Feedback: Luck (Reroll)

[asommers]

We're considering a change to how luck currently works.

Currently:

• Luck represents a chance to perform a single second roll and keep the better of the two items ("better" is defined at higher rarity)
• Luck only allows you to roll into the next rarity (you can't roll from Common to Arcane)
• Luck values above 100% are not applied

Proposed:

• For every 100% of luck, you're guaranteed another roll. Any remainder will turn into a chance at another roll. You keep just one item.
  
  • If you have 0% luck, you just get your initial roll.
  • If you have 40% luck, you get your initial roll, plus a 40% chance to roll again (keeping the better item)
  • If you have 250% luck, you get your initial roll, plus a bonus roll, plus another bonus roll, plus a 50% chance to roll again (keeping the best item)
  
  
• Treat each roll on its own keeping the better item along the way (you'll be able to roll from Common to Arcane)

Ordered Rarity List:

• Common
• Rare
• Epic
• Legendary
• Mythic
• Vanity
• Spirit
• Set
• Arcane
• Heroic

Notes:

• Luck will continue to work ONLY for monster drops, not packs.
• Luck is not applied to bomb-type loot (you open an item and others around you receive additional items)
• Do not allow rerolling if the initial item rolled was Vanity rarity

Examples	Final Item
40% Luck Initially rolled a Legendary Armor 40% chance (fail) for Roll A	Legendary Armor
40% Luck Initially rolled a Epic Armor 40% chance (success) for Roll A which was a Common Sword (ignore, common < epic)	Epic Armor
250% Luck Initially rolled a Rare Artifact Roll A is a Common Sword (ignored, common < rare) Roll B is a Legendary Armor (keep, legendary > rare) 50% chance (success) for Roll C which was a Mythic Shard (keep, mythic > legendary)	Mythic Shard
250% Luck Initially rolled a Vanity Helm (No additional rolls due to initial item being vanity)	Vanity Helm

Thoughts/comments/feedback?

-ALS

[Kakashis]

If it was possible to roll away from vanities before, then I'm all for this new system. Vanities seem to be harder and harder to loot during boss drops especially endgame and events.

[intruders]

Sounds good!

However, in practice it may not have much effect as almost all worthy loot comes from another "special" loot table that is not affected by luck or 2x boss elixir e.g. Mentis in Halloween.

Apart from eggzavier (who's gone) and few other events where luck was useful (e.g. tokens from enemies that could reroll) there's not much use of it. It used to play an important role in Easter event but you "fixed" that.

By the way, is 2x boss loot elixir gone for good?

[Yuggernaut]

· People disable their lucky stats in Duneveil miniboss because that's how they obtain rare items, which are more valuable,
Even the Shattered items used to craft Corrupted are legendary. So, with luck, you get other things; that is, you have to check the rarity levels in duneveil and endgame content in general

· I generally remember that people used luck to get red chests and old locked chests, and I recall that the vast majority of free-to-play and non-free-to-play players were happy with that. So,
is there really any droppable content now with the revamped luck system? (Excluding Dune, since all the maps, or at least Zodias and Elderwoods, are empty)

· In general, this will only be useful for Duneveil for now (and even then, only after they fix Duneveil, because right now it's literally a desert) and for some events, but thanks anyway for this improvement

[Alexwwe]

I like the new one proposed

[Oakmaiden]

· People disable their lucky stats in Duneveil miniboss because that's how they obtain rare items, which are more valuable,
Even the Shattered items used to craft Corrupted are legendary. So, with luck, you get other things; that is, you have to check the rarity levels in duneveil and endgame content in general

· I generally remember that people used luck to get red chests and old locked chests, and I recall that the vast majority of free-to-play and non-free-to-play players were happy with that. So,
is there really any droppable content now with the revamped luck system? (Excluding Dune, since all the maps, or at least Zodias and Elderwoods, are empty)

· In general, this will only be useful for Duneveil for now (and even then, only after they fix Duneveil, because right now it's literally a desert) and for some events, but thanks anyway for this improvement

Agrees, the system is pointless without dropping loot. Useful items, craft components and boss loot. If it drops more rare/epic/legendary gears that’s a downer.

[Encryptions]

The biggest issue with the current system is it rerolls good items into worse items alot of the time.

How about making it where it increases the chance of dropping more exclusive items?
So if an arcane item from the boss has a 0.2% chance to drop then 100% luck will make it a 0.4% chance. 200% will make it 0.6% chance. 250% makes it a 0.7% chance.

The only change needed that I see in order for this to work; multiple items would need to be allowed to drop at once.
If there is a 1% chance for legendary, 5% for epic, 10% for common, and 0.5% for arcane, those chances are the chances to drop, 1 of each item can only drop though.

Kill the boss - nothing but gold drops.
Kill the boss - arcane drops and epic drops.
Kill the boss - arcane, legendary, mythic, epic, rare, common drops.

I mean this can be your next big thing, people would pay like crazy to increase their luck to drop items worth 100m+.

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[Rauigriu]

Asommers, with respect to reroll to the next rarity, the previous forum post (and it’s been awhile since we’ve had a legitimate post about luck/reroll) that most people referenced regarding luck/rerolls was that the rarities were grouped. Group 1: Common, Rare & Epic which could reroll to Group 2: Legendary & Mythic then Group 3 Arcane, and Group 4 Heroic which included vanities.

So to confirm, when you say only the next rarity, per your post above, an initial roll of common gear can ONLY reroll to rare and no better?

[asommers]

NOTE: THE PROPOSED CHANGES ARE NOW LIVE (link).

If it was possible to roll away from vanities before, then I'm all for this new system. Vanities seem to be harder and harder to loot during boss drops especially endgame and events.

With the old system, it would only have been possible to roll away from vanities with the old system if you rolled a higher-than-Vanity rarity.

However, in practice it may not have much effect as almost all worthy loot comes from another "special" loot table that is not affected by luck or 2x boss elixir e.g. Mentis in Halloween. ... By the way, is 2x boss loot elixir gone for good?

Mentis was in a monster loot table for Halloween, so it would have been available to reroll with either system. The 2x Boss Elixir is currently not available in the store.

· People disable their lucky stats in Duneveil miniboss because that's how they obtain rare items, which are more valuable,
Even the Shattered items used to craft Corrupted are legendary. So, with luck, you get other things; that is, you have to check the rarity levels in duneveil and endgame content in general

How about making it where it increases the chance of dropping more exclusive items?

I guess this means loot is subjective. You might be chasing a lower-rarity item, but luck might give you an item of higher rarity. Since I can't know what you're chasing, at least you know how the system works. With the new system, you will get more chances to loot the higher rarity items at least.

Asommers, with respect to reroll to the next rarity, the previous forum post (and it’s been awhile since we’ve had a legitimate post about luck/reroll) that most people referenced regarding luck/rerolls was that the rarities were grouped. Group 1: Common, Rare & Epic which could reroll to Group 2: Legendary & Mythic then Group 3 Arcane, and Group 4 Heroic which included vanities.

So to confirm, when you say only the next rarity, per your post above, an initial roll of common gear can ONLY reroll to rare and no better?

Without going into implementation details:

• With the old system, there were only 2 groups. Common/rare/epic (group 1) would roll up to just one rarity higher from what you originally rolled. Legendary+ (group 2) would allow rolling anything higher. The old system prevented you from getting an Arcane if you initially rolled a Common, but if you initially rolled a Legendary, you could roll an Arcane with luck.
• With the new system, you can roll anything allowing you to roll an Arcane even if your initial roll was a Common. I just roll multiple times based on your luck value and give you the best item (highest rarity).

-ALS

[Encryptions]

Can it be setup to be able to drop all rarities at once? Each rarity has its own chance to drop.
If loot table has 5 arcanes 2 mythics and say you are lucky and loot both rarities. It will go to arcane and 1 of the 5 choices will drop 20% per item, mythic say there is a jewel and egg, there is a 50% chance it drops the jewel and a 50% chance to drop the egg.

The chance to drop the rarity its self is 0.1%.

[Tasitrix]

Is this luck update live?

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[dmqp]

- I barely see any re-rolls with 250% luck, but it’s still too soon to give proper feedback. I’ll take some time and share my thoughts later.
- One thing I was hoping the “new” luck would affect are elite runner chests, but it doesn’t seem to work on them.
- Is 250% cap? I understand that reaching 300 might be difficult, but I’m just wondering if it’s even worth it.

[Archadya]

221% luck

These are 2 runs' loot with double boss elixir active, it rerolled on the first run but the second it didn't reroll at all, im always using the above luck% and not switching loadouts also

is this intended for the new system ?

[Encryptions]

The way the system works is a reroll message will not pop up in chat if you have looted the best possible item in the rerolls.
If you have 250% luck and looted a legendary item when mythic is the best then it will privately reroll 2 times and maybe a 3rd time, if in those 2-3 rerolls a mythic doesn't pop up then you won't see a reroll message.

Reroll is like killing the boss 2-3 times extra but only get the best possible loot out of those 2-3 times.

[asommers]

Can it be setup to be able to drop all rarities at once? Each rarity has its own chance to drop.
If loot table has 5 arcanes 2 mythics and say you are lucky and loot both rarities. It will go to arcane and 1 of the 5 choices will drop 20% per item, mythic say there is a jewel and egg, there is a 50% chance it drops the jewel and a 50% chance to drop the egg.

The chance to drop the rarity its self is 0.1%.

Our system doesn't really have odds per rarity, it has weights per rarity. The odds for any single item are computed as roughly its rarity weight divided by the sum total of all the weights of the items in the loot table. This way, you can have a loot table that can have any combination of rarities (even missing rarities), but that does lead to rarity skewing where the rarity odds could be higher based on item counts per rarity.

The table below is a very crude, nuance-stripped example with bogus weights per rarity. The Single Item Percentage shows what the odds would be if there were only one item in the list for each rarity. However, notice how the Multi-Item Percentage for an Arcane is higher than Legendary based on the number of items:



There is one exception to this which is awakenings, where I roll the rarity first (based on rarity weight) and then choose an enhancement from that rarity equally (link). I can't roll rarity first for loot tables because the 28000+ loot tables over the last 13 years have been tuned to the current method.

- One thing I was hoping the “new” luck would affect are elite runner chests, but it doesn’t seem to work on them.
- Is 250% cap? I understand that reaching 300 might be difficult, but I’m just wondering if it’s even worth it.

I don't know what your expectations for the Elite Runner chests are. There is no cap for luck. If you can get it above 500%, you'll get 5 additional rolls.

221% luck. These are 2 runs' loot with double boss elixir active, it rerolled on the first run but the second it didn't reroll at all, im always using the above luck% and not switching loadouts also

is this intended for the new system ?

I can see the confusion here. Luck is always applied for every roll. I've updated the message from "Your Luck let you reroll for better loot!" to "Your Luck gave you better loot!" if luck succeeded.

-ALS

[fikrialithaufik24]

Luck did not working on duneveil mini bosses.
Ive killed pretty much miniboss, and no one let me reroll.
It used to be worked even with only 25+30 luck elixirs withouT any luck stat gears.
Im using 138% luck before minibosses died. Please check it.

[bleyv]

The luck was fine before, literally nobody was complaining about the luck and you ruined it

[intruders]

The problem with this new luck system is that previously with 100% luck it was guaranteed (where luck worked) to reroll next rarity if original roll was common/rare/epic e g. epic loot would reroll to legendary, rare to epic etc.

Now if legendary item is low chance you will hardly see successful reroll e.g. 2-3 rerolls of 1% will likely yield nothing.

Please keep the old logic of common-epic rarity being rerolled to the next rarity.

Thank you for explaining roll in details!

If it doesn't roll rarity first, how did that next rarity mechanics worked before? Did you keep rolling until it's next rarity?

[asommers]

Please keep the old logic of common-epic rarity being rerolled to the next rarity.
...
If it doesn't roll rarity first, how did that next rarity mechanics worked before? Did you keep rolling until it's next rarity?

Best way to describe it would be an on-the-fly loot table was created of everything from next rarity and below and we rolled against that. I don't need to do that anymore since I'm now just rolling again using the original loot table.

I don't see the rerolling into the next rarity coming back. It's somewhat of a tradeoff now that luck greater than 100% actually has a benefit.

-ALS

[Encryptions]

I will make a vid in a day or 2 to explain how the system works, this is better than it was before. No one is understanding on how it precisely works.

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