Blinded by dps

[Energizeric]

I'm not sure why you guys think that I said DPS doesn't matter, but I never said that. Rush was the one who implied that. Yes, I know DPS matters and I agree that the best way to inflict damage is to hit the attack button while your skills are cooling down. I happen to have a very high DPS weapon, the clever flamestrike rod of assault. So yes, I agree.

As far as our time of doing Jarl runs in 1:15, yes I'm sure many can do better. When we did those runs a few days ago I still did not have top gear, nor did I have my clever flamestrike rod of assault yet. Now my DPS is about 40 points higher than it was just a few days ago. I have no idea what Rush's gear was like. But those were the fastest runs I had been in up to that point. Since then I've been on a few runs that were less than 1 minute.

Lastly, the comment about saying you've never even been on a Jarl run that takes longer than 2 minutes, then you've obviously never joined random games. I've been on some runs where Jarl wasn't even engaged yet in 2 minutes...LOL. Those runs where the mobs on the bridge get upset, and half the people die, then when they run back they bring the mobs with them.

[Delirium]

I'm not sure why you guys think that I said DPS doesn't matter, but I never said that. Rush was the one who implied that. Yes, I know DPS matters and I agree that the best way to inflict damage is to hit the attack button while your skills are cooling down. I happen to have a very high DPS weapon, the clever flamestrike rod of assault. So yes, I agree.

As far as our time of doing Jarl runs in 1:15, yes I'm sure many can do better. When we did those runs a few days ago I still did not have top gear, nor did I have my clever flamestrike rod of assault yet. Now my DPS is about 40 points higher than it was just a few days ago. I have no idea what Rush's gear was like. But those were the fastest runs I had been in up to that point. Since then I've been on a few runs that were less than 1 minute.

Lastly, the comment about saying you've never even been on a Jarl run that takes longer than 2 minutes, then you've obviously never joined random games. I've been on some runs where Jarl wasn't even engaged yet in 2 minutes...LOL. Those runs where the mobs on the bridge get upset, and half the people die, then when they run back they bring the mobs with them.

My bad.. I skipped a page or two. I was mainly talking to Rush even though I quoted you first, haha.

As for the random games, probably 75% of my jarl runs are public.. half the time we don't even have a tank, lol. I dunno.. did 50ish runs today, mostly public, and there wasn't a run that took longer than 1:45. I used 150 potions though! I did have to solo everything a couple times (with 3 other people in the zone).

[Royce]

Lastly, the comment about saying you've never even been on a Jarl run that takes longer than 2 minutes, then you've obviously never joined random games. I've been on some runs where Jarl wasn't even engaged yet in 2 minutes...LOL. Those runs where the mobs on the bridge get upset, and half the people die, then when they run back they bring the mobs with them.

I realize you have had poor Jarl luck (based on other threads in this forum ), but not everyone shares your experiences. I play almost exclusively in pugs. If there is more than one warrior, I will often find another game unless everyone is 21, other than that I don't quit (occasionally if people start killing the scrooges I freed instead of letting them follow me to Jarl). Most runs are 0:50 to 1:15 or so. The longest are around 1:45, and those are rare.

[parnasofication]

Well i dont think i atk faster with the 25% speed elixir so i doubt u will atk faster lol , its all in ur mind dude hehe .

aw, too bad then. but i think it should affect attack speed. my imagination must have gone wild.

[Rare]

So much modesty in this thread

[Royce]

So skill damage depends on max DAMAGE not DPS?

It's based on damage yes, not DPS.

[Dragonik]

Agreed. While I don't know who prima is, all his post were back up with personal testing and 2nd party verification. He does not come across as someone trying to blow smoke up their own epeen.

1:45 jarl are not impressive at all just for the record. Not horrible, but also noty something to boast about.

Energizeric who is your mage btw? Wondering if.I've ran with you in game.

[primaeva]

Thanks Adam and Dragonik for listening. I think the OP has a valid point for PvP consideration if there existed a weapon with significantly higher damage than DPS, just that the two stats are still too closely interrelated. As for the current metagame, the exorbitant prices on high DPS weapons are, in fact, justified. That's what the point of my posts were.

I can't speculate what PvP is going to be like not having experienced it, but I do think my strategy will be on outlasting rather than bursting targets down. If anything, HP and Armor (and Mana!) are important stats that haven't even entered this discussion. Let's just wait for the good news.

[Dragonik]

I can also back you up with the WoW experience. While I understand that the two games aren't related, when you play WoW there is a lot more depth that causes you to think differently. With no experience as to how sts games PvP plays out it's difficult to come up with a realistic scenario. Only time will tell.

Let me also clarify I have not played WoW in a few years so I don't know what's it's like atm, I assume it has been dumbed down quite a bit from.what I've read.

[Energizeric]

Energizeric who is your mage btw? Wondering if.I've ran with you in game.

Same name as my forum name. I only have one character in each game (AL & PL) and I always go by this name, Energizeric. In PL I have a bear by this name.

[Energizeric]

I can't speculate what PvP is going to be like not having experienced it, but I do think my strategy will be on outlasting rather than bursting targets down. If anything, HP and Armor (and Mana!) are important stats that haven't even entered this discussion. Let's just wait for the good news.

I'm going to agree with you here. One of the big differences I see so far in AL when compared to PL is in AL the amount of health & mana we have is much much higher, and is proportional to our base stats. So for example, a level 20 player will have double the Health/Mana as a level 10 player. In PL a level 1 player will have 400-600 health/mana (depending on class) and an end game level 76 player will have at most 1000. Health/Mana in PL are not proportional to your base stats and instead you only receive about one extra health or mana point for each STR/INT point. So damage is a much higher percentage of health in PL than in AL. The result is that PvP matches tend to be very quick, especially at end game where 2-3 hits will kill the other player. So it's all about making the right combo and winning in a hurry. I have a feeling PvP in AL will be more of a grind than a quick burst of power.

[Royce]

I'm going to agree with you here. One of the big differences I see so far in AL when compared to PL is in AL the amount of health & mana we have is much much higher, and is proportional to our base stats. So for example, a level 20 player will have double the Health/Mana as a level 10 player. In PL a level 1 player will have 400-600 health/mana (depending on class) and an end game level 76 player will have at most 1000. Health/Mana in PL are not proportional to your base stats and instead you only receive about one extra health or mana point for each STR/INT point. So damage is a much higher percentage of health in PL than in AL. The result is that PvP matches tend to be very quick, especially at end game where 2-3 hits will kill the other player. So it's all about making the right combo and winning in a hurry. I have a feeling PvP in AL will be more of a grind than a quick burst of power.

Beyond that, I think the way they've done damage/armor in AL will make PvP very different from PL. In PL x armor mitigates y damage. There is a threshold that must be overcome before any damage is done, then additional damage behind that is done in full. Small and medium sized hits are ineffective and big hits dominate completely. In AL armor factors into overall damage reduction percentage which means that small hitting, high DPS builds could have a place. Who knows though, it is STS, so maybe it'll be just another nuke fest

[CosmoxKramer]

Plus you may be charging skills more for PVP because the charged effects are usually for utility, cc, etc. so there will be less spam time of AA in some skill builds.

[Energizeric]

Actually, in PvP I don't see myself charging skills much at all since for sorcerer skills charging is usually to add AoE effect, and since PvP is usually 1-on-1 probably best to just use skills non-charged.

[primaeva]

I'm going to agree with you here. One of the big differences I see so far in AL when compared to PL is in AL the amount of health & mana we have is much much higher, and is proportional to our base stats. So for example, a level 20 player will have double the Health/Mana as a level 10 player. In PL a level 1 player will have 400-600 health/mana (depending on class) and an end game level 76 player will have at most 1000. Health/Mana in PL are not proportional to your base stats and instead you only receive about one extra health or mana point for each STR/INT point. So damage is a much higher percentage of health in PL than in AL. The result is that PvP matches tend to be very quick, especially at end game where 2-3 hits will kill the other player. So it's all about making the right combo and winning in a hurry. I have a feeling PvP in AL will be more of a grind than a quick burst of power.

Wow. This is a huge bit of useful information for me. Flat armor reduction to % armor reduction has an insane effect on PvP and this definitely makes more builds (as well as the warrior and mage class) more viable. There might be more merit to a full strength build than a full int build, in fact.

The info on health pools is great as well. Thanks for that post!

Lastly, I heard there's different levels to PvP at. What's that about..? Individual level or every five levels or something?

Keep the useful posts coming

[primaeva]

Actually, in PvP I don't see myself charging skills much at all since for sorcerer skills charging is usually to add AoE effect, and since PvP is usually 1-on-1 probably best to just use skills non-charged.

Hmm, that's true for most spells but Arcane Shield, for example, and -25% hit on charged FB-- these might actually be vital to your build. Mana from charged Heal might actually make or break a team since I've heard no pots are allowed.

That's what I'm talking about-- the tankier players are, the more important considerations like speccing into int/str are.. and factors like DPS come into play (mana conservation).

Nuke fest PvP is lame because there is no "high-level"-- only who gets into position and gets the crit first. Not much skill in that.

[Limsi]

Hmm, that's true for most spells but Arcane Shield, for example, and -25% hit on charged FB-- these might actually be vital to your build. Mana from charged Heal might actually make or break a team since I've heard no pots are allowed.

That's what I'm talking about-- the tankier players are, the more important considerations like speccing into int/str are.. and factors like DPS come into play (mana conservation).

Nuke fest PvP is lame because there is no "high-level"-- only who gets into position and gets the crit first. Not much skill in that.

I have got to agree with this. True enough good positioning and with the luck of critical would merit an instant kill, but I'd rather see the true skill by dishing out deadly and orchestrated combos. I find it funny for those who boast their "elite, pro, best" status when the fight is characterized by the Nuke fest, just my opinion though! Have a good day!

[Energizeric]

Wow. This is a huge bit of useful information for me. Flat armor reduction to % armor reduction has an insane effect on PvP and this definitely makes more builds (as well as the warrior and mage class) more viable. There might be more merit to a full strength build than a full int build, in fact.

The info on health pools is great as well. Thanks for that post!

Lastly, I heard there's different levels to PvP at. What's that about..? Individual level or every five levels or something?

Keep the useful posts coming

In PL dodge has become very important for end game PvP. Warriors (bears) have the highest dodge in PL and dodge is determined by STR and gear (not DEX like in AL), so fully buffed some warriors can reach dodge rates as high as 90%. Another stat in PL of large importance is Hit %, which seems absent in AL. So PvP becomes a contest of Hit % vs Dodge %. Hit % is determined by dex. So Archers/birds (the dex class) have the high hit % and deal out the biggest damage, Wariors/bears have the highest armor and dodge, and they are the tanks, and Enchantress/elfs (the INT class) are the class that deals the highest critical damage hits, and of course they have the highest heal capability too. Potions are not allowed in PvP, and I'm guessing that will carry over to PvP.

As for levels, in PL if a Level 70 player makes the game, then nobody lower than 65 or higher than 75 can join. I would guess this will also carry over to AL.

[DataPunk]

Really guys, not to troll but 2 rogues having an agro epeen contest is no testing. U test by going at with exactly the same equip except for ur weapons.

[GoodSyntax]

@Royce and @Energizeric

Is the 200% crit applicable to skills only (unless overriden by the skill)?

So that would imply that the Bonus Damage % is only for auto-attack crit damage?

If that is the case, then some of the end-game, full Dex rogues that I see running around with 250+% Bonus Damage would have an even greater valuation of DPS vs Damage. If you can crit 250% in auto with a .55 sec dagger and 25+% crit chance (with a pet) why even bother much with Skill damage when 2-4 auto hits are essentially the same as a critted skill (except auto doesn't expend any mana and has no cooldown)?

At this point in my toon development, I only use my Aimed Shot for the 1 in 5 chance that it crits, and Shadow Strike for AoE damage. Noxious Bolt is just something that I throw in on occasion while I get into range and I use Shadow Piercer to land a hit and get out of range when I am soloing a boss. The majority of the damage is done via auto.

@Everyone Else
This is probably the single best AL post in the forum. Trolling, flaming and whining aside, there is a lot of good information and some worthwhile theories and math in here - so TY to all!