I think is bad because not based for all lvls, meOriginally Posted by asommers
Have some op sets at lvl 10/ and also 61 but can’t kill boss.. How its possible.
Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk
I think is bad because not based for all lvls, me
Have some op sets at lvl 10/ and also 61 but can’t kill boss.. How its possible.
Inviato dal mio iPhone utilizzando Tapatalk
No tidal wisp
hard drop cinco assomer help no drop wings
Arcane Legends is a vertical progression game. If an event is designed around combat, gear, and character power, then a level 10 character should not be able to outperform a level 91 character simply by choosing to remain low level and optimizing a twink build.
That doesn't mean low level players shouldn't be allowed to participate. Those are two completely different things. The developer literally said most events allow entry from all levels.
Participation does not equal competitive power.
A level 10 player can participate, contribute, earn rewards and enjoy the event, while the level 91 player still has the advantage that comes from progressing their character. That's exactly what you would expect from a vertical progression system.
If a level 10 can legitimately outscore a level 91 in an event where combat and equipment are supposed to matter, then the issue isn't whether the level 10 “cheated.” The issue is that the event is allowing a lower level to bypass the power progression the game is built around.
You're free to disagree with that design philosophy, but I don't think the developer's position is unclear. He already answered the question: yes, he is saying low level characters should not be able to outcompete max level characters in those events, because that's not what the game's vertical progression is intended to allow.
Few years ago, there was a mage, Megatron ( i think he has a youtube channel ) , who intentionally stayed at level 1 because he could one shot event mobs and compete on the leaderboard. That's exactly the kind of situation Cinco is trying to prevent. It isn't about whether the player is exploiting or playing “illegitimately”, it's about a low level character gaining a competitive advantage over endgame characters in an event where combat and gears is supposed to matter.
I know that was years ago, but still some info.
That "Gear and combat" you said its just proc all and run killing mobs without using any skill and without killing boss on Event. Right?
So, what they really ought to do is stop releasing gear for twinks. Right? Why do they keep putting out gear that new players can't get and that's aimed specifically at us twinks? A lot of existing gear is more expensive than actual level 91 gear.
91s designed for the game's endgame content—such as gold farming, timed Leaderboard runs, or events dedicated exclusively to Level 91, like Temple or Stronghold. That’s why they added "Elite mode" to the leaderboards so low/mid-levels players couldn't compete. Why didn't they add that mode for all levels? That way, low and mid levels players would be forced to gear up and spend money just like endgame players, without losing the chance to compete.
Supposedly, most events are designed for everyone to participate and compete, but that isn't the case right now; furthermore as is the case with this current event the difficulty of "Normal Mode" has been raised to a level that not all low or mid-level players can complete even some lv91 with bad gear are struggling hard.
So, what should be done?
Fix the Normal Mode?
Adding Elite Mode for all Players?
Two Different Lbs for Normal and Elite?
Delete completely the Twinks Community?
< Ygeia >
I think you've misunderstood the point I was making. I'm not arguing that twinks shouldn't exist, shouldn't have gear, shouldn't participate in events, or that the entire event system needs to be redesigned. I'm specifically talking about the principle Cinco stated: in a vertical progression game, a low level character shouldn't be able to outperform a max level character in an event where combat and gear are the primary factors.
Everything else you've brought up like normal mode difficulty, elite mode, separate leaderboards, twink gear availability, etc. Those may be worth discussing separately, but none of it addresses that specific argument.
I'm also not claiming to have a solution for every problem in a 14 year old MMO. I'm simply explaining why I agree with the developer's reasoning on this particular issue.
Why not? A Twink having the best in slot in gear at that level why is he not able to compete with others ON EVENTS, we cant outperform on gl farming, doing lb timeds but Events should be different. On other games Events are for everyone doesnt matter lvl if you have the best gear, ofc being endgame should have an advantage but they DONT delete the chance for a others levels to compete against them.
Rn they deleted that chance there is no way possible to compete.
I think we're getting too hung up on the actual level number here. The real difference is the gear and the power of the procs available at each stage of progression. I do agree that some events can be designed differently and give lower level players more opportunities to compete, but I don't think combat focused events that rely heavily on character gear and power should be completely progression neutral.
A level 91 isn't necessarily stronger simply because the character has a higher number next to their name. Higher level progression gives access to gear with increasingly powerful stats and, more importantly, increasingly powerful procs. In the current PvE/event meta, those procs can have a much bigger impact on clear speed and overall effectiveness than the raw stats themselves.
So when I say a low level character shouldn't be expected to compete on the same level as endgame, I'm not saying “level 91 good, level 10 bad.” I'm saying that if the game intentionally places its strongest combat mechanics and procs at higher levels, then those higher levels should have a meaningful competitive advantage in combat focused events.
And yes, technically the developers could create equally powerful proc weapons for twinks. But that's precisely the design decision we're discussing. They haven't chosen to make low level gear an alternative source of endgame level proc power. In fact, Cinco has explicitly said they're fixing situations where being lower level becomes an advantage.
If the developers wanted events to be completely progression neutral, they could have designed them that way through scaling, normalization, level brackets, equivalent procs, etc. But after 14 years, the direction they've consistently taken seems pretty clear?
I agree with you and currently low level are not technically blocked entering the portal. They can enter the portal and play there is no restriction on that. If you have super op Twink that clear elite then go for it no one is stopping you.
The main issue I see is even the normal map is not scaled properly and it hard for low level people. May be is designed that way to avoid someone crushing LB with normal map, but I still feel that normal maps should be easy for all level and people should be allowed to play with normal gear. This event is also good for making some gold with those cooler chest to everyone should get opportunity to make some gold.
The best thing I like in this event those cooler chests with some goodies for event token. They should bring more of those crates to other events.
Thats not the real problem.
Endgame players alr have a big advantage like you said on gear/procs/power clearing zones compared to Twinks rn.
The Real problem is they DELETED completely the chance to compete on Lbs by Adding Elite we CANT play Elite Mode because is based on lv91 instead of all Levels. Difference on pts its to Big that is impossible to catch up doing normal runs spending even more time than they do on lb.
If we cant compete on same level as lv91 should be decided by playing on same Zones not by restricting us to play and not even having the chances to try.
They just DELETE the chances to compete on Lb.
I have won few Lbs as a Twink spending the same time as lv91 (or even more) spending on gear and finding a way to compete on that lb myself, but that because i have the chance of it. Ofc i have lost some lbs too because endgame like we said had better gear/proc/ms thats OK but atleast i tried.
Now i cant even try thats the problem.
< Ygeia >
I don’t think we’re actually disagreeing about participation. We already know most events allow low levels in. The disagreement is whether a low level being able to outperform a level 91 is automatically something that needs to be prevented.
You say that because AL is a vertical progression game, a level 10 shouldn’t be able to outperform a level 91. But that’s a design philosophy, not an objective rule of what an LB has to be.
If a level 10 player deliberately chooses that playstyle, invests into their character and legitimately gets more points, I don’t see why their score should be considered invalid simply because their character is lower level.
And I don’t think that “bypasses progression” either. They’re not getting level 91 maps, level 91 gear or the other things that come with progressing. They’re choosing to give those things up in exchange for playing at a lower level.
That’s the tradeoff of staying low level.
The Megatron example actually demonstrates why this is a legitimate playstyle. He found a way to make a level 1 character extremely effective for a particular event. You may think that shouldn’t be possible, but that doesn’t automatically make the player’s achievement meaningless.
I understand that Cinco has made the intended direction clear now, and I respect that. I just don’t agree that “vertical progression” by itself proves that low levels should never be able to compete for an LB.
If the game allows different ways to build and play, I think the LB should be open to seeing what players can actually accomplish with those choices.
“You say that because AL is a vertical progression game, a level 10 shouldn't be able to outperform a level 91.”
Yes. Exactly. Because AL is a vertical progression game. That's not some random rule I'm imposing on the game; that's the progression model the developers chose.
Look at games like FFXIV, WoW, Diablo Immortal, etc. The exact systems differ, but the basic idea of vertical progression is that progressing further gives your character access to greater power and capabilities. That's fundamentally different from a system where player skill or build choice is supposed to completely neutralize the progression gap.
“But that's a design philosophy, not an objective rule for what an LB has to be.”
Correct. There is no universal law saying every vertical progression game must structure its leaderboards this way. But that's not really the argument. Cinco has explicitly told us what Arcane Legends' design philosophy is. The developers are choosing to make progression matter in combat focused content, and they're specifically fixing situations where being low level becomes an advantage.
“If a level 10 deliberately chooses that playstyle, invests into their character and legitimately gets more points, why should their score be considered invalid?”
If the score was legitimately obtained under the rules, I don't think anyone is saying the player personally cheated or that their achievement is somehow meaningless. The question is whether the game should continue allowing that level of competitive advantage to exist in the first place.
And that's especially relevant when the difference comes from the game's scaling or gear/proc interactions rather than some extraordinary mechanical skill. Arcane Legends isn't League of Legends where a smurf account can compete at post Master tier through extremely demanding mechanics. A lot of PvE efficiency comes down to loadouts, gear, proc timing, swapping, routing and repeating the most effective rotation.
If a low level character can exploit the way scaling/procs interact and clear an event substantially more efficiently than an endgame character, I don't think “the player legitimately discovered the strongest interaction” automatically means the game should preserve that interaction as a competitive advantage.
“They are choosing to give up level 91 maps and gear in exchange for playing at a lower level. That's the tradeoff.”
I agree that it's a tradeoff. But you're assuming that the tradeoff has to be “I give up endgame progression, but I retain the ability to compete with endgame characters on event LBs.”
Why?
Choosing to remain low level can also mean choosing to give up some of the competitive power that comes from progressing through the game's vertical progression. If you're deliberately opting out of that progression because you prefer twinking, that's completely fine. But I don't think the game is obligated to preserve every competitive opportunity that endgame progression provides.
And the Megatron example is where I really disagree.
Megatron was genuinely able to one shot event mobs and even bosses while the max level at the time was 86, whereas the actual endgame players had to DPS those same mobs and bosses down normally. I don't see that as evidence that the leaderboard should remain open to that interaction. I see it as an example of exactly the kind of low level advantage Cinco is talking about.
The fact that a player legitimately discovered a way to do it doesn't automatically mean the game should consider that outcome desirable. A legitimate strategy can still be something the developers decide to remove or prevent.
And finally, I understand your last point:
“If the game allows different ways to build and play, the LB should be open to seeing what players can accomplish.”
That's where I think we can simply agree to disagree. I don't think every legitimate playstyle needs to remain competitively viable in every type of content. You want event LBs to be a progression neutral space where a sufficiently optimized twink can still challenge endgame players. Okay I respect that.
Ultimately, the developers decide what Arcane Legends' progression system is supposed to reward. You can disagree with that direction, but I don't think the existence of a different possible design means their current design is contradictory or unfair by default.
AI battles on the forum.
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High Society Guild Officer- Granny Trifecta 4 LYFE!
should low lev be able to play events? yeah
can sts monetize low level the same way they can endgame? no way-
boe, awakening new gear, needing to chase BISs, needing to level up for best stats-
oh you had best gear? here’s all new better end game set
want some elite content? it requires limited time item for plat originally
yes they could do the same in low lev, but you can see a ton of arc/set end game gear but few low lev,
you can see where sts value their time
be smart, have fun however
tldr- $
\m/____( >. < ‘ )____,\m/SuentousChivalrous Union
Lower levels should not be able to compete with endgame event lb. A good suggestion is to give lower level less points just like scaling. Will probably need to lower tier point requirements to accommodate the lower point gain from events.
This seems doable, the lower u are the less points u get
I don’t think reducing points based on level is a good solution at all.
If a level 10 can participate in the same event, then let their actual performance determine their LB position. Why should the game deliberately reduce their points just because they chose to stay low level?
That basically turns “everyone can compete” into “everyone can enter, but low levels are handicapped.” That’s not really equal competition.
As I’ve said multiple times, Endgame already has its advantages through gear, maps, progression and farming. There is no need to artificially reduce a low level player’s score on top of that.
If the event is balanced correctly, let the leaderboard decide who performed best. That’s literally what an LB is for.
This is great so
A little back story
I own a end game were I have run lbs and a level 1 were I have run lbs
My end game gear pricing cost me a few billion with awakes and so on
My level 1 I have spent over 45 billion on awakes making the perfect level one
My end game out performs my lvl 1 because of speed gears + gold loot so the overall benefits are by far end game orientational however it's boring as hell omg I can't stand it anymore XD reason I often play on my lvl one to keep the game alive for me as end game is just too boring and I sit around most days trying to sell stuff in a dead market in a dying game I do try to find ways to entertain myself And keep busy and have my own ways of fun tbh I love that there making it clear now to lesson the opatunites of players because then rather than dragging it on and giving them false hope might aswell make everyone pay for it before everything dies
Make everything cost real money remove all the free to play players focus on the wales and get that money before the players who spend money realized they can't sell anything anymore because all the free to play players have left the game so no farming or flow is going on XD it's reason the markets so dead
Ye I could farm gold but why bother
Takes too much time and I work and have a life if I have hundreds of billions in items I'd prefer being lazy selling them in towns than doing the same farming same map dune over and over and over and over it's more tedious than lb at least with lbs the prizes and environment changes and are different but nowerdays that's even bad it's always going to be the unemployed people who have enough time on there hands I mean I had 2 weeks off work and I spent the entire time farming each day on game and about 3 hours sleep power naps so I must say if that's the hell I went through and I see the same names on lb every lb back to back has me questioning how are they alive only answer I could think of is using same accounts or botting Ye I'm calling you all out cuz we all know it's true might have the best gear XD but that's easy to get but I guess that's allowed by sts I dunno if those rules changed or not would like to know I think just getting on lb is impressive in itself dousent matter what lvl as at end game if you are super op costs u left than twink in price and you will be way way faster the people who are complaining are probably the ones who are threatened by it but in the long term it just removed the inclusivity for the majority of the game and just increasing that boredom unfortunately as a player who has tried most options from twinks to end game to aps to investing into the game to say it's sad is to say the least but the game definitely usto be fun in the golden days reason why I would love for there to be 2 separate games one new one old one what is for the all inclusive game play for players and to be able to take part all parts and enjoy the game how they want and a separate game were it's pay to play and they have to follow the set direction dictated to them down the route you desire as creators to follow
Honestly I'm bored of aps I did a hell of a bunch on my end game and my lvl 1 XD before you rolled everything back I was almost at 50k aps on my lvl1 thanks for that but it is what it is and yes cost gold and investment into the game to go no were as it usually is with a game you play for fun if it stops being fun simple answers don't expect the game to change for the consumer just find a better game what is targeted for the consumer it is so simple there's no point complaining about this and that in this game because the bare minimum will either be done to shut you up or nothing will be done cuz no one cares I understand that lvl and so on of not being included in events is a hard pill to swallow but that's the choice the games going down XD but I have read all your posts it's been the most fun in game I had in a while XD I don't know much about the game I'm only a consumer who's played for near enough 13 years
13yrs here too never happen something like this, Twinks existed yrs ago its nothing new we competed on lb all this past yrs no one complained and since this last 2yrs ago, changes came to restrict more and more players sadly. If thats the direction is going maybe is time to just.....
< Ygeia >
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