Debate about the new dungeon timer system

[ProSophist]

Note to reader: Please do not get this thread closed by starting a flame war or posting useless rubbish. The purpose of this thread is to civilly discuss thoughts, ideas, or complaints about the new timer system's effect on the Season 1 leaderboards for Crypts and Elite map records.

After yesterday's patch, people are now aware that the dungeon timers have been change. As of right now, the timer starts once a mob is aggro'd, rather than killing a mob. The biggest dilemma in this patch is that most people can't seem to understand that real effect that it does on the leaderboards.

The patch didn't improve anybody's chances of getting in the leaderboard, it got diminished. It basically grants the current players on the LB a lock on their spot.

Since the timer now starts on the initial aggro of a mob, there is NO WAY anybody can beat any of the current timers. Most of the runs were careful planned and organized through trial and error to achieve those timers, which is no way shape or form considered cheating. Pre-patch, you could guesstimate the distance, time, and number of mobs needed to be killed in order to spawn the boss. Post-patch, those variables are irrelevant since the timer starts the moment a mob is pulled.

I have no problem having this new system in Season 2. However, if this system permanently stays for the remainder of S1, best believe that the current Crypts timers will NEVER be beat, and the Elite maps will most likely stay as well, which means whatever you see on the leaderboard right now will most likely be the final look of it.

Am I a little ticked off that I can no longer challenge the current records? Yes.
Do I care? Not so much. However, rest assured that many people are irate because S2 isn't due till in about 2 weeks(optimistically), and that it is more than enough time to try and beat the current records. Although I do have several spots on the board, I would like a fair shot on every category on the same playing field that these records were set.

More importantly, does this new system give MORE players a BETTER chance of getting in the leaderboards in Season 2? An absolute, emphatic NO. I've seen a couple of people run this logic through their head, which boggles my mind. I don't see how this makes timed runs easier. The same rule applies to everyone, and if anything, the top timed run players will be able to adjust.

And yes, this is a big deal. It has been announced that people on the upper echelon of the leaderboards will be rewarded as the season ends.

Input from STS would be appreciated.

[Astrocat]

The biggest dilemma in this patch is that most people can't seem to understand that real effect that it does on the leaderboards.
The patch didn't improve anybody's chances of getting in the leaderboard, it got diminished. It basically grants the current players on the LB a lock on their spot.

Since the timer now starts on the initial aggro of a mob, there is NO WAY anybody can beat any of the current timers. Most of the runs were careful planned and organized through trial and error to achieve those timers, which is no way shape or form a cheating.

Thumb up for this.

[Muhmota]

It's almost like a planned soft lock/end of the season by sts. As pvp seasons in Wow ended a couple weeks before a content update was released. Allowing devs to calculate awards and titles and such.

Just a conspiracy. They forgot to announce end of season when they should have. And didn't want a backlash of a sudden announcement. So they patched in a soft lock.


Just a thought.......

[Justg]

We hear ya. Let us all get back in the office on Monday and we'll discuss.

Thanks and have a great weekend!

- g

[Astrocat]

We hear ya. Let us all get back in the office on Monday and we'll discuss.

Thanks and have a great weekend!

- g

You too, G!

[Limsi]

Timely reply from the devs; there's no better feeling that people who are deemed responsible for a community like AL would make their constituents feel cared for. Now let us patiently wait for the development and hope to get a glimpse of the better future ahead of us.

[mafiainc42]

ive been with sts since start and what i do know is this they change things every now and then so does this mean every time they change things there gonna reset everything that people have accomplished and more importantly are they gonna refund ALL the platnium to everyone who used it doing the elixer run part of the leaderboards?

[Raxin]

My pet starts timer breaking boxes at spawn..... Y sts y

[Royce]

It's pretty simple. Clearly the leaderboards must be reset, and either the old times just get tossed out, or they call the time of the last patch the end of season 1, give out awards or whatever, and move on.

[LwMark]

ive been with sts since start and what i do know is this they change things every now and then so does this mean every time they change things there gonna reset everything that people have accomplished and more importantly are they gonna refund ALL the platnium to everyone who used it doing the elixer run part of the leaderboards?

Reset: yes
Return: no

[Phoenician1]

Thoughts

1) Not sure it would be possible to beat the current scores, although since I think the counters go down to fractions of seconds, it might be. But if not, then I think the issue is moot.

2) This issue might just go away when the new update comes out in a few days, and the current 'season' presumably will end. (That said, the timing of this change could have been better.)

And this brings up a possible addition to the game (but also a potential can of worms): will previous seasons' times be memorialized anywhere in-game? Or will each seasons' times merely pass into memory? The leaders themselves will get a nice vanity, but will anyone else be able to marvel at their accomplishments? (And given this season's controversy, is this something the community wants?)

[Bashem]

Id like to add the crypts and tomb had a patch a while ago were instead of timer ending after last mob died you had to run back to the exit to end now. So if you revert this patch as yes it made it harder revert that one also please as it makes those runs harder to beat. If u revert one because of complaints revert all timer adjustments u did over last few weeks not just the most recent. We havent even bothered with tombs krypts since you changed when timer stoped. Either end season one now or revert all adjustments till season two thats fair.

[Johnn92]

I don't like the timer anyways.

[Azibas]

I am disappointed about the behaviour of how the runs work, thus effectively closing the runs. The weekend is my best time to actually find a team and really work together to see if we can achieve the best an AL player can get. No matter what season you have the same ppl with the same gear will always take over the leaderboards. There is a pile of time that goes into discussion and doing it the wrong way many times, time everything to be perfect with four ppl is not an easy task. And the sense of accomplishment when it does work together is awesome. Im going to be a continual advocate of this, but I honestly would like the timed runs to also have a daily realm record. Or something like a cap on maximum damage. Just something that evens the playing field for everyone and gives everyone a chance to see their name up on the lb.

[Deathpunch]

As far as leveling the playing field, require all enemies to be killed to stop the timer. Not much help for season one, but for two. Clock starts when an enemy is attacked, clock stops when the last one dies. Seems fair to me. STS, just make sure that first mob is back far enough that we don't have to worry about our pets starting it before we're ready.

-----
Note to reader: This post should likely be read in a sarcastic tone of voice.

[Bashem]

I am disappointed about the behaviour of how the runs work, thus effectively closing the runs. The weekend is my best time to actually find a team and really work together to see if we can achieve the best an AL player can get. No matter what season you have the same ppl with the same gear will always take over the leaderboards. There is a pile of time that goes into discussion and doing it the wrong way many times, time everything to be perfect with four ppl is not an easy task. And the sense of accomplishment when it does work together is awesome. Im going to be a continual advocate of this, but I honestly would like the timed runs to also have a daily realm record. Or something like a cap on maximum damage. Just something that evens the playing field for everyone and gives everyone a chance to see their name up on the lb.

Everyone can achieve the same gear atleast right now i dont understand a damage cap. Thats basicaly saying i dont have the best gear cause i couldnt spend the time to get it. I want on leader boards but cant beat the people that spent the time to do so and organize. Listen everyone has the chance to get on the boards if they stop messin with timers mid seasons you just have to want it and find others to work on it also. No ones fault if your not on it but your own. Lb been up and runnin for weeks now the seasons almost over and the complaints come in. Cant please them all. Take the time and do it if you want it dont wait till the end longer you wait bigger chance you wont get and a patch may hurt chances.

[Phoenician1]

Liking both Deathpunch's and Azibas's suggestions.

[mafiainc42]

i agree with most of the stuff that has been said but for season 2. not all gamers are created equal so u can get the lvl playing field notion out of your heads. What will the excuse be going forward when the same names are there every season!!!

Because believe me and remember this post they will be.

[ProSophist]

Again, I think people are missing the point on this thread. Yes, the issues will DEFINITELY disappear for next season, but what we are talking about is THIS season. What I am trying to point out is that the patch unofficially ended Season 1. Because of the disparity between the timer system pre-patch and post-patch, there is basically nothing you can do to beat the current records. Now whether this change was inadvertent or not, the lack of advance notice prior to this patch irritated a lot of people because they weren't able to get one last desperation shot at the leaderboard.

To put it more simply, think of the leaderboard as the cap vanity. You are 500 exp away from getting your elite vanity and you decide to put if off until . The next day, STS plugs in the next elite cap without advance notice, so you end up missing on the previous vanity. Wouldn't we all be pissed? Wouldn't everyone be clamoring as to why they did not warn the people about this?

We are talking about Season 1 folks. It doesn't matter what system we start off at Season 2 because everyone would be starting by the same rules and mechanics.

i agree with most of the stuff that has been said but for season 2. not all gamers are created equal so u can get the lvl playing field notion out of your heads. What will the excuse be going forward when the same names are there every season!!!

Because believe me and remember this post they will be.

Not all gamers are created equal? Sure. But what does have anything to do in creating an even playing field?
Nobody is making excuses. The argument is that because of the patch, it basically grants current record holders a lock on their spot, but people were never notified in advance nor do we know whether this was intentional or not. Take note that S2 won't be here till at least a week or two, and everyone would want tho use that time to challenge the records. Yes I do agree that the current leaders will always have a leg up on the competition, but again, that's not the point.

I think you either misunderstood or never read the first post. I suggest you go over it again.

[Astrocat]

Again, I think people are missing the point on this thread. Yes, the issues will DEFINITELY disappear for next season, but what we are talking about is THIS season. What I am trying to point out is that the patch unofficially ended Season 1. Because of the disparity between the timer system pre-patch and post-patch, there is basically nothing you can do to beat the current records. Now whether this change was inadvertent or not, the lack of advance notice prior to this patch irritated a lot of people because they weren't able to get one last go at the leaderboard.

To put it more simply, think of the leaderboard as the cap vanity. You are 500 exp away from getting your elite vanity and you decide to put if off until . The next day, STS plugs in the next elite cap without advance notice, so you end up missing on the previous vanity. Wouldn't we all be pissed? Wouldn't everyone be clamoring as to why they did not warn the people about this?

We are talking about Season 1 folks. It doesn't matter what system we start off at Season 2 because everyone would be starting by the same rules and mechanics.




Not all gamers are created equal? Sure. But what does have anything to do in creating an even playing field?
Nobody is making excuses. The argument is that because of the patch, it basically grants current record holders a lock on their spot, but people were never notified in advance nor do we know whether this was intentional or not. Take note that S2 won't be here till at least a week or two, and everyone would want tho use that time to challenge the records. Yes I do agree that the current leaders will always have a leg up on the competition, but again, that's not the point.

I think you either misunderstood or never read the first post. I suggest you go over it again.

All true, boe