Skyward Smash Vs Windmill

**ShadowGunX** · 12-09-2012, 11:36 PM

Both of these r great aoe skill.
So of which these two r better aoe skill?

**Piosidon** · 12-09-2012, 11:54 PM

Windmill

**TheLowerLight** · 12-10-2012, 12:13 AM

hmm . . depends. . . windmill can have 3 hits, but you can use smash 3 times before windmill is off cooldown lol. . .

**ShadowGunX** · 12-10-2012, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by TheLowerLight

hmm . . depends. . . windmill can have 3 hits, but you can use smash 3 times before windmill is off cooldown lol. . .

well although it hit 3 mobs, u can move freely around hitting almost evry enemy. u can kill enemies pretty fast rather than spamming hammer.

**Bless** · 12-10-2012, 02:09 AM

Aoe wise, windmill but dps wise sky

**Kenoon** · 12-10-2012, 04:31 AM

Threat output wise, Windmill wins Skyward Smash.
Damage wise, Skyward Smash is stronger.
Skyward Smash spamming has higher dps provided there is consistent mana regen.

**ShadowGunX** · 12-10-2012, 05:24 AM

Originally Posted by Kenoon

Threat output wise, Windmill wins Skyward Smash.
Damage wise, Skyward Smash is stronger.
Skyward Smash spamming has higher dps provided there is consistent mana regen.

well well well; although smash hit hard bt for one time hit only. windmill hit 10x times than hammer lol. so windmill has more total dmg. :-)

**Delirium** · 12-10-2012, 05:49 AM

Windmill may have a higher total damage per use, but you can use skyward smash multiple times for every 1 use of windmill. Also, with skyward smash, EVERYTHING within 6 meters gets hit--not just 3 enemies. If there are 5+ enemies around you, skyward smash is much more efficient.

Windmill is better for PUG tomb runs because usually stuff gets spread out and you need to move around to hit everything, but in a party that lets you gather the mobs properly, skyward smash is better in my opinion.

**Kenoon** · 12-10-2012, 05:53 AM

Dps = Skyward Smash
Tanking = Windmill

***Zero*** · 12-11-2012, 09:04 PM

Originally Posted by Kenoon

Dps = Skyward Smash
Tanking = Windmill

This is totally wrong. It's why there are so many fail tanks atm.
Windmill is not a tanking skill. There is no upgrade that even helps tanking. If you want a REAL tanking skill choose Chest Splitter. It's a aoe attack also that slashes mobs in front of you. It hits more targets than windmill. It taunts which is a plus, increased crit another plus and last but not least the attack damage is better. Oh and not to mention the fast cooldown.

**Kenoon** · 12-11-2012, 11:20 PM

Originally Posted by *Zero*

This is totally wrong. It's why there are so many fail tanks atm.
Windmill is not a tanking skill. There is no upgrade that even helps tanking. If you want a REAL tanking skill choose Chest Splitter. It's a aoe attack also that slashes mobs in front of you. It hits more targets than windmill. It taunts which is a plus, increased crit another plus and last but not least the attack damage is better. Oh and not to mention the fast cooldown.

I used to think the same as you but my explanations why windmill is better for tanking was due to the accumulative threat, proc hit stacking damage and mana consistency.

And due to CS high threat output, some clown warriors went all out to spam their skills with staggering blow sub tree skill added, does not stand together with tank warriors position and caused the boss windup's arc of fire to keep switching directions causing the deaths of rogue & mages.

Originally Posted by ShadowGunX

i agree with zero. CS is an initial skill that every warrior should hav as it pulls aggro every 3sec nd useful at bosses greatly.

If DPS warriors knows about how Chest Splitter works, all the more they should stand together with the tank warriors. Why dafug they wanna run away from boss windups when they added staggering blow to their subtree which is a 100% counter skill and they won't even be taking any damage.
IF they wanna play dodgeball style like rogue class, they shouldn't even add staggering blow in the first place!

Oh yes, as tanking warrior, they should be using trollbane instead of Vorpal blades since Windmill with duration increased subtree added will proc 4 hits & thus increases the chance to proc fire DOT (dmg over time) onto the boss or creeps. 4 hits WM with 10 seconds cooldown vs 2 X SS in 8 seconds. Or do you want to count it by 8 hits WM in 20 secs vs 5 hits SS in 20 secs?

I owned lv15 agile vorpal, lv16 agile vorpal, lv16 mighty vorpal and lv16 trollbane.
Although trollbanes proc is 10% compared to vorpal's unstated % (assume it 100%), but from my usage, i observed the proccing to be very much effective with windmill and with stacked vengeful blood & pet, i saw a 285 crit dmg while using it.

Threat output & fire effect proccing on boss tanking, so which skill would be more effective?
I was busy to reply the same answer to all similar threads so i hope this answers to your doubt.
So this is totally wrong?
Are you even a tank by the way? lol

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...h-explanations

***Zero*** · 12-12-2012, 09:02 AM

Originally Posted by Kenoon

I used to think the same as you but my explanations why windmill is better for tanking was due to the accumulative threat, proc hit stacking damage and mana consistency.

And due to CS high threat output, some clown warriors went all out to spam their skills with staggering blow sub tree skill added, does not stand together with tank warriors position and caused the boss windup's arc of fire to keep switching directions causing the deaths of rogue & mages.

If DPS warriors knows about how Chest Splitter works, all the more they should stand together with the tank warriors. Why dafug they wanna run away from boss windups when they added staggering blow to their subtree which is a 100% counter skill and they won't even be taking any damage.
IF they wanna play dodgeball style like rogue class, they shouldn't even add staggering blow in the first place!

Oh yes, as tanking warrior, they should be using trollbane instead of Vorpal blades since Windmill with duration increased subtree added will proc 4 hits & thus increases the chance to proc fire DOT (dmg over time) onto the boss or creeps. 4 hits WM with 10 seconds cooldown vs 2 X SS in 8 seconds. Or do you want to count it by 8 hits WM in 20 secs vs 5 hits SS in 20 secs?

I owned lv15 agile vorpal, lv16 agile vorpal, lv16 mighty vorpal and lv16 trollbane.
Although trollbanes proc is 10% compared to vorpal's unstated % (assume it 100%), but from my usage, i observed the proccing to be very much effective with windmill and with stacked vengeful blood & pet, i saw a 285 crit dmg while using it.

Threat output & fire effect proccing on boss tanking, so which skill would be more effective?
I was busy to reply the same answer to all similar threads so i hope this answers to your doubt.
So this is totally wrong?
Are you even a tank by the way? lol

http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...h-explanations

i guess your referring to me. Yes I am a tank. And no I do not use trollbane. The dot is worth giving up 100%crit, last time I checked it only did like 1 damage every tick in elite maps. All I can do is add you in game and let ya join are elite runs and see how well you hold aggro. But from actual tests in game windmill is not worth the waste of a skill point.

With passives coming maybe builds will change but ATM in any elite bael, troll or mother runs windmill is not helping the party.

**Delirium** · 12-10-2012, 07:17 AM

dps is directly related to tanking, so that is a contradictory statement..

I use skyward smash and chest splitter on my tank, and I've literally never come across another warrior using windmill who could take aggro from me.. not even for a second. I personally don't think windmill is better than skyward smash for ANYTHING except for doing tomb runs.

**Kenoon** · 12-10-2012, 07:51 AM

Play more runs in Jarl.
Most of the time i'm taking the aggro as tank.
Have not seen Skyward Smash taking over neither.
Probably we get to meet.

**Raxin** · 12-10-2012, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Adam Carter:887982

dps is directly related to tanking, so that is a contradictory statement..

I use skyward smash and chest splitter on my tank, and I've literally never come across another warrior using windmill who could take aggro from me.. not even for a second. I personally don't think windmill is better than skyward smash for ANYTHING except for doing tomb runs.

Come se me bro and ill show you one war with windmill that will take aggro off you

**Delirium** · 12-10-2012, 02:35 PM

Okay.. my IGN is Elfstone. Hit me up whenever you want =)

**Raxin** · 12-10-2012, 03:14 PM

Ill hit you up ingame we are guildies. :-)
ill also go farther to say the 10%dam +on sky will get shat upon by the 15% per swing wind as the linear bonuses progress with lvl increases. Even more if the 15% stacks per hit until skill is done.

**Delirium** · 12-11-2012, 12:15 AM

The range on SM (18m) is literally 3x the range of WM (6m).. plus I can use it almost 3 times for every 1 WM you use. Also, SM damage is 131-164 while WM is only 103-129--that negates your 5% bonus damage and THEN some.

I don't know.. maybe WM IS better on paper.. but from my experience, I've never lost aggro to a warrior using WM--even one with better gear. We'll see I suppose =)

**Crystalite** · 12-11-2012, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by Adam Carter

The range on SM (18m) is literally 3x the range of WM (6m).. plus I can use it almost 3 times for every 1 WM you use. Also, SM damage is 131-164 while WM is only 103-129--that negates your 5% bonus damage and THEN some.

I don't know.. maybe WM IS better on paper.. but from my experience, I've never lost aggro to a warrior using WM--even one with better gear. We'll see I suppose =)

We can do some math for boss fight(since that is most important) using your stats. SM cd is 4sec. WM cd is 10sec.

In 20sec and assuming we do not factor in skill casting time, 5 casts of SM= (131+164)/2x5=737.5
In 20sec and assuming we do not factor in skill casting time, 2 casts of WM= (103+129)/2x4x2=928
(if you are wondering where the 4 for WM comes from, it is due to the 4 procs that each cast of WM has. Note also that for aoe, each of these 4 procs allows 3 mobs to be hit. This means a total of 12 hits for 1 cast of WM.)

Note the above situation does not factor in charged cast time. Using SM would require longer cast times over 5 casts, which would allow the WM warrior to use additional normal attacks or other skills during this period.

For aoe trash mobs situation:
Let us consider the group of 5 mobs before jarl as an example.
In 20sec, 5 casts of SM= (131+164)/2x5x5= 3,687.5
In 20sec, 2 casts of WM= (103+129)/2x4x2x3= 2,784
This assumes SM hits all 5 mobs on all 5 casts and mobs remain stacked close together. Also, Note that longer charged cast time for 5 SM. WM user can use CS during this period to add in more dmg. However, for simplicity's sake, it appears that SM has potential for more dmg for aoe situation of 5mobs.

Hope I have not made any errors in my math or logical reasoning.

**ShadowGunX** · 12-11-2012, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by Crystalite

We can do some math for boss fight(since that is most important) using your stats. SM cd is 4sec. WM cd is 10sec.

In 20sec and assuming we do not factor in skill casting time, 5 casts of SM= (131+164)/2x5=737.5
In 20sec and assuming we do not factor in skill casting time, 2 casts of WM= (103+129)/2x4x2=928
(if you are wondering where the 4 for WM comes from, it is due to the 4 procs that each cast of WM has. Note also that for aoe, each of these 4 procs allows 3 mobs to be hit. This means a total of 12 hits for 1 cast of WM.)

Note the above situation does not factor in charged cast time. Using SM would require longer cast times over 5 casts, which would allow the WM warrior to use additional normal attacks or other skills during this period.

For aoe trash mobs situation:
Let us consider the group of 5 mobs before jarl as an example.
In 20sec, 5 casts of SM= (131+164)/2x5x5= 3,687.5
In 20sec, 2 casts of WM= (103+129)/2x4x2x3= 2,784
This assumes SM hits all 5 mobs on all 5 casts and mobs remain stacked close together. Also, Note that longer charged cast time for 5 SM. WM user can use CS during this period to add in more dmg. However, for simplicity's sake, it appears that SM has potential for more dmg for aoe situation of 5mobs.

Hope I have not made any errors in my math or logical reasoning.

good maths B-) bt u can use WM moving around in circle until u hit all mobs. 3hit of WM is flat hit. moving around with toon while WM is on will hit almost all nd in jst one WM use we can eliminate those 5mobs :-) while 2-3 SM is needed to eliminate it :-P