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  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: Official PvP Feedback Thread: Class Balance

  1. #301
    Junior Member Tribalware's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vystirch View Post
    Well first of your should no that I pretty much have the top pvpers of the classes in my guild. At least I think so. Ill give you just one name: applejaqs is one of them. He and I can solo another tank.
    No one's disputing that, I've PvP'd with applejaq he's a rogue. But what you said was 'Warriors can be 1v1ed by mages', and now you're backing that up by saying that the top ranking ctf kills player can solo a warrior? Well obviously that's true.
    WIN!? How could you possibly hope to win? You're not fighting a belief you're fighting a psychological imbalance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tribalware View Post
    No one's disputing that, I've PvP'd with applejaq he's a rogue. But what you said was 'Warriors can be 1v1ed by mages', and now you're backing that up by saying that the top ranking ctf kills player can solo a warrior? Well obviously that's true.
    Yes, pm my top two mages, melodicdeath, and drgrimmy. They don't win every time but they do win 50-50.

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    Forum Adept Erdnase's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vystirch View Post
    Me also, that's why I offered my ign
    I sent a request

  4. #304
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syylent View Post
    I play Rogue, Warrior and Mage just like many. people. The funny thing is most, say 90%, of my one shot kills come against other Rogues. If I can catch a mage off guard and get a lucky crit most likely they are dead. If they throw up the shield thingy, it is a toss up. Usually I just sit there stunned until I die. I was in a map last night where almost everyone on my side left. a mage 2 tanks and a rogue where running together. Mage stuns everyone.. warriors windmill everyone.. I did get to meet another mage solo a few times at the end. Short story... I made a new friend. Our fights usually ended with me killing him (never one shot him) then a few seconds I would die from his dot. The first time it happened my wife looked at me like I was crazy as I was laughing hysterically.

    Warriors are fun. A good warrior and I am dead unless I get lucky crits. Usually I get stunned, then hit them a few times and die. If I try to run away I still die because they seem to be able to swing their weapon from across the map. These things are beasts. They can be a fun fight. HOR and VB are incredible skills couple that with smash and windmill and it is pure pain.

    All and all it seems pretty even. My only complaint is the danged pets. Either allow them or not, I don't really care which just make a decision. It hard to justify any changes to class balance until everyone is on an even playfield. A person with Malison vs a person without? ha.. Although I do like killing them, usually I am one shot though.

    Only played the mage a couple times so am not sure on the playability in pvp. I just know that the good ones I come up against are really good.

    21,21,18 are the toons levels. They aren't maxed gear.. I am poor.

    I played another game a long time ago. This reminds me of that. Basically a mage type was one shotted by a rogue type. Needless to say the devs nerfed the crap out of the rogue type classes. Afterward it was realized the mage type was sitting down (greatly increased damage) and was 20+ level lower than the rogue type. Funny stuff. Fix the glitches and glits.. stop the cheating and minor tweaks here and there to classes and all looks good here. It sucks to be stunned. I've always hated be stunlocked or mezzlocked... but that's the way it is.
    Lol this is so true!!! i agree 100%! this is one of the most true statements in this thread

  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsies View Post
    It's actually a "one"-hit combo. Just for those not. playing rogues. So more then the aimed shot is involved mostly.
    This is also true

  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cashews View Post
    I mainly play as a rogue. My char is maxed. minus a couple points. While my charged aim shot can hit 2400+ damage with no buffs it very rarely does. My average aimed shot crit is around 1500. That's if it even crits. If it doesn't I hit around 600 damage depending on the target. Not only do I have all these things working against me getting that high damage crit, roughly 50% if the time my arrow flies off in a random direction nowhere near an enemy due to some kind of freakish lag. Oh, I forgot to mention that I am frequently 1KOed by rogues, 2 hit KOed by sorc, and 3 hit KOed by warrior. I rarely am able to beat a sorc if my first shot doesn't KO him outright due to shield/fireball/lightning combo. But, I'm ok with all of this. My class can kill as easily as it can die, therefore, it is balanced.
    This is also very true

  7. #307
    Junior Member Tribalware's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erdnase View Post
    u keep wondering where these people r coming from, but more and more keep coming. So have u ever thought that u might be wrong? Or is that too much for ur narcissistic personality to handle?
    A little unecessary and childish but that's cool, I'll roll with it (really though, bite me again I like it). I often consider the possibility that I'm wrong about the things I say, but the more I PvP the more I fail to see mages soloing warriors. Ever. Which is what we're talking about by the way for anyone else reading, just so this back and forth doesn't degenerate any further into an entirely useless mud slinging match.

    We have two players who are arguing that as the class balance system stands mages are able to solo warriors, and another 14 pages of players who are all (for the most part) throwing up the same things, most noticeably that warriors are overpowered and mages are underpowered. I'm putting it to you that even if the system was balanced properly, which it isn't, then a mage shouldn't really be able to solo a warrior. Not unless they take away all a warriors stuns and closing moves, nerf their heal and give us mages a proper freeze. So if it wouldn't make sense in a balanced system I really don't see it happening in one where mages are at an inherent disadvantage anyway.

    I'm just saying it's a little daft to give feedback that suggests sorcs are 1v1ing warriors, because it isn't happening.
    WIN!? How could you possibly hope to win? You're not fighting a belief you're fighting a psychological imbalance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Uzii View Post
    oke so just now we get owned by mages bufing up and healing each other stunning and. beating up everyone to dead. practicly no chance to move at all and jsut watch like lightning strike upon ur head and u dead in 1-2 sec. mybe is just lag i couldnt fire my skills properly if they were fired at all when i pressed them (ping was fine). but if no that shield last more then 2 sec its like 4-5 maybe 6..thats pretty much time for charging 2 skills and beating someone to dead and have shield still on..
    before i got even chance to fire an arrow i was stun with fireball coming through corner wall..

    As it seems now only few mages r now possible to be one shooted as r rouges. and mages can beat up a rouge in few sec too so its unbalanced or balanced? i think everyone have same chance to survive and kill..maybe a rouge in disatvantage here a bit as he cant move from stun. making razor shield upgrade realy working that removes slow effect or can make duration of stunts lower bc killing someone takes only few sec and stunts last all the time till im beating to dead will give a rouge chance to defend urself
    So true, and people laughed at me because i said that mages can own a whole arena -_- well guess whos laughing now!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tribalware View Post
    No, they can't. Does anyone else here with experience in endgame PvP want to chime in and agree that a mage can beat a warrior 1vs.1? Obviously assuming they both have full health and mana. I just don't see where posts like this are coming from, I don't mind not being able to take down a warrior 1vs1, maybe that's not my job. But I wish people would stop coming out of nowhere and making out like it's even possible let alone common place for this to happen.

    Sorcs beating warriors? Cut us all a break would you, seriously now.
    I second this.

    Why is it always a a non mage saying that their bestfriend's friends friend is a top mage is having no problems and owning warriors.

    I'm having problems killing those warriors. And now they travel in 2s and 3s.
    Better yet to prove a point.

    Someone name your mage II'll use my warrior.
    I'll go spec that dreaded skyward smash (high damage, stun, flies across the map), whirlwind(aoe dps snare), juggernaut,(500heal), vengeful blood (500heal+mana regent+crit buff).

    1vs1 let's see. Maybe I need lessons playing my mage.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tribalware View Post
    A little unecessary and childish but that's. cool, I'll roll with it (really though, bite me again I like it). I often consider the possibility that I'm wrong about the things I say, but the more I PvP the more I fail to see mages soloing warriors. Ever. Which is what we're talking about by the way for anyone else reading, just so this back and forth doesn't degenerate any further into an entirely useless mud slinging match.

    We have two players who are arguing that as the class balance system stands mages are able to solo warriors, and another 14 pages of players who are all (for the most part) throwing up the same things, most noticeably that warriors are overpowered and mages are underpowered. I'm putting it to you that even if the system was balanced properly, which it isn't, then a mage shouldn't really be able to solo a warrior. Not unless they take away all a warriors stuns and closing moves, nerf their heal and give us mages a proper freeze. So if it wouldn't make sense in a balanced system I really don't see it happening in one where mages are at an inherent disadvantage anyway.

    I'm just saying it's a little daft to give feedback that suggests sorcs are 1v1ing warriors, because it isn't happening.
    I'm sorry tribal but i will have to disagree. i dont want to start another arument berween us. but it dosent happen all the time but sometimes you can see mage solo a warrior. most of the time the warrior is wearing winter wonder land and some other legendary armor. but ive caught a mage beat a warrior with full demonlord and full juggernaut......but maybe the warriors just sucked. i have no idea. i just know that i could beat them...but I'm a rogue so I'm supposed to
    Last edited by nicoB; 01-22-2013 at 07:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicoB View Post
    most mages have more HP than me...... i get one shoted a lot but i dont complain about it. and rogue have a combo thats offten mistaken for one attack when its actually 2
    Of course you wont complain if you get one shotted.. thats because you have that capacity too. If i have the skill to do one shot kill, i wont be complaining "hey pls nerf me, im too strong for this".

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    Quote Originally Posted by nicoB View Post
    I'm sorry tribal but i will have to disagree. i dont want to start another arument berween us. but it dosent happen all the time but sometimes you can see mage solo a warrior. most of the time the warrior is wearing winter wonder land and some other legendary armor. but ive caught a mage beat a warrior with full demonlord and full juggernaut......but maybe the warriors just sucked. i have no idea. i just know that i could beat them...but I'm a rogue so I'm supposed to
    Find me a mage and I'll look for him. 1v1 with my warrior.
    If not me I'll even suggest another warrior.

    If he can beat me the majority of times, I'll gladly post here that I'm wrong.

    My warrior is RazorApple. I already respecced and played him a bit. I made 2 mages and a rogue leave the arena in one game and felt bad about it. I'm looking for a mage that can solo me as you've said they could.

    I haven't found one yet.

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    Junior Member Tribalware's Avatar
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    That's really quite sad that you'd go to so much effort. And that you'd take the intellectual high ground over one spelling mistake and then confuse the words feel and fill. Just cut it out will you, Juicebox has thrown down a perfectly reasonable challenge, call it an ingame test. We'll PvP and have you go up against his warrior 1v1 say 10 times and record the wins and losses.

    Seems like a better way to settle a debate than trolling, name calling and (?!) fake quoting don't you think? So lets set it up. NicoB you can be in on this too, we'll all get together and watch. I'll have a crack at his warrior too and we can compare tactics etc. in a semi-controlled sort of environment.

    Obviously everyones seen a mage kill a warrior, but without hp or mana bars there's no way of knowing what sort of state that warrior was in when he got taken down, this way we can be sure both parties have full hp and are focused only on each other, proper 1vs1 like we've been discussing. Juice has thrown down the gauntlet, sound good?

    EDIT: It's also occurred to me that whilst I'm sure you have the best intentions NicoB, you did just say that you don't actually play as a mage. So you're experience of mages soloing warriors is second hand at best. I'm not sure you can really disagree with me over what it's like to go solo as a mage against a warrior without ever having actually played a mage yourself. All due respect intended, I'm sure you're a great rogue but if we're talking about warriors vs. mages then the opinions of warriors and mages are the only ones that are going to be well informed.
    Last edited by Tribalware; 01-22-2013 at 08:25 PM.
    WIN!? How could you possibly hope to win? You're not fighting a belief you're fighting a psychological imbalance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tribalware View Post
    That's really quite sad that you'd go to so. much effort. And that you'd take the intellectual high ground over one spelling mistake and then confuse the words feel and fill. Just cut it out will you, Juicebox has thrown down a perfectly reasonable challenge, call it an ingame test. We'll PvP and have you go up against his warrior 1v1 say 10 times and record the wins and losses.

    Seems like a better way to settle a debate than trolling, name calling and (?!) fake quoting don't you think? So lets set it up. NicoB you can be in on this too, we'll all get together and watch. I'll have a crack at his warrior too and we can compare tactics etc. in a semi-controlled sort of environment.

    Obviously everyones seen a mage kill a warrior, but without hp or mana bars there's no way of knowing what sort of state that warrior was in when he got taken down, this way we can be sure both parties have full hp and are focused only on each other, proper 1vs1 like we've been discussing. Juice has thrown down the gauntlet, sound good?

    EDIT: It's also occurred to me that whilst I'm sure you have the best intentions NicoB, you did just say that you don't actually play as a mage. So you're experience of mages soloing warriors is second hand at best. I'm not sure you can really disagree with me over what it's like to go solo as a mage against a warrior without ever having actually played a mage yourself. All due respect intended, I'm sure you're a great rogue but if we're talking about warriors vs. mages then the opinions of warriors and mages are the only ones that are going to be well informed.
    Fair enough

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    Junior Member Tribalware's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JuiceBox View Post
    I second this.

    Why is it always a a non mage saying that their bestfriend's friends friend is a top mage is having no problems and owning warriors.

    I'm having problems killing those warriors. And now they travel in 2s and 3s.
    Better yet to prove a point.

    Someone name your mage II'll use my warrior.
    I'll go spec that dreaded skyward smash (high damage, stun, flies across the map), whirlwind(aoe dps snare), juggernaut,(500heal), vengeful blood (500heal+mana regent+crit buff).

    1vs1 let's see. Maybe I need lessons playing my mage.
    There's the challenge, I think it could be fun if we can all agree to get together in game without shouting 'noob' at each other. He has a point here though, Juice and I are mages making claims about warriors vs. mages and the people disagreeing with us are either rogues saying 'but i see it happen, mages must totally pwn' or... other rogues saying 'I've got two mage friends who totally pwn like maybe... 50% of the time'. But neither of you are mages, you're not even warriors. Meaning you're totally unsuited to be talking about a mage and a warrior going 1v1 properly. There is of course also erdnase, the only actual mage to be arguing with us. But I'm not entirely sure what his point is anymore.

    EDIT: Hey Juicebox what are your IGN's? We'll check each others stats out so that you can verify me as maxed and then we'll kickstart this little experiment by you trashing me in the arena 10 or so times. I've got a couple of new specs I want to try against you, current plat count on respecs - 40. Curse you sts.
    Last edited by Tribalware; 01-22-2013 at 08:43 PM.
    WIN!? How could you possibly hope to win? You're not fighting a belief you're fighting a psychological imbalance.

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    Guys, you have made some excellent points, but there is way too much noise here. The devs may be relying on reading these forums to decide what changes need to be made. Please help them by keeping the amount of trolling to a minimum. Likewise don't feed them either. Ty.

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    There is no point in 1v1 to see which class is more powerful. All you have to do is look at a simple combat triangle. Note that this triangle relies on all classes being full or evenly specced statwise.
    WARRIOR>SORC>ROGUE>WARRIOR
    Now obviously you can't have warriors beat sorc every single time or have sorc beat rogues every single time. Each class has a "counter skill" to keep this from happening. The counter skill is not always effective but it does give you a chance to "even the odds". Aimed shot is the counter skill, and also main damage skill, for rogues. Warriors have heals to counter the rogues high damage. Sorc have stuns, that also act offensively, to slow warriors down so they can kill them from afar. Lots of individual skills have counter skills too. Take windmill for example. It can be countered by a charged shadow pierce or a sorc shield and stuns. Over time I think most people figure this out even if it doesn't actually cross their mind.

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    Senior Member Patricks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vystirch:938407
    Quote Originally Posted by Tribalware View Post
    No one's disputing that, I've PvP'd with applejaq he's a rogue. But what you said was 'Warriors can be 1v1ed by mages', and now you're backing that up by saying that the top ranking ctf kills player can solo a warrior? Well obviously that's true.
    Yes, pm my top two mages, melodicdeath, and drgrimmy. They don't win every time but they do win 50-50.
    Tbh, i dont think drgrimmy would say mage vs warrior 1v1 both in comparably top spec would be 50/50 odds as he has expressed similar grievances about mages, but i cant be certain of what he would say. I can only say drgrimmy is a very nice dude.

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    Do all of the mages AoE crowd control skills work?
    On that note, can rogues and warriors dash/sky smash pass through a charged time shift?
    Also, can warriors and rogues dash/sky smash with the flag without slowing them down?
    Why can the big elephant class keep up with the other classes in terms of speed?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tribalware View Post
    There's the challenge, I think it could be fun if we can all agree to get together in game without shouting 'noob' at each other. He has a point here though, Juice and I are mages making claims about warriors vs. mages and the people disagreeing with us are either rogues saying 'but i see it happen, mages must totally pwn' or... other rogues saying 'I've got two mage friends who totally pwn like maybe... 50% of the time'. But neither of you are mages, you're not even warriors. Meaning you're totally unsuited to be talking about a mage and a warrior going 1v1 properly. There is of course also erdnase, the only actual mage to be arguing with us. But I'm not entirely sure what his point is anymore.

    EDIT: Hey Juicebox what are your IGN's? We'll check each others stats out so that you can verify me as maxed and then we'll kickstart this little experiment by you trashing me in the arena 10 or so times. I've got a couple of new specs I want to try against you, current plat count on respecs - 40. Curse you sts.
    Mage - JuiceBox
    Warrior - RazorApple

    Feel free to test your mage against my warrior.
    He is wearing lvl 21 Demonlord Grace.
    That's all str based + dex armor with % to dodge. With matching jewelry.

    I have for weapons vorpal assault and protector grace.

    So of course I have low int which is not a concern as vengeance keeps my mana full.

    I also have full str passive.

    Also I don't play my warrior in PvP. Proof will be the low CTF kills or flag capture. As I prefer to play my mage.

    Can't wait to test this with you guys. As I genuinely want to prove that I'm wrong. Rogues are welcome to test as well.

    I did not make my build up, I took it from a warrior thread and it is very powerful.

    So kite me, go toe to toe.. try what you must to beat me 1v1. This is an open challenge to any rogues or mages.

    I don't claim to be the best warrior I'm far from it. I'm trying to prove how endgame gear and the right skills make warriors unmatched.

    Just find me in game and friend me and we can get started. Starting tomorrow :-)

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