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Thread: DPS vs Damage - a detailed comparison

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    Senior Member CosmoxKramer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaytB View Post
    I don't think there are weapons with .33x (3x a second as in your example) weapon speed, are there? Maybe the example is a bit extreme but I get what you're saying. This mechanic would indeed explain why high DPS weapons are more effective as compared to PL.

    But that's if you auto-attack (or however it's called here). I got hardly any dead spots in my skill rotation so I don't really get a chance to use the attack button a lot. And then there's that generally terrible weapon range, especially with those lv25 high DPS/rods.

    Anyway, thanks for clarifying. Learning something new everyday
    actually you can really maximize your dps by AA just before skill attacks. There doesn't seem to be any GCD (global cool-down) when you do a AA, but there is about a .5s GCD after each sorcerer spell. So, max dps is AA immediately followed by skill, AA skill, etc.

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    Senior Member drgrimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaytB View Post
    I don't think there are weapons with .33x (3x a second as in your example) weapon speed, are there? Maybe the example is a bit extreme but I get what you're saying. This mechanic would indeed explain why high DPS weapons are more effective as compared to PL.

    But that's if you auto-attack (or however it's called here). I got hardly any dead spots in my skill rotation so I don't really get a chance to use the attack button a lot. And then there's that generally terrible weapon range, especially with those lv25 high DPS/rods.

    Anyway, thanks for clarifying. Learning something new everyday
    Yeah, I don't think there are any weapons that attack 3x/sec. Just a gross simplification for illustrating a point

    I agree with you, with a 4 damage skill build and charging all of you skills i hardly find a dead spot to get in quick "auto-attacks." Furthermore, when fighting a boss I feel that the occasional push back of the rifles from the "auto-attack" is somewhat counterproductive to the team, especially if it moves the boss out of a good postion. I therefor also prefer a high damage and not a high dps build. Although, before the days of the rifles, for boss fighting I usually found it best not to charge skills (as the charging only slightly increases damage and is more for mob control effects), to spam all of the skills immediately after a buff from your pet, and to spam the flamestrike rod between the uncharged skills.
    Last edited by drgrimmy; 03-01-2013 at 02:07 PM.

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    Guardian of Alterra JaytB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmoxKramer View Post
    actually you can really maximize your dps by AA just before skill attacks. There doesn't seem to be any GCD (global cool-down) when you do a AA, but there is about a .5s GCD after each sorcerer spell. So, max dps is AA immediately followed by skill, AA skill, etc.
    Interesting, I usually start with charged ice for the possible DOT proc. But yeah, I try and AA as much as possible in between skills, the range of guns is also long enough to make them actually useful. You're not charging any skills in your boss-kill rotation? I've been wondering what would cause the highest Dmg possible, but sometimes the descriptions of what charged vs uncharged skills do are not very clear to me.


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    Senior Member CosmoxKramer's Avatar
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    from what i found at lvl21 max with my spreadsheet DO NOT charge anything on a boss. timeshift wants you to think it's good, but a charge takes 1s + .5s GCD, because of that you could get in 1 more AA in during that lost 1s and you get like 11 damage dot for ~8ish seconds.

    i do the same, but i start with a charged Time to start. I found that the +3s duration on frost make the dot go on each cast, charged or not
    the thing that works better when charging is the aoe on impact, causing frost/slow to multiple mobs. after the initial TS charge, i just AA then skill, without charging anything.

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    Luminary Poster Energizeric's Avatar
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    Jay: First things first, I still like shanks better than bow!! haha

    As Drgrimmy mentioned, armor works different in AL than in PL. I can't find the thread, but it was explained by a developer a while ago. Basically armor deducts a percentage of the hit rather than a flat amount. So unlike in PL, two hits of 200 dmg each is the same as one hit of 400 dmg. The percentage deduction depends on your level, your opponents level, and how much armor you have.

    But you are correct that neither has much to do with skill damage, and as a mage you are clearly better off with high dmg than high dps. The only exception to this I have noticed is if you are farming mobs and don't want to spend much on mana pots then you can do just fine with high dps weapon (like a clever flamestrike rod) by spamming the attack, non-charged.

    A lot of this also depends on your build. If you have 4 offensive skills like you do in your build, then of course you don't need to ever use the regular non-skill attack as you will always have another skill to go to. But for some who may have PvP builds with only 2 offensive skills (maybe they have shield & heal as their other 2 skills), then they are going to have time waiting for those skills to cool down, and they may be better off with the high dps weapon that they can spam attack at those times.

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    Nice guide man!

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    Guardian of Alterra JaytB's Avatar
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    Thanks for the positive reactions and knowledge shared. I'm happy I made the thread, you guys helped me understand the AL mechanics a lot better!

    I'll react on the individual comments tomorrow (getting real late over here). I just wanted to share my final build. I did like someone suggested in this thread and got the 'of brutality' ring and amulet. I loose about 30 armor, but gain well over 300 Health points and about 2-3 skill dmg (344 max dmg for fire ball, 527 max lightning).

    I haven't tested it yet, but I guess survivability is a bit better with 300 more HP as compared to 30 armor?

    Anyway, here's a screen shot...



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    Senior Member CosmoxKramer's Avatar
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    Pimp damage still

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    Guardian of Alterra JaytB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmoxKramer View Post
    from what i found at lvl21 max with my spreadsheet DO NOT charge anything on a boss. timeshift wants you to think it's good, but a charge takes 1s + .5s GCD, because of that you could get in 1 more AA in during that lost 1s and you get like 11 damage dot for ~8ish seconds.

    i do the same, but i start with a charged Time to start. I found that the +3s duration on frost make the dot go on each cast, charged or not
    the thing that works better when charging is the aoe on impact, causing frost/slow to multiple mobs. after the initial TS charge, i just AA then skill, without charging anything.
    Thanks for the info. I adapted my skill rotation accordingly and noticed I could finish some test runs a bit quicker


    Quote Originally Posted by Energizeric View Post
    Jay: First things first, I still like shanks better than bow!! haha

    As Drgrimmy mentioned, armor works different in AL than in PL. I can't find the thread, but it was explained by a developer a while ago. Basically armor deducts a percentage of the hit rather than a flat amount. So unlike in PL, two hits of 200 dmg each is the same as one hit of 400 dmg. The percentage deduction depends on your level, your opponents level, and how much armor you have.

    But you are correct that neither has much to do with skill damage, and as a mage you are clearly better off with high dmg than high dps. The only exception to this I have noticed is if you are farming mobs and don't want to spend much on mana pots then you can do just fine with high dps weapon (like a clever flamestrike rod) by spamming the attack, non-charged.

    A lot of this also depends on your build. If you have 4 offensive skills like you do in your build, then of course you don't need to ever use the regular non-skill attack as you will always have another skill to go to. But for some who may have PvP builds with only 2 offensive skills (maybe they have shield & heal as their other 2 skills), then they are going to have time waiting for those skills to cool down, and they may be better off with the high dps weapon that they can spam attack at those times.
    First off LOL at the shanks over bow remark, that was already a while ago haha

    About your remark on saving mana pots, IMO if someone wants to run an elite dungeon they should at least be prepared to to use some mana and/or health pots. Too often I see people just standing around while the rest tries and kill the boss, or they start to attack fiercely and then go sit in a corner and wait for their mana to regenerate. But yeah, I get what you're saying.


    And for all doubters of my rockstar status:
    Quote Originally Posted by Justg View Post
    U rok, thanks!

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    Nice guide!

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    Your build is basically the way I was going, but I sacrificed a little health for crit. I've found at 15% crit you get them often enough to really see a difference (right now at 17.13), so that's my goal. Right now just missing the ring and amulet (ring for sure, amulet I'll want to test).

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    Junior Member ZigZag's Avatar
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    well written I was looking for BIS items, and now I have found them!
    ZigZag lvl26 Sorcerer
    SaltyWound lvl10 *twink* rogue

  14. #33
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    I think I got mine done the way I wanted it, 400 less health (about 1 hit, or less, in elite KI) but 5% more crit.

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    Guardian of Alterra JaytB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valsacar View Post
    I think I got mine done the way I wanted it, 400 less health (about 1 hit, or less, in elite KI) but 5% more crit.
    Could you possibly post a screenshot of your stats and what pet you have equipped with it? I been playing with the idea of a crit mage for a while now, I'd be very interested to see the stats on a maxed crit mage


    And for all doubters of my rockstar status:
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    U rok, thanks!

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    Guardian of Alterra JaytB's Avatar
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    Oops, wrong thread O.o

    <--- forum noob


    And for all doubters of my rockstar status:
    Quote Originally Posted by Justg View Post
    U rok, thanks!

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    Guardian of Alterra JaytB's Avatar
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    @Cosmo

    I'd still go for the gun for 1 reason, range. Your calculation adds the max dps/dmg possible right? That would mean you'd actually have to press the AA button about 2x a second (assuming a .5x wep speed), assuming you never miss once. If this reasoning is correct, I'd have to be: 1. Never missing an AA, which seems nearly impossible if you'll simultaneously have to press your skills 2. Very close to the boss, since the range of AA on a rod is really small (putting your squishy life at serious risk).

    So would it be a stretch to say that the practical dps/dmg would be lower in the end? Or am I overlooking something?

    Edit: Forgot to mention I'm using Colton more now. It seems that you're correct when you said the dmg output would be higher. I simple tested it with timed runs, and they went a tad faster when using Colton. There are still specific maps that I use Clyde for though, mainly when I need more HP.
    Last edited by JaytB; 03-04-2013 at 10:41 PM.


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    Senior Member CosmoxKramer's Avatar
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    Yes the calculator is a perfect scenario...a person not physically missing any AA. But the way I see it if u miss some with a Flamestrike (.55 a/s) you may miss a few less with a oracle gun (.89 a/s)

    And F me I think I bugged something out with the CDs on the skills...not working now...grr...never ending work..late tonight, ill play with it tomorrow.

  19. #38
    Guardian of Alterra JaytB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CosmoxKramer View Post
    Yes the calculator is a perfect scenario...a person not physically missing any AA. But the way I see it if u miss some with a Flamestrike (.55 a/s) you may miss a few less with a oracle gun (.89 a/s)

    And F me I think I bugged something out with the CDs on the skills...not working now...grr...never ending work..late tonight, ill play with it tomorrow.
    Haha, I still haven't had the chance to look into your calculator. Family and work keep me very occupied.

    But yeah, something doesn't seem right. When I did timed (solo) runs with the flamestrike rod, I was consistently slower as compared to that crystal of force. If I have some spare time during the week/weekend I'll dive into you calculator, maybe we can work out the kinks together


    And for all doubters of my rockstar status:
    Quote Originally Posted by Justg View Post
    U rok, thanks!

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    Luminary Poster Energizeric's Avatar
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    Just thought I would ask, but are you accounting for the lightning upgrade that gives 250% crit?

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    Senior Member CosmoxKramer's Avatar
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    yes

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