a blood arti as Rogue vs Warrior to clear maps is like night and day with Rusk.
    We are doing too much confusion here, lets keep the gear and skills talk separate... what is the war aoe skill excuse me? U think we can clear any mobs without op gears like rusk or procs? War totally lack skills to damage at all, go try all classes no procs or rusks, see who can clear mobs and who cant xD. If u want talk about gears yes, sts fixed war issues with good gears as i said, and he can do anything that way, so to be fair sts should help rogue with gears as well, i think making rusk bow benefit from haste and becoming more like rusk gun would help immensely for mobs clear, about survavibality, rogue need some proc that give immunity as i said, if u want to talk about skills changes.. then to be fair lets change skills to all classes to be equal this my opinion.

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    I'm talking about end game. Rusk, Blood etc. That's where all players who play this game end up eventually. Warr has AOE clear with Rusk pull and krak pull + Arti which is 10x more effective than a Rogues entire kit. Btw you don't need Rusk as warrior to be broken at clear. Even force works. Try it.

    I said AOE like other classes meaning Mage has its own spamming of skills with tower and fire ball and rusk gun or orb, while Warr has Rusk spam AOE effect which pulls and shreds with Kraken and Arti.

    And yes I did not bring up haste because for some reason STS is against it, thinking it will break Rogues. But the AOE (Area of Effect) clear is way better on Mage and Warrior than Rogue at end game, is what I am trying to say. Play Rogue maxed out toon and then Warrior, you'll see a huge diff in clear speed and how much you can clear.

    Btw there is literally no point in comparing early or mid game any more because you either play the game and get decent items and end game gear or you end up not playing at all. For those at level 81 or lower, investing in a Rogue toon heading towards end game is a complete waste of time. I know because I did it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazzer View Post
    I'm talking about end game. Rusk, Blood etc. That's where all players who play this game end up eventually. Warr has AOE clear with Rusk pull and krak pull + Arti which is 10x more effective than a Rogues entire kit. Btw you don't need Rusk as warrior to be broken at clear. Even force works. Try it.

    I said AOE like other classes meaning Mage has its own spamming of skills with tower and fire ball and rusk gun or orb, while Warr has Rusk spam AOE effect which pulls and shreds with Kraken and Arti.

    And yes I did not bring up haste because for some reason STS is against it, thinking it will break Rogues. But the AOE (Area of Effect) clear is way better on Mage and Warrior than Rogue at end game, is what I am trying to say. Play Rogue maxed out toon and then Warrior, you'll see a huge diff in clear speed and how much you can clear.

    Btw there is literally no point in comparing early or mid game any more because you either play the game and get decent items and end game gear or you end up not playing at all. For those at level 81 or lower, investing in a Rogue toon heading towards end game is a complete waste of time. I know because I did it.
    I do have force hunter.. i have all tank gears, force hunter pull is weak compared to rusk, and the dmg is a lot lower i wouldnt use it in 86, but i dont think is fair to talk about rogue skills improvement since the difference u talking about its from gears and not skills, so u shouldnt ask for better skills imo, war is good because the gears, and its the class more gear dependent, i did try rogue btw, i felt good in it, could do anything the only annoying thing was the lack of survivability u have to be more careful, its easy to die, that being said, i do hope sts help rogues about this somehow, in the maintime u r enjoying tank so its good, wish u luck

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    The difference in class and clearing ability is not by gears alone. A mage Rusk has no pull like warrior yet the class clears amazingly. It's a mix of gears and skills. Why not add a Shield to Rogue? You said that the class lacks survivability yourself? The class lacks survivability and AOE effects. AOE effects from gear and skills.

    Instead of buffing or adding a future gear which has some insane clear with a pull or proc similar to Warrior Rusk. Most logical thing to do is to buff Rogue with a shield and implement some AOE in the skill tree as well. STS clearly does not want all classes to feel the exact same way in gameplay. So might as well maintain that unique touch through skills but buff the skills which are unique to the class to be able to help with clear.

    If you have a better idea please let us know. Just saying things like "I hope STS helps Rogue" does not really give any legitimate things to work on, to improve the class.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazzer View Post
    The difference in class and clearing ability is not by gears alone. A mage Rusk has no pull like warrior yet the class clears amazingly. It's a mix of gears and skills. Why not add a Shield to Rogue? You said that the class lacks survivability yourself? The class lacks survivability and AOE effects. AOE effects from gear and skills.

    Instead of buffing or adding a future gear which has some insane clear with a pull or proc similar to Warrior Rusk. Most logical thing to do is to buff Rogue with a shield and implement some AOE in the skill tree as well. STS clearly does not want all classes to feel the exact same way in gameplay. So might as well maintain that unique touch through skills but buff the skills which are unique to the class to be able to help with clear.

    If you have a better idea please let us know. Just saying things like "I hope STS helps Rogue" does not really give any legitimate things to work on, to improve the class.
    Yeah and why a mage with rusk clear well? Its because rusk gun hit multiple mobs and benefits from haste, its mostly gears, im sorry i dont agree with u, also u complain that rogues has no shield and lack aoe skill... war have only shields and healings and 0 decent attack skills, i really do hope sts help rogues, i have nothing against rogues, i wish all classes are good and enjoyable, and i alrdy gave my idea, just u wont accept it, imo rogue should be helped with gears, because this is how tank was helped, cant imagine playing tank without elemental sets or rusk sword, i would change class lol, if you want a skill revamp for rogue, i suggest a skill revamp for all classes at this point.

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    You seem to be thinking this thread is to not focus on other classes and buff Rogue only. If you have a suggestion to revamp a specific skill tree for Warrior, make a thread and let developers know mate. This thread is clearly on Rogue clear and its AOE if you did read the earlier posts. Every one knows end game Rogue clear is trash. If you don't agree that's totally fine.

    Also haste is out of the question, I'm telling you again STS doesn't like to implement haste on bows. Move on from that idea that Rogues will gain haste. And your point on Warr not having attack skills doesn't make a difference whatsoever on the clear or boss kill potential this meta because of how many easy options in game are present to solo bosses and maps. My point being there is nothing the Warrior or Mage lacks in terms of clear right now. While Rogue end game IS lacking.

  12.   Click here to go to the next Dev post in this thread.   #12
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    Added to the list of things to analyze.

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    Please do so, it will benefit the game and the player base for Rogues.

    Since statistics are one way to analyze and evaluate things. One statistic which no one can argue or disagree on is the numbers on the Elite Indigo LB. I highly suggest keeping track of it in the previous months and the coming months. The map with the highest gold drops (even better than Elite Hedourah when you have a good party).

    The numbers clearly always favor the Warrior class or Mage class. 99% of the time. It's not because there aren't op Rogues running 24/7 on indigo. It's because the rate of clearing is terrible in comparison. It's 100x easier just hopping onto a equally Op alt account as Warrior /Mage and running to farm. Please remember this comparison to other classes is NOT a plea to nerf Warrior or Mage. It's purely to buff the Rogue it make it fun and decent to run with it.

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    Rogues definitely need some love. Granted players with the top gear can do anything in pve but not everyone has the top gears. Pvp they struggle regardless of gear.

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    Yeah they absolutely do. Regardless of top gear or not. When running in parties with a Warrior and Mage versions top gear as well (Rusk/orb, Sb/Blood/) you can see a INSANE difference, the ease of clear and how much you can do with a proc is crazy as a Warrior or Mage cuz of the AOE and utility.

    PvP is a whole different story and thread to be very honest, 90% of the player base doesn't PvP.

    Actually super glad a developer has added this Rogue issue to analyze.

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    Quote Originally Posted by capeo View Post
    Rogues definitely need some love. Granted players with the top gear can do anything in pve but not everyone has the top gears. Pvp they struggle regardless of gear.
    And u think wars or mage without top gears are good?... anyways sure buff rogues give shield w.e sts choose to do, happy for them, also pvp is useless why still think about it, sts abandoned that long ago

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    It's harder with out top gear for everyone but rogues have an issue clearing. My war/mage, with mecha gear, clears a lot easier then my rogue with mecha gear. Boss is harder on my nab rogue too. It's obvious to anyone that plays rogue they need something.

    I'm holding on to pvp as long as I can. Once it's completely gone so am I.

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    Quote Originally Posted by capeo View Post
    It's harder with out top gear for everyone but rogues have an issue clearing. My war/mage, with mecha gear, clears a lot easier then my rogue with mecha gear. Boss is harder on my nab rogue too. It's obvious to anyone that plays rogue they need something.

    I'm holding on to pvp as long as I can. Once it's completely gone so am I.
    I dont agree, i clear good on rogue, its just way too easy to die, but thats only thing i noticed playing there, i know my feedback is different from other rogue players, and i dont understand it tbh... anyways im being honest, hope it helps sts figure out best way to help rogue.

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    Opinions on the Rogue's ability to clear and kill vary depending on a variety of factors. From my vantage (using developer tools to watch Players in various situations) I see a minority of Rogues that have excellent clearing / killing capabilities, and a majority who tend to struggle. The differences in clearing / killing capabilities are not a fundamental Class-based issue; they relate to gear, pets, and the Players' approach.

    That being said, I think it is reasonable for the Design team to consider some way to improve Rogue survivability. We will certainly consider the suggestions brought up here :-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lazzer View Post
    Rogues need a shield
    To be fair - the Medicinal Herb gives you 2 seconds of invulnerability.

    This is quite useful if you do indeed want to survive (and is an intentional trade-off vs. the mitigation you get from Refuel and the damage you deal with Ultimate Aimed Shot).
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