Omg u are dumb as a rock. Try it urself. Build a dex mage. Stop dictating what mages need to do coz you dont know anything of the class. Hey y dont u build an int based rogue for mana, mages have it, why not rogues?Originally Posted by nicoB
Omg u are dumb as a rock. Try it urself. Build a dex mage. Stop dictating what mages need to do coz you dont know anything of the class. Hey y dont u build an int based rogue for mana, mages have it, why not rogues?
Because none of games I ever played for the last 15 years has a sorcerer who has dodge rate as high as a rogue's, it just doesn't make sense. Mage should have a high damage + effects, that's also what Dev team intended to do in this game, I believe, however it's quite hard for them because a little more dame+effect can make mages invincible, while a little less dame+effect can make them become insects (like at the moment). They need time to test and balance it.
And please, please give us a separated skill build when we join arena, it's also for further kinds of PvP, skills needed for PvP and PvE are so different. My rogue can play well with her PvE skill, because she always just focus on 1 target anyway. But my Warrior and mage can't use the same PvE build for PvP, that makes them weak in PvP.
Last edited by Xman; 01-21-2013 at 03:44 PM.
I would be nice if u could use 1 health and mana potion per time alive. So after you use each one once they would disable or disappear and on death and revival your potions would enable/become visible again
Omg don't, that makes rogue and Warrior even more invincible since their only weakness is mana. And a pot of hp won't help your mage survive much longer.
lol chill out man, I'm talking about gining dodge for INT on top of a base a base amount of dodge when starting off. why so defensive?
The rogues power is OK. It can stay as is. It's just Mage is UNDER powered. They can't deal proper dmg because after shield and heal to deal with the low survivability, there r only two dmg skills left, so it's the most difficult class to use; and the difficulty of use is not rewarded.
Warrior is the class with too much. It is not possible for top spec Mage to kill top spec warrior 1v1, unless the human behind the warrior plays very poorly. It is especially difficult if a team has many warriors. They enjoy their high hp and just BUFF, HEAL, and HIGHFIVE eachother as they trample over you.
Some ppl say Mage can kill warrior easily 1v1, but that's only possible if warrior have crappy gear, and Mage has excellent. Every warrior and Mage worth a dime knows this.
I speak of endgame level. Don't know about twink.
Last edited by Patricks; 01-21-2013 at 04:38 PM.
If u would mind my words and stop exaggerating what i've said, u would c that all my percentage evaluations r accurate. First off i never said i go around willy-nilly killing all the warriors i want, my scenario is a 1v1 fight with full mana and health against a warrior/rogue. For a warrior when i say "easily" i mean if i wanted to kill a warrior it would not be a hard thing to do (in my scenario) and would b nothing i would brag about, yet one time or another yes i might die (mostly to the lack of me using my skills properly). For a rogue (still in my scenario) its 50/50, basically whoever gets the first shot. now in a group of 2 or more i have killed them as well but my guess is they had low health or mana, but mostly yes i will die without even one kill in a group fight (so i just don't fight a group, unless there's no other choice). now when i'm with a group of 2 or more, i'm practically unstoppable, unless i'm the target. now moving on to ur prized "top" players that i've "offended", i never even came close to calling les ignorant, that's ur words not mine, and for patrick, i do believe that he really killed 1 mil, he just uses hack to get unlimited dmg for a one shot kill, and this fact comes from his fellow guild mates that i would find to be a reliable source wouldn't u? And ultimately i don't give a flip what either think, because if they know so much about pvp why aren't they on top of the ctf leader board? And if u want to pvp with me my ign is Erdnase (duh) just keep in mind my evaluations r for the perfect scenario and depends on my team and the opposing team (for example, if the opposing team stays together the whole game and mine is just scattered out, i don't stand a chance) and there's a very good chance i could end up on the bad side of my 50/50 percentage. (btw ill expect my 10$ whenever we meet)
NOTE: this is in response to Tribalware
Last edited by Erdnase; 01-21-2013 at 04:55 PM.
Why would you want to pvp me? I'll just use my "one hit hack" to kill you. What horse poop. LOL.
Last edited by Patricks; 01-21-2013 at 04:52 PM.
CTF needs an auto balance system to limit the number of each class that can be on one team. because theres teams of 5 you never wil have more than 2 members of one calss. Idk about you but i hate being on the team that has to go against a group 4-5 warriors. it seems like all the warriors know each other or something
I really don't get why people say we're under powered, it just depends on the mage u meet and the scenario they're in. some are new to pvp and don't know what skills to use, we aren't that weak little good for nothing class everyone keeps talking of (and i've got players in my guild that can back me up). PLEASE, don't think i don't won't any changes, but we all need tweaking done to our skills.
AND PLEASE, i would like everyone to please leave sensible post from now on and think fairly. with all the mixed opinions people are giving it basically makes this thread useless.
Ive played you a few times before. your a good mage. My ign is chesher
ty chesher, i remember u
I've been thinking about this for a couple of days now. The more I play the more I do realize that something is surely wrong. I don't need to respec, I have a very good spec layout with stats and skills. One skill (i.e. shield) should not be required for any class to play effectively. The reason we have 8 to choose from is so that not all mages (or any other class) are the same.
I'm very much a numbers person, and usually analyze and figure out stuff like this based on the numbers. Something that always bothered me was how the stats are figured in AL. There are 5 main stats in AL: Health Points, Mana Points, Crit, Dodge, Damage
Damage is determined by the main stat for each class, so nobody has a big advantage with damage, unless we are talking about differences in gear between classes, and that is for another discussion.
STR determines health for the most part. Yes small amounts of health are obtained from DEX & INT, but most health comes from STR.
INT determines mana
But DEX determines both Crit and Dodge. Here is where the imbalance is. Going full DEX gives for a rogue gives them max damage, crit, dodge, and even some health. The only thing they lack is mana, which is why we hear complaints that rogues run out of mana too fast. But other than that, rogues can be pure DEX and have just about everything.
On the other hand, a mage that goes full INT will only have max damage & mana, and some health, but will be lacking both dodge and crit.
The fact that DEX determines the value of two major stats while STR & INT each only determine the value of one major stat is an issue here. This occurred to me before PvP was introduced, but now it seems to be showing itself on the battlefield.
When the Dead City expansion was introduced, a stat change was also introduced with regard to health points. It made it so that DEX & INT also gave health points, but fewer than STR does. Maybe a similar change needs to be made with regard to Crit or Dodge. Since logic would tell you that dodge is mostly determined by dexterity, I would suggest that maybe crit should be boosted by INT points, just less than it is boosted from DEX. I think that may even things out a bit without making adjustments to skills.
This would allow mages to gain a decent amount of crit (which would help their attacks), and would allow rogues to spec some INT to increase their mana. I think warriors are just fine as is, as I don't see many complaining about anything at all.
Last edited by Energizeric; 01-21-2013 at 05:06 PM.
I like this
I play a full equipt Warrior and i have no Chance against an Rogue with active Razor Shield... I think the damage from the shield is too high. Rogue is the only Class which can have over 90% critrate and can crit with what? 2k damage or more? I cant believe here gives people who said Rogue is not overpowered....
I know Rogue needs Damage Power, but in all Ranges? If u run away he blowes u off with aimed...if u go to him and try to beat him, he starts Razor Shield and u have exactly the 2 sec. from Warri Shield and then u are dead.
I tried a few Games with my full equipt Sorc. too. If no one see u and u can beat them from behind u have a little chance to get a kill... I only can say the Sorc complete the Picture.. We are only food for the Rogues to push their stats..
The easiest way to make the Game fair again...patch out the Warriors and Sorcs and we all play Rogues.
P.S. Sry for my bad English
Ice Mage can't freeze people... ARE YOU KIDDING ME!
The game's most CC spec can't CC but you left knockback to Warriors.
It's a glitch it must be it?
Sensible dialogue, (I'm not sure why a couple of people keep trying to invalidate the usefulness of this thread at all, seems to me there's a lot of really good points being made). As patrick (who is most likely not at the top of the CTF kills leaderboard because he plays a mage... Erdnase) has pointed out the main problem doesn't even have to be rogues being OP, it's more about the skills than the stats and our skills took a serious nerfing for PvP to the point where you're left with skill points hanging around spare after a lvl 21 build becuase the majority of skill perks are ineffective (see ALL the frost skills for example).
We're forced to spec for shield which is something we shouldn't really have to do, it should be an option for those looking to last a little longer but not a straight up necessity, but it's cool we'll bite that bullet, but as patrick points out we are then forced to spec for heal too. So think about it, as a damage dealing class (see page 7, previous posts, etc etc. we are NOT a support class) we've spent 2 of our 4 skills just on spells that help us survive more than a few seconds that don't even really benefit anyone else, leaving us severely reduced in our capacity to sling proper spells.
I tried the above build for a while but got sick and tired of lacking that extra damage spell, so now I'm back to fire, lightning, frost (which is in a shameful state (ADD A SLOW, IT'S A FREAKING ICE SPELL), and shield. Sod the health I don't make it out alive all that much anyway and besides a warrior does a better job of patching me up than I could. So I'm running around the map, trying to stay at the back of the lines, charging fireball hurling uncharged lightning and frost and then charging fireball again. At 276 dps I should be a slaughterhouse, I'm not. Some sensible ideas I've heard so far that don't involve fundamental changes to stats:
- Allow us our brief period of invulnerability on an uncharged shield, at the pace rogues work at we're just not left with the time to position those 2 seconds effectively when the shield has to be charged.
- Frost: Just... I mean come on guys for the love of christ make it do something. I'm reduced to using it but bitterly, only chance I have at outlasting a rogue (and up against a decent rogue it doesn't happen often) is to put them down with a charged fireball, power up an uncharged shield and then lay uncharged lightning and frost into them before they recover from the stun. But this is NOT enough to kill a rogue who is my equal, so I have to pray they are out of mana or feeling a little lazy so i can wait for my lightning to cooldown. That last lightning usually does it.
- Clock: Yeah I messed around with clock too, to be honest its useless considering how long fights last and that you have to be at the centre of all the chaos to drop it properly. But considering how hard it is to use effectively it could do a bit more damage/have a better slow effect/cause damage over time without having been charged first. Something, anything to make it a viable skill. As it stands I throw it into the 'completely redundant' pile alongside curse, gale and frost.
Whereas once again warriors... You guys DO need a nerf, I agree with patrick in that rogues need not necessarily be OP, I'd like to see their range reduced with bows but still when it comes to rogue vs. mage it feels more like we're underpowered rather than them being overpowered. Warriors on the other hand, you guys are just tripping out hard...
Putting aside your core stats for a moment, the fact that you have too much hp and do too much damage:
- Sky smash: it's a closing move, incredibly powerful as it is allowing you to effectively teleport to within range of a sorc AND deal damage. (and keeping our distance is quite literally our most powerful weapon at the moment). so why on gods green earth does it also deliver an incredibly effective stun.
- HP buff: Others have already put it better than me, but does it seem at all right that warriors get better support skills than the support class does? Perhaps we'd be more useful in PvP if warriors needed us to heal their HP and rogues needed us to replenish their mana, i'd love to fill a support role in that capacity. But as it stands warriors don't need us for anything.
- Bow range... with SWORDS: So you can outrange me now too you say? well that makes about as much sense as the class with an insane HP advantage also having an insane heal skill.
Our sorc skills need an overhaul, half of them are redundant inherently (see curse, clock) and the other half you guys at sts went and gutted pre PvP. That's right, to anyone blowing their horn about mages this and mages that, we actually took a nerf specifically for PvP. I'm not saying I expect to see a patch that leads to mages appearing on the leaderboards. Rogues are assassins, you guys were always going to be the best at collecting kills, but theres something very very wrong with it all at the moment and it kinda sucks the fun out of playing from time to time.
I have specced, geared and strategised my balls off, and will curse the next person to say 'you guys aren't underpowered, you're just bad players'. I wouldnt worry though, curse doesn't work worth sh*t anyhow
WIN!? How could you possibly hope to win? You're not fighting a belief you're fighting a psychological imbalance.
I think they need to make it so that only str gives health, Dex gives dodge and critical, and int gives mana. Basically the old stat system is better IMO. Now anyone can just guzzle all into one stat and get the best of all three (rogues at the highest)
Visit the SL Lore thread for more knowledge on the history behind SL! (Click me!)
Visit the official Infinite Union Website to join the tribe, hang out, or chat in the forums!
No dude, nonsense posts like this make this thread useless. Uselessly full of clutter anyway.
1) Of course it depends on the mage and the scenario, say for instance the mage is maxed out with full hp and the rogue you bump into isn't maxed out with some hp missing. That might determine the outcome right? That's a wildly intelligent observation of you to make, and when I say intelligent what I mean is completely pointless. We're talking about comparable characters in the same state from different classes vs. one another. And when the playing field is equal we get dicked (because it's not an equal playing field).
2) Stop, I repeat STOP saying things like 'some are new to pvp and don't know what skills to use', that is not an explanation for anything, the mages giving their opinions here are top players and we have used EVERY skill to try and get a leg up. Sure mages who are poorly specced will get trampled, those of us properly specced are getting trampled too.
I'm adding you in game, we'll have a look see just how well you do for someone who's obviously so content. I'm still looking forward to watching you take down a warrior with ease. *Chuckles loudly and sarcastically as he high fives his cynical imaginary friends".
... Did I just write that? I need to lay off on this game
Last edited by Tribalware; 01-21-2013 at 08:02 PM.
WIN!? How could you possibly hope to win? You're not fighting a belief you're fighting a psychological imbalance.
I've read all the posts and it seems to me some of you guys are pvping at different levels.
I'm pvping at end game gear. Lvl 21 full demonlord security and best possible weapons and jewelry. All maxed for Int/str/dmg.
I also wear vanity gear to hide my strength. Others probably do the same. So don't confuse weak mages owning.
Im currently specced shield fire light and gale.
Against an equally geared warrior specced correctly. He can run into my base and back despite me unloading everything into him at the door and all the way to his base.
I need stuns/knockback? I have 5!
Charged fireball
lightning
Gale
Charged shield right next to him
Charged normal attack
And they don't even work all the time.
Warrior cool downs are too short. I'm just lucky he wasn't spamming normal attack or I would get clipped and die. I guess he just wanted the company for the trip home.
I have a level 21 fully geared warrior as well. So I know what I'm talking about. Because I have done it. Forget the group imma run laps and flag.
Dps warriors. That's what a Mage should be. Aoe stuns, group heal with shield, speed boosts and bonuses for everyone wow!! Mana heal?! Wtf.
Warriors should be on a rage system. IMHO. Do min damage to get power for stronger skills. Or longer cool downs for their attacks. They wave those big swords like they were cardboard rolls.
How about rogues? I get one shotted by them. How is that fun?
Where's the skill when the deciding factor is if I shield in time or not?
Also only form of crowd control right now that are worthwhile for mages are knock downs. Slow is easily overidden with staple skills of both warriors and rogues.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks