2025-01-16 Content Update (319521)

[Apocalyptis]

We developed Honor PvP to entertain Players who wanted balance over loot.

Twink PvP will always be more subject to procs and special gear effects, Pet powers and Evolution bonuses - because it is Twink PvP.
I say this with love: you can fix this by going Endgame or by going Honor.

This is outrageous how you talk about procs and special gear effect in comparison to pet damage trainers. Have you EVER tested it? This pet evolution literally broke everything that used to work.

And I say this with love: Go and create level 14 character -> evolve your damage trainer on skeletops -> slot radyven AA -> go NAKED to the pvp map and see what BS it does to max geared players with all those insane awakens they had to obtain.

Fix your damned game, this isn’t about honor nor endgame Jesus Christ. Twink PvP has been here since this game started, there is hundred of solutions that would even profit you more than keeping it like this. In the state as it is right now, the evolutions are only being used by those who want to ruin PvP experience to others.

[Cinco]

I don’t agree with this at all.

With all due respect, my reasons for creating Honor PvP are really not up for debate.

Twink pvp has been an active and big part of this community since I can remember, and has never faced issues with gameplay until very recently.

I wish this were the case but the concept of Twink PvP has been around since before Arcane Legends was released and has been a subject of controversy (in one form or another) since the second expansion.

The awakening update changed pvp but the gameplay was still balanced.

This is the first time I have heard anyone saying that awakenings were somehow balanced in the context of AL Twink PvP. I agree - and I very much appreciate it :-)

This damage trainer update has not only completely changed the scope of what twink pvp is, it makes it impossible to play whenever someone is using it. We have a GA of some sort where players expect each other not to use it, but why do we have to expect these things from each other and create our own rules?

Yes. If Endgame PvP is the "Wild West," then Twink PvP is the "Wild, Wild West." You should definitely have special rules for clashes if you expect to figure out who's better than whom.

I don’t understand why you can’t acknowledge that twink pvp is a big part of this game and a lot of your revenue from this game comes from this community. Telling us to just do Honor pvp is not only ignoring the problems at hand, it’s telling the community to throw away the sets and communities it’s built over a decade.

I am trying to set expectations based on over a decade of gameplay.

[Diablophoenix]

I appreciate your responses and your time. I have always thought awakenings to be a brilliant aspect of the game; it creates further hierarchy and much more variation to the gameplay. There’s a real excitement about it and I never understood critcism regarding it.
However, these qualities cannot be even slightly transferred to the damage trainer on pets. You said that you are keeping in mind the length at which this has been a part of the game but it doesn’t seem as if you are acknowledging how extreme the damage pets are. If they were a bit overpowered I’m sure the reaction wouldn’t have been so grand. But a damage based AA such as radyven literally 1 shots players effortlessly- it doesn’t add to the gameplay at all.
Perhaps there could be a consideration for needing the damage if the radyven AA, or damage AA’s in general at a lower level?
There are multiple ways the harshness of the pet trainer update could be tweaked and I’m sure your team would have great ideas too.
One of the reasons we all love this game is because we have responsive devs who tune the game to our liking, and listen to us. I very rarely feel the need to ask for the game to be tweaked but now seems to be the most urgent of occasions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Diablophoenix]

I appreciate your responses and your time. I have always thought awakenings to be a brilliant aspect of the game; it creates further hierarchy and much more variation to the gameplay. There’s a real excitement about it and I never understood critcism regarding it.
However, these qualities cannot be even slightly transferred to the damage trainer on pets. You said that you are keeping in mind the length at which this has been a part of the game but it doesn’t seem as if you are acknowledging how extreme the damage pets are. If they were a bit overpowered I’m sure the reaction wouldn’t have been so grand. But a damage based AA such as radyven literally 1 shots players effortlessly- it doesn’t add to the gameplay at all.
Perhaps there could be a consideration for needing the damage if the radyven AA, or damage AA’s in general at a lower level?
There are multiple ways the harshness of the pet trainer update could be tweaked and I’m sure your team would have great ideas too.
One of the reasons we all love this game is because we have responsive devs who tune the game to our liking, and listen to us. I very rarely feel the need to ask for the game to be tweaked but now seems to be the most urgent of occasions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I meant nerfing* the damage of the radyven AA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cinco]

I meant nerfing* the damage of the radyven AA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would hope that you DO understand the criticism that Twink PvP players have levied against Awakenings - to give you context for your concerns about Pet Evolution.

[Diablophoenix]

I have indeed, and I always argued against it. But I truly have not heard of, or can think of, an argument to defend why damage trainers are this overpowered at lower levels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cinco]

I have indeed, and I always argued against it. But I truly have not heard of, or can think of, an argument to defend why damage trainers are this overpowered at lower levels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Because if you go to endgame it's a whole different ballgame. Also, if you go Honor it's balanced.

(Edit: If I were to do it all over again, I would restrict PvP to max level (with Honor as the default).)

[Diablophoenix]

Because if you go to endgame it's a whole different ballgame. Also, if you go Honor it's balanced.

I’m not disagreeing with those statements. But this does not change the fact that it is severely unbalanced at twink pvp! There is a clear distinction to be made here and updates can be made to keep it the same at endgame, but balance it at twink levels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cinco]

I’m not disagreeing with those statements. But this does not change the fact that it is severely unbalanced at twink pvp! There is a clear distinction to be made here and updates can be made to keep it the same at endgame, but balance it at twink levels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are many reasons that many games only allow PvP at max-level - and if I were to do it all over again I would rethink the availability of PvP at any level below max, tbh

This is largely due to the expanding matrix of features and gear that an MMO like ours embraces over time.

It's much more sustainable for a development team to balance combat at the culmination point (max level) or with specific loadouts (Honor).

[Diablophoenix]

There are many reasons that many games only allow PvP at max-level - and if I were to do it all over again I would rethink the availability of PvP at any level below max, tbh

This is largely due to the expanding matrix of features and gear that an MMO like ours embraces over time.

It's much more sustainable for a development team to balance combat at the culmination point (max level) or with specific loadouts (Honor).

I understand this and I can also see how you think it would’ve been better for the game to have been designed to have pvp only for max level.

BUT, this does not change the climate of the game now, at all. You are one of the devs to a game that has evolved in this way, where the twink population is very high.
Whether this was by accident or not, or if this was your preferred outcome or not, does not matter.
Since the climate of your game has high twink engagement, it seems only fitting that there is some effort to balance the game not just for end game players, but for twink players, too. And if not for small balances, at least for the extreme cases such as this one!
I can say that if twink gameplay was ruined beyond recognition, I would most likely quit the game, and so would a lot of others. It seems best not only for player satisfaction, but for you guys receiving profit, for you to cater to the reality of the climate of the game at hand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cinco]

I understand this and I can also see how you think it would’ve been better for the game to have been designed to have pvp only for max level.

BUT, this does not change the climate of the game now, at all. You are one of the devs to a game that has evolved in this way, where the twink population is very high.
Whether this was by accident or not, or if this was your preferred outcome or not, does not matter.
Since the climate of your game has high twink engagement, it seems only fitting that there is some effort to balance the game not just for end game players, but for twink players, too. And if not for small balances, at least for the extreme cases such as this one!
I can say that if twink gameplay was ruined beyond recognition, I would most likely quit the game, and so would a lot of others. It seems best not only for player satisfaction, but for you guys receiving profit, for you to cater to the reality of the climate of the game at hand.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What would you consider a high population for Twink PvP participation?

[Diablophoenix]

What would you consider a high population for Twink PvP participation?

I don’t know the numbers. But I have seen 86 pvp and it didn’t seem nearly as active as 14, which I do right now. I also have done 76 pvp and it wasn’t nearly as active as 1-4 or 12-14


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cinco]

I don’t know the numbers. But I have seen 86 pvp and it didn’t seem nearly as active as 14, which I do right now. I also have done 76 pvp and it wasn’t nearly as active as 1-4 or 12-14


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What metric do you use to divine that 86 is not as active as 14?

This gets you the figure. The comparison gives you a ballpark; I don't need actual numbers from you - I want to know what you think. I can look for myself (and I have). It is very educational for me to get a sense of what you think is "high" versus what I see in actual figures.

[Diablophoenix]

What metric do you use to divine that 86 is not as active as 14?

How many clashes happen per day, how many times I can enter a random room and there are people in zone. Like I said, I don’t have statistics, I can only base it off my own experience


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cinco]

How many clashes happen per day, how many times I can enter a random room and there are people in zone. Like I said, I don’t have statistics, I can only base it off my own experience


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How many clashes happen per day at the various levels you play then?

[Diablophoenix]

How many clashes happen per day at the various levels you play then?

There are multiple clashes of 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 every single day at 14. These happen without anyone being nudged to come on by friends, there is just enough people online every single day for these to occur. It is true that some hours of the day are particularly more active than others, however.
I cannot speak on 1-4 as I have never done it.

76 pvp hasn’t been active for about 3-4 months. When it was active, we had to use a discord group to try and call people on to play at the same time- this is something we don’t have to do at 14 to clash.

At 86, I never had a full OP set so I didn’t actively try and find clashes on a daily basis. However, I am aware that when they want to clash it is arranged, and whenever I did try and join zone at a random time, it was always empty.

Like I said, I can only speak on my own experiences. I haven’t tried 86 pvp since 3/3 bloodstar so I do not know if it is more active now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cinco]

There are multiple clashes of 2v2, 3v3, and 4v4 every single day at 14. These happen without anyone being nudged to come on by friends, there is just enough people online every single day for these to occur. It is true that some hours of the day are particularly more active than others, however.
I cannot speak on 1-4 as I have never done it.

76 pvp hasn’t been active for about 3-4 months. When it was active, we had to use a discord group to try and call people on to play at the same time- this is something we don’t have to do at 14 to clash.

At 86, I never had a full OP set so I didn’t actively try and find clashes on a daily basis. However, I am aware that when they want to clash it is arranged, and whenever I did try and join zone at a random time, it was always empty.

Like I said, I can only speak on my own experiences. I haven’t tried 86 pvp since 3/3 bloodstar so I do not know if it is more active now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks! That is all I wanted.

[Dopein]

Thanks! That is all I wanted.

Sir, we are still facing the big trouble to enjoy playing. It was good the way it was before. Haste trainers work as intended. But all of the players keep asking You for the damage trainer fix. At least gapped values for PvP. Thats all we really want. Players be ruining rooms one tapping every1 using one single aa. Its not how it suppose to work. Pet stronger than actuall player? No counter play? Rethink all of that and please, implement the changes we ask for. Much appreciated


Wysłane z iPhone za pomocą Tapatalk

[Americanarmy]

Sir, we are still facing the big trouble to enjoy playing. It was good the way it was before. Haste trainers work as intended. But all of the players keep asking You for the damage trainer fix. At least gapped values for PvP. Thats all we really want. Players be ruining rooms one tapping every1 using one single aa. Its not how it suppose to work. Pet stronger than actuall player? No counter play? Rethink all of that and please, implement the changes we ask for. Much appreciated


Wysłane z iPhone za pomocą Tapatalk

Never


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Leonytis]

We developed Honor PvP to entertain Players who wanted balance over loot.

Twink PvP will always be more subject to procs and special gear effects, Pet powers and Evolution bonuses - because it is Twink PvP.

I say this with love: you can fix this by going Endgame or by going Honor.

Yeah. Go to end game and get 1 hit by wars instead


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk