Nerf mage in 115, broken op class + invincible

[Imawolve]

I’ve played thousands of 115 rounds and I think most can agree that mage is absurdly broken and unbeatable, even birds struggle to break through them which is insane
This means any team without a mage just loses by default there’s nothing you can do when a mage taps ice fire and you’re just dead while you have 2 teammates who have thrown at least 7 hits into them and they are unscathed, this creates another issue that if you aim the mage fully their other teammates can nuke from behind, and if you don’t then the mage 2 taps everyone on your team and instantly brings back their teammates

Remove the 20% armor gain proc from heal, this literally powercreeps its own armor buff as well as everyone else’s, it has a 100% uptime and applies buff to everyone. It is fine in pve but in pvp it creates huge gaps in power between classes

Lower overall skill damage of skills at L11-12 by 10-15%, it makes no sense that it can win in 2-3 hits while everyone else has to hit 4-5 skills + fox being unable to kill it with all 8 of its skills sometimes

There is currently no counter play against a mage besides grabbing a crafted bird and winning a 40/60 at best

It just makes no sense why the best support healer class is also the best dps class and the best tank class all in one, we have other classes in game for those roles for a reason, not for mage to take all 3 and be its own 3 person team

[Underpowerful]

I actually agree 100% with this. Mages are absurdly powerful right now and have insane survivability with 3 different skills that give armor, all while matching the damage output of a bird.
20% armor buff from heal most definitely should be removed.

[oreo123]

It would be ridiculous to only nerf mage. Keep in mind imawolve is a one trick fox playing the worst class in the game with barely any mage experience in 115. There's so many times in pvp when a mage fights a really good bird and it's over in 2 seconds. Especially if they have craft vs a mage that has noncraft. There's a good amount of people that are mages with non craft and they will get destroyed and the experience for them will be terrible if they nerf heal buff. They need to buff fox instead. When I used noncrafted the only way i can beat good birds that were noncrafted in a 1v1 is if i went int set uncrafted(which is not good in 2 and 3s btw so have to be switchin back and forth) and im hella sweaty in 1v1s and the amount of kiting you have to do to have a chance is insane because bird does so much damage. The only thing that is a real issue is when a mage has crafted mythic int set and sand ring. The armor build is too strong in 2s 3s and 1v1s vs birds/foxes ur almost unbeatable.

[Imawolve]

It would be ridiculous to only nerf mage. Keep in mind imawolve is a one trick fox playing the worst class in the game with barely any mage experience in 115. There's so many times in pvp when a mage fights a really good bird and it's over in 2 seconds. Especially if they have craft vs a mage that has noncraft. There's a good amount of people that are mages with non craft and they will get destroyed and the experience for them will be terrible if they nerf heal buff. They need to buff fox instead. When I used noncrafted the only way i can beat good birds that were noncrafted in a 1v1 is if i went int set uncrafted(which is not good in 2 and 3s btw so have to be switchin back and forth) and im hella sweaty in 1v1s and the amount of kiting you have to do to have a chance is insane because bird does so much damage. The only thing that is a real issue is when a mage has crafted mythic int set and sand ring. The armor build is too strong in 2s 3s and 1v1s vs birds/foxes ur almost unbeatable.

I agree there that fox/bear/rhino could use a buff (I had another post about buffing ops which indirectly buffs these classes too) to compete with high range classes in a level where it’s heavily hit count based, but generally mages are unbeatable regardless of elite set or not in terms of team fights, it’s almost 100% of the time the team without a mage just loses and gets steamrolled whether or not they have crafted, while crafted itself is its own issue it also gives the most benefit to mages anyways with their triple armor buffs, a nerf to crafted and mage is greatly needed. (Only time I manage to win against them is when they are actively playing in a way that gives me/my team the win and even then it doesn’t take much effort to roll through your opponent using mage suboptimally)
I’ve been top 10 2s and 3s mage for a while and I still think it needs a heavy nerf for endgame given what the meta is right now,
but I also think birds need similar treatment in terms of how scream blast is a near 1 shot half the time (from my experience fighting them i just get dropped in those 2 skills )
As for 1v1s i dont believe in the level being 1v1 oriented which is more apparent given what you’ve stated with how unbalanced 1v1s between each classes are, for the most optimal experience in endgame you’d want to be running team fights so I don’t think it can be balanced to allow for skill based 1v1s. If players want skill based 1v1s we have L71 which is both 1v1 and team oriented

Tldr, buff ops, buff low range classes, nerf high range classes, nerf-remove tinker/crafted bonus in pvp, and try to only play 115 for team fights
The adjustments endgame needs are quite complicated so im really unsure any of this will get looked into for the time being, we just have to make do with unbalanced pvp as usual

[oreo123]

Again ur using a foxes perspective and wdym top 10 mages in 2s and 3s I’ve never seen you play mage in 115 lol and even if you did ur not a mage main so the amount of scenarios you encounter on mage is so minimal when it comes to all kinds of vs and 1v1s happen all the time wether you believe it’s “not” really 1v1 based. People have always taken pride in winning in any vs. you also have certain players/birds that use heal sets(where they take off their clothes and heal which makes them full hp in seconds MID fight which is cheesy and then you lose and it’s so hard to beat that on mage) also yes it’s very obvious that a good mage will dominate a team without a mage but that’s why you can make a mage and plus we have enough mages around anyways. In any game healing is most of the time going to be advantageous which is why it’s stupid to not learn the game that way. I do agree with nerfing crafted bonus in pvp so everyone has a fair chance not sure why we haven’t done that yet…

[Wofer]

I think the best nerf for mage is nerf his dodge, atleast halfway as it was before and consequently increase mana
for the bear, buff the health, class dodge buff and armor
rinho buff health and reduce skill loading time
and generally increase health or reduce damage
but I'm against the crafted nerf because all can farm fangs or buy to have one

[Imawolve]

Again ur using a foxes perspective and wdym top 10 mages in 2s and 3s I’ve never seen you play mage in 115 lol and even if you did ur not a mage main so the amount of scenarios you encounter on mage is so minimal when it comes to all kinds of vs and 1v1s happen all the time wether you believe it’s “not” really 1v1 based. People have always taken pride in winning in any vs. you also have certain players/birds that use heal sets(where they take off their clothes and heal which makes them full hp in seconds MID fight which is cheesy and then you lose and it’s so hard to beat that on mage) also yes it’s very obvious that a good mage will dominate a team without a mage but that’s why you can make a mage and plus we have enough mages around anyways. In any game healing is most of the time going to be advantageous which is why it’s stupid to not learn the game that way. I do agree with nerfing crafted bonus in pvp so everyone has a fair chance not sure why we haven’t done that yet…

Top 10 in skill based pvp* this just means I know the interactions without needing to physically be on the class, 115 isn’t real pvp so the gap between a good mage and a beginner is only in whoever doesn’t run into damage.
The fact that just existing on a mage even if they just started gives them free wins on players who’ve played their respective classes for years which is absurd given that no skill based pvp level offers that level of dominance without first needing to know the class in and out unlike 115.
To tell other players “use another class” while asking for mage to be able to quad dominate other classes on its own with no class counter is hypocritical, bird is a natural counter to mage the same way bear should be a natural counter to fox etc etc, so why should we have to get another class and not you?
I’ll state as well that mage is the class most rewarded by mistakes, this just means any beginner mage can run in and play bad and the other team just suffers despite doing everything possible to punish their play which is insane.
There is no sensical reason to why mage should give their whole team an unlimited 20% armor buff which completely powercreeps everyone else’s armor buffs
There’s also just no reason to make mage the master of all roles in pvp
Even in 71 with the meta being bear, just existing on bear doesn’t grant you free wins on good players unlike 115 where just having the class and no experience gives you free wins most of the time
Again pvp should be for all classes not just mage, that buff on heal needs to be removed along with crafted bonus

[Underpowerful]

Wolve is absolutely correct in their statements. Being a one trick does not detract from the truth of what's being said in this case. The mere existence of a mage in a 2v2 guarantees the win vs a team with no mages. This is clearly a symptom of the imbalance of the class. Mage is supposed to die quickly. They have the most survivability (strong buffs + heal + ms) and are not supposed to be the front line tank they currently are. As a crafted bird, I regularly empty my skill book on mages without killing them. Even vs wolve sometimes a full combo won't kill. Just depends on who had buffs and if debuffs get dodged or not.
Uncrafted mages (int or dex) have the same insane survivability.
Also - mages have almost the exact same dmg as birds. The only difference is birds have better ranged skills and superior debuffs.
In my opinion, Crafted is in a fine position. Many people use clean sets and are just as competitive.
The clear solution here is to significantly buff bear and rhino, slightly increase fox dmg (or tweak their skills %), and decrease mage armor.

[Imawolve]

Wolve is absolutely correct in their statements. Being a one trick does not detract from the truth of what's being said in this case. The mere existence of a mage in a 2v2 guarantees the win vs a team with no mages. This is clearly a symptom of the imbalance of the class. Mage is supposed to die quickly. They have the most survivability (strong buffs + heal + ms) and are not supposed to be the front line tank they currently are. As a crafted bird, I regularly empty my skill book on mages without killing them. Even vs wolve sometimes a full combo won't kill. Just depends on who had buffs and if debuffs get dodged or not.
Uncrafted mages (int or dex) have the same insane survivability.
Also - mages have almost the exact same dmg as birds. The only difference is birds have better ranged skills and superior debuffs.
In my opinion, Crafted is in a fine position. Many people use clean sets and are just as competitive.
The clear solution here is to significantly buff bear and rhino, slightly increase fox dmg (or tweak their skills %), and decrease mage armor.

I’ll agree here, still dislike crafted vs uncrafted and want some better way to even out the differences but adjustments towards mage are more important
Fox is mostly fine just unable to compensate it’s low range with its current damage unlike other levels but that’s why we used to have ops except that got nerfed indirectly unfortunately so either a buff to ops or fox damage and I can have more freedom during fights, but yes definitely need mage survivability lowered or damage lowered, I wouldn’t mind a tanky mage if they couldn’t 2-3 shot people and vice versa just not both tanky and dps at once would be an improvement, literally any of these changes would be greatly appreciated from the devs

[oreo123]

Nerfing mage heal would make it impossible to kill a GOOD bird/player and to say that uncrafted dex is tanky is insane…have you ever fought cold on mage uncrafted dex it’s impossible to win. I have to switch to uncrafted int to have a chance and that’s with me being sweaty asf. Now imagine all the noob/average mages using dex uncrafted against decent birds crafted and uncrafted and then fighting REALLY good ones. They don’t stand a chance. Play the actual game instead of one tricking then you’ll know. Notice how I said “GOOD” players.

[Imawolve]

Nerfing mage heal would make it impossible to kill a GOOD bird/player and to say that uncrafted dex is tanky is insane…have you ever fought cold on mage uncrafted dex it’s impossible to win. I have to switch to uncrafted int to have a chance and that’s with me being sweaty asf. Now imagine all the noob/average mages using dex uncrafted against decent birds crafted and uncrafted and then fighting REALLY good ones. They don’t stand a chance. Play the actual game instead of one tricking then you’ll know. Notice how I said “GOOD” players.

As stated before, bird should counter mage the same way bear counters fox, I don’t complain about my class counters, in return I ask you don’t complain about yours, 115 is not skill based so again as I said before skill is only in who doesn’t run into damage the most which has a very low ceiling, + L71 is always around if you want to check where you really stand in the skill bracket since you seem to be so keen on discrediting my own skill while having never played my class seriously, always down to run multiple rounds though when im on just let me know!

[Underpowerful]

Nerfing mage heal would make it impossible to kill a GOOD bird/player and to say that uncrafted dex is tanky is insane…have you ever fought cold on mage uncrafted dex it’s impossible to win. I have to switch to uncrafted int to have a chance and that’s with me being sweaty asf. Now imagine all the noob/average mages using dex uncrafted against decent birds crafted and uncrafted and then fighting REALLY good ones. They don’t stand a chance. Play the actual game instead of one tricking then you’ll know. Notice how I said “GOOD” players.

Cold hasn't played in 5+ years. If you can’t beat him as a mage right now, it is absolutely a skill issue on your part. As Wolve has said, you shouldn't be able to beat a bird 1v1 unless a significant skill gap is present. It's how the classes are designed to work.