Why Daggers do more damage than Bows ?
The best dagger give to an rogue 95 and bow only gives 60
Why Daggers do more damage than Bows ?
Why Daggers do more damage than Bows ?
The best dagger give to an rogue 95 and bow only gives 60
Maybe because you have range over dagger?
well this sucks becouse its not an choice if you have bow 60 and daggers at 95 of course people will pick daggers.
Daggers boost melee dps. Bows boost skill damage. Daggers hit faster. Bows hit slower. Daggers are good for clearing trash mobs. Bows are good for bossing.
I have a bow and rifle for my rogue and mage. Loving it.
could i ask how you got that info ?Originally Posted by sirtibby
pretty obvious really =)could i ask how you got that info ?
Credits to Iady
well its not obvious for me, could you explain how your bow boost skill while dagger boost melee dps ?
Also ranged weapons will be used alot if I'm not mistaken in PvP.
Bow increases the stat damage but since its slow, it has a lo dps.well its not obvious for me, could you explain how your bow boost skill while dagger boost melee dps ?
More damage = more skill damage, dont ask me why nobody knows
More dps = more damage with normal attacks.
Credits to Iady
Dude i gonna show to you the best weapons in the game for an rogue right now, i want you explain to me how an weapon/bow of 3 dexterity less and 35.7 DPS less could be better to skill damage... where you found this info ?
http://i.imgur.com/uc8Z4.jpg <----- click in this image
DPS stands for damage per second. You can have two weapons, one with high damage and one with medium damage, but if the medium damage weapon can attack a lot faster than the high damage weapon, then the faster weapon will have the highe DPS.
But your skills are boosted by the weapon's damage (as in the damage the weapon deals per attack). This means that if a bow has a higher per hit damage, it will boost your skill damage more than a pair of daggers that have a lower per hit damage, even if the DPS of the daggers is higher than the DPS of the bow.
Hopefully that makes sense... Sometimes I simply suck at explaining things.
Just think of it this way (gonna make up some BS numbers for the sake of simplicity):
A bow does 100 damage and shoots at a rate of 1 shot every 2 seconds. That breaks down to 50 DPS.
A set of daggers does 75 damage, but hits at a rate of 1 hit per second. That's 75 DPS.
Equipping the bow boosts you skills by 100, while the daggers only boost your skills by 75. So if you don't spend very much time using your auto attack, and use your skills like crazy, then the bow is the best choice. If you spend more time spamming your normal attack than you do using your skills, then the daggers are the better choice.
It's a crude simplification of how it works, but hopefully that helps you understand it all better.
Mike you did not answer my question.
The speed of both weapons are the same and this does not prove that the arc give more damage with skills than daggers.
I bet you guys dont even know what theorycraft means.
This is quite simple really... I'm mostly active in the warrior threads, but I am a big theory crafter. Skill damage is based on damage, not dps. Let's assume the following hypothetical figures...
Dagger - 150 damage, 1 second swing time
This means the weapon does 150 dps with auto attacks alone. It also boosts the damage of skills by it's 150 damage.
Bow - 200 damage, 2 second shot time
This means the weapon does 100 dps with auto attacks alone. It also boosts the damage of skills by it's 200 damage.
Now assuming a heavy skill rotation that uses more skills than auto attacks, the bow is clearly the winner. For an aimed shot where crit stacks high and does 250% more damage, the extra 50 damage (despite the lower dps) would result in the crit hitting for 125 more damage than the dagger would.
If your rotation is very skill heavy with short cooldown skills, chances are you don't have time for many auto attacks. (Say AS, NB, SP spam build). In that case, auto attack dps is irrelevant, since all your damage comes from skills.
If your build is primarily focused on auto attack, then going for high dps is what matters. This is why I personally use the Bane Knives of Potency, since they have the highest damage (not highest dps) of all weapons in the game.
How do you know they are the same speed? You posted a pic of weapons that shows only their summary, so if that's all you're going off, you will definitely be confused. Open up the info on those items and see how much they do per hit.
Every weapon type should have advantages and disadvantages. In this case, the bow's advantage is the range (i.e. you can stay far away from the bad guys, meaning you don't get hit as often). The disadvantage of the bow is it doesn't hit as hard. And for the dagger, it is the opposite...it hits hard, but you must stay close meaning you are subject to get hit more often.
Mike lets do something if i prove that you is wrong you give me 500k and if you prove that im wrong i give you 500k, lets put our theorycraft here, do you know how to make one right ?
It's simple and I don't see what you aren't getting about their explanation.
On your stat screen there are 2 stats
Dmg = the modifier for your skills
Dps = dmg done by only your weapon (auto attack) per second
Now take lvl21 agile life thief of potency vs zero effect of brutality
The difference (relevant stats) on your stat screen for taking the bow over the daggers is -1 dex, -85.2 dps and +3.1 dmg.
The effect this has on a skill such as aim shot is (with life thief 261-326) and (with zero effect 366 - 333) these are my current numbers.
What does this mean?
If you use auto attack you will lose out over all damage dealt. If you use abilities only ( which with nox, as and sss you can) you will have an increase in overall damage dealt.
You are making the mistake of assuming that your dps rating is relative to all damage output... that is simply incorrect... unless all you do is auto attack.
I still haven't used a bow legitimately (played around when they first came out) but right now, if you use abilities exclusively, they are a viable replacement to daggers, but I personally am sticking with daggers for the time being.
Hope this clarifies things.
But if you need to see it for yourself, with an item equipped, look at your skills and write down their values (damage/healing done) and then change weapons and then compare.
Lol, I wish I was rich enough to throw down 500k bets. Keep your gold, I'm not the wagering type. I will explain it one last time for you, though.
I'm really not sure what you're not understanding here. It's not that terribly complicated. Weapons deal a certain amount of damage per hit. They also have an attack speed. These two factors determine the weapon's damage per second (DPS).
Here's some really easy numbers for you to understand:
Weapon #1 deals 1 damage every time it hits. It can attack three times per second, meaning it does 3 DPS.
Weapon #2 deals 2 damage every time it hits. It can only attack one time per second, meaning it does 2 DPS.
Weapon #1 does less damage per hit, but has a higher DPS because it attacks faster. Conversely, weapon #2 deals more damage per hit but has a lower DPS because it attacks more slowly. You with me so far?
Skills deal a certain amount of damage, as well. They also have cooldowns. These two factors determine their DPS, which can be quite different from the DPS of the weapon being used by the skill.
Consider this rudimentary skill:
Skill #1 deals base weapon damage plus 5 each time you use it. This skill has a 2 second cooldown.
Using skill #1 while having weapon #1 equipped means you'll be dealing 6 damage each time you use the skill.
Using skill #1 while having weapon #2 equipped means you'll be dealing 7 damage each time you use the skill.
The skill deals more damage when using the slower weapon (#2). Still with me?
Since skill #1 has a 2 second cooldown, that means it deals 3 DPS using weapon #1. When using weapon #2 the skill does 3.5 DPS.
Now you can clearly see and understand how a slower weapon can actually yield a higher DPS through skills over a faster weapon. This is because skills do not rely on, or factor in, a weapon's speed. Only the weapon's base damage per hit is used by the skill. So if you are spamming skills, you want to stick with the weapon that has the highest base damage per hit. The weapon's own DPS is only important if you plan to do a lot of normal attack spamming, rather than skill spamming.
Hopefully this clears it all up for you.
Bonus:
Also, one more thing you need to consider with your comparison of the weapons you posted a pic of: Agile Heartseekers and Agile Lifethief are ELITE legendaries, while the polar bow is simply legendary. Of course a level 20 legendary will look weak compared to level 21 elite legendaries. Wait until we start seeing elite bows (hopefully next update) and you'll be able to make more accurate and even comparisons.
Last edited by Wizard_Mike; 01-05-2013 at 07:40 AM.
Another thing to consider is that you're comparing plat pack bows to elite legendary daggers. You should really be comparing the bow to the steel commando blades. I believe when they add actual dropped bows to the game, they will be far more comparable to the best daggers.
But even a plat bow it's marginally comparable assuming that the player uses abilities exclusively... but now to have be thinking, so I'll check out the comparison, out of curiosity.
After comparing to a similar (item level) a bow is very much competitive... once there are elite.legendary bows, I think there will be a lot more "rangers" running around.
Last edited by grunt226; 01-06-2013 at 02:14 AM.
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