RIP Vengeful ?

[Lethalknight]

Well. This is how I quit new veng.

I used to use ss, veng, hor, jugg. All str, 5 mighty.
And becasue of the change, I used ss first to stun, following with veng, and jugg to taunt, and another ss for dmg & stun and auto attack. And wait to see others and my health to use hor, but new veng gives me about 20% of mana back while my 40% of health is gone, even with HoR on, my health is going down below 50%, and mana is still below 50% because I have to use other skills to tank, and before long, ran out of mana and health, couldn't use hor or jugg, spamming pots and charge hor, struggling and dead at some point, and kill all my party....

It works as it says, but seems not giving enough mana back for me. I don't know how some people says it give you enough mana. (No sarcastic. Real curious. )

It's same that I had to spam health pots, but it's harder to do tank now.

I can't give up str, because I have only one attack, and it will be too weak for pvp.
It worked well before new lvl cap. My ss makes 300-600 dmg which is enough to kill 1600 -2k health rogue and mage.

Now with new lvl cap rogue got 900+ armor and more dmg, my build wasn't working so well because of poor dmg. My jugg, veng and HoR can't defense me from rogues massive attack now.


So I change veng to windmill all 5. And removed all taunt point and mana regen in ss (this gives nothing) and put 5 in passive int, all str, 5 mighty.
I still have good dmg, mana is ok with good mana regen pet or even without it if I be careful.

But still dmg is weak in pvp. Not great, but better. So I give up new veng.

Any one really getting enough mana from it? Or tell me how to use new veng properly?
I even tried to just use veng and activate all taunt skills in the middle of elite mobs, no mana more than 50% but dead. Ridicules.
Tried for two day, still miss the dmg and crit buff, but gave up new veng.


Sorry. but maybe just more mana regen?
It just distract me from doing tanking only.

THANK YOU. Seriously you summoned exactly everything that I wanted to say in the beginning. Thanks again

[DeathVirus]

warrs had the most expensive gear used a ton of health potions lowest dmg and we had 1-2 dmg skills but now we have to use a bunch of health potions and mana while still trying to tank? and the reason we need our mana is to tank and take all the dmg while the others kill them off now we cant even tank like we used to i have to use 3 buffs and get probably 3 hits in before im spamming both health and mana to save my life or die why would you take the tanks best tanking skill??? its unfair....

[DeathVirus]

warrs had the most expensive gear used a ton of health potions lowest dmg and we had 1-2 dmg skills but now we have to use a bunch of health potions and mana while still trying to tank? and the reason we need our mana is to tank and take all the dmg while the others kill them off now we cant even tank like we used to i have to use 3 buffs and get probably 3 hits in before im spamming both health and mana to save my life of die why would you take the tanks best tanking skill??? its unfair....

forgot to mention our skills have the most mana cost and the longest cooldown out of everyone we dont get mana like we used to what sense does it make to raise the price of our skills? they were not even the best only good for tanking which is what were supposed to do

[Knightxblood]

This is a great point and one that I didn't think of. Expect a change where Bosses and Minibosses will increase your Mana and Health significantly more than normal mobs do.

Thanks wawawa64!

SERIOUSLY??? How could you guys not have considered this???? You guys should have done some user testing before letting the update release into the game!! I know your intentions are good but you should have at least considered all aspects. Right now there is more cons than pros!

Aside from the elite boss issue. After playing for quite some time, I've realized that I spend too much time paying attention to my mana depletion rather than focusing on the game itself. Plus, I find myself racing with other warriors to the frontline just so I could recover my Health and Mana, because if I am slower than the other warrior he would have already taunt all the mobs to him and I would have no mobs left for myself.

Just like wawawa64 said, why make the game so complicated? Its suppose to be a hack and slash game. Something free and easy yet enjoyable to play. This skill reminds me of Demon Hunters from Diablo3, whereby the amount of HP gain from killing mobs will be transfered to Life. LOL? I seriously hope you guys would consider to either changing back to the old VB with lesser mana gain or reduce the cool down time of VB.

[Hiosahaf]

I got a great build now, so that's not an issue. But my point is, what did we warriors ever do to you STS guys that you're giving us this punishment? :P everyone looooved the vengeful blood's abilities.. Now its almost like screaming in PvP and PvE "Come on man, hit me! I wanna recharge my health and mana!!"..
I'm not gonna whine much coz I got a good build, but its not as good as it was before.. Please take a note of it guys?

[Anindu Bandara]

tried all the builds but nothing seems to work with pvp.. mages and rogues kick bum on pvp.. even if we get a party, still mages and rogues get the kills.. its impossible to continue playing like this.. why the hell did STS change VB? nobody was complaining about it.. :/ the should've buffed mages and fixed the glitch with windmill in the update.. instead they made warriors the weakest class in the game.. just a walking pile of meat with alot of HP :/

[Swede]

forgot to mention our skills have the most mana cost and the longest cooldown out of everyone we dont get mana like we used to what sense does it make to raise the price of our skills? they were not even the best only good for tanking which is what were supposed to do

No, Warrior skills has the least mana cost and comparable cooldowns to the other two classes.

[Shaukei]

I noticed Vengeful Blood only restores mana and health when an enemy hits you. It doesn't work well with, say, the Horn of Renew shield, or a dodge buff (e.g. Malison's). Is this correct?

I haven't tried Elite or PvP yet, so I can't speak for those. But I did some normal tomb, mine and Skull Cove runs, and I'm not having any real mana issues.. That is, if I'm the only warrior. If I'm 'competing' over aggro with another warrior, mana does become a problem.

To the people who are complaining about not getting as many kills, isn't that more or less the idea of a tank? Just because you're not getting a lot of kills, doesn't mean you're not being useful, you know.

[Lethalknight]

No, Warrior skills has the least mana cost and comparable cooldowns to the other two classes.

Seriously man, I want you to answer my question. Why u changed VB in the first place. What was your intention. Until now no one explained why? So please give me one logical reason.

[Shaukei]

Seriously man, I want you to answer my question. Why u changed VB in the first place. What was your intention. Until now no one explained why? So please give me one logical reason.

Here you go:

(...) it rewards the Warrior for clever use of his skills. Before it was just kind of brain dead, use it every time it's off cooldown and you'll never run out of mana, not balanced or interesting.

(...) Without any investment in to intelligence at all, and with just a filled out Vengeful Blood, I literally couldn't run out of mana before this patch. I never had to drink a mana potion, ever. That was broken and not fair since the other classes did, even with points in intelligence. In fact the mana cost for the Warrior's abilities were almost half that of the Rogue's.

I'm sorry that you don't like the change but it's not going back to what it was. Numbers can be adjusted if we feel they need to be but I have to say that as I'm testing it, I'm never forced to spam mana pots. Yes I have to drink some now and then but that was the intent, one class never having to use mana pots was poor implementation on our part.

[Lethalknight]

Here you go:

Seriously!!! so now you think the power is equal between all classes. Now you dont think that rogue has over power than all classes. just yesterday i sow a rogue with 432 dps!!!!! how can I pvp that guy. Even if I maxed out my warrior gears which i dont think so because its freaking expensive to buy all that gear. But still its impossible for that guy to be defeated. Try to pvp for few days and you will know what I am talking about.

As for VB is no brainier!!! Seriously dude, all classes is no brainier. Except warriors, now warriors is like a peace of paper with many holes in it. I close one hole another one shows up. I dont know where or how to use my skills. Speacetime, not only changed VB but warriors now have less dps, health, and crit. So the update not only screwed VB but also Warriors.

Thanks a lot.

[Syylent]

[QUOTE=Lethalknight;1008846]Seriously!!! so now you think the power is equal between all classes. Now you dont think that rogue has over power than all classes. just yesterday i sow a rogue with 432 dps!!!!! how can I pvp that guy. Even if I maxed out my warrior gears which i dont think so because its freaking expensive to buy all that gear. But still its impossible for that guy to be defeated. Try to pvp for few days and you will know what I am talking about.

As for VB is no brainier!!! Seriously dude, all classes is no brainier. Except warriors, now warriors is like a peace of paper with many holes in it. I close one hole another one shows up. I dont know where or how to use my skills. Speacetime, not only changed VB but warriors now have less dps, health, and crit. So the update not only screwed VB but also Warriors.

Thanks a lot.[/QUOTE

Not sure what type of warrior you run. Mine certainly isn't a piece of paper. hmmm

I still have no issues on mana.. Nothing like my mage or rogue. I still have to suck health pots though. Just like on my sorc and rogue, if I decide I want the extra mana I will suck down a mana pot. Before.. I never had to. I have always wanted to use axe throw. It was a waste of points prior to patch. Now I am still trying to decide.

Less health? doubt it. Less dps.. yup... Less crit... yup. Nothing different than we had before.

Rogues dps is up there... yes it is... not sure if it is overpowered or not. From what I can tell playing my rogue it isn;t one shot but a quick release of 3 shots. Maybe the cooldown needs to be adjusted... No clue... not enough time to test and I certainly do not want to spend a ton on respecs for the sake of beta testing pvp.

[Friufi]

Come on guys, use the free respecs and try out some different builds. It's not so bad to put a few points into INT so you have some more mana to start with. Also, if you hit charged Vengeful Blood and then hit Charged Windmill into a group of mobs, not only will you lay down some nice damage (the Veng blood + is very nice) but you'll taunt them, take the hits, get the mana and keep your team rolling as they can lay down hurt into the mob without worry about agro (because you just taunted them all).

Adapt, improvise and overcome!

Taunting the mobs to attack the warrior is in theory what the warrior is supposed to do, but it doesn't really happen in practice. Other character classes aggro mobs with their attacks, even with the improved warrior taunts. Not to mention that warriors in the same party are competing for taunts. Adding to this, mages have stun skills, which although it's no doubt beneficial to mages themselves, a stunned mob couldn't attack. So how would warriors get the mana return if the mob is stunned?

Instead of making mana return only when the enemies attack, why not make the VB skill a mana leeching skill i.e. warriors get mana when attacking enemies during VB is active. This was suggested in another post by DeathVirus. It's a darn great idea.

P.S. I suspect STS classify spamming mana pots as a mandatory adaptation or improvisation for a warrior, which I now have no choice but to utilise on a regular basis.

[Wowsome]

my current build has 900 mana, and with vb, i very rarely need to pot mana in elite runs .. maybe when i mistime/misplace skills. there is no way a warrior *has to* *spam* mana pots.

perhaps ive gotten used to the new mechanics now .. in short, vb is still cool

[Excuses]

my current build has 900 mana, and with vb, i very rarely need to pot mana in elite runs .. maybe when i mistime/misplace skills. there is no way a warrior *has to* *spam* mana pots.

perhaps ive gotten used to the new mechanics now .. in short, vb is still cool

I currently changed back to veng to try it again for damage.
And I realized that veng isn't as that bad as it was. Maybe it's because I have better armor now(+1000), or from the update, not sure but it is ok to use..

Not great because it gives me mana randomly. (If it is supposed to give me mana back from all dmg, this might be a bug.)

I tried to test HOR and Veng tonight to see how veng works in horn's shield.
And it didn't give me any mana back with shield on, neither for a few secs after it's gone or. Sometimes not at all.... (Tested more than 20times/5 min with the boss of wt1 alone.)

While my mana goes below 50% by using Horn and Veng (I wasn't attack at all), it gave me only a couple of mana back (not mention of amount but number of times)

Well. So if this is a bug, hope someone fix it.
But I have to admit it's not really bad as it was if you use it properly.

[Wowsome]

I currently changed back to veng to try it again for damage.
And I realized that veng isn't as that bad as it was. Maybe it's because I have better armor now(+1000), or from the update, not sure but it is ok to use..

Not great because it gives me mana randomly. (If it is supposed to give me mana back from all dmg, this might be a bug.)

I tried to test HOR and Veng tonight to see how veng works in horn's shield.
And it didn't give me any mana back with shield on, neither for a few secs after it's gone or. Sometimes not at all.... (Tested more than 20times/5 min with the boss of wt1 alone.)

While my mana goes below 50% by using Horn and Veng (I wasn't attack at all), it gave me only a couple of mana back (not mention of amount but number of times)

Well. So if this is a bug, hope someone fix it.
But I have to admit it's not really bad as it was if you use it properly.

try elites .. since mana returned is in proportion to the damage taken, elites return more mana than their normal counterparts. similarly, 1 boss (or 1 of those big crabs) returns more mana than 1 simple mob.

hor shield ==> no damage taken for 2 sec ==> no mana. if u have still maintained aggro after 2 sec, u should get mana.

how much mana does ur build have? on using vb at the correct time and place, i have seen mana shoot up from 20-30% to 100%.

[ishyrionek]

All misunderstandings come from 1 reason.
Devs testing it alone in game.
Players always got 4team party.

So, when u play alone, yeah u got enought mana.
In team there lots of 2 sec healing shields, mobs attack all party, its hard too keep agro, wizzard cant heal cause lifegiver got crazy agro and he die 50/50 when he do that. So its kinda harder with mana.

[Wowsome]

Devs testing it alone in game.

we dont really know that, do we?

Players always got 4team party.

not really true.


ill say it again - it is really just a matter of using skills at the correct place and correct time.

[Excuses]

My mana is 1090 without pet.

But my point was not about the amount of mana I get back, but number of times I get back. And I tested alone too..

My health is going down as I get hit, but no mana comes back to me. If I am supposed to get mana back from an attack, even 1%, this might be a bug or something I mean because I saw I get NOTHING. Or it gives mana back randomly.

And yes, 4 player make difference.
But when I have another warrior or mage they heal me too, so I would say it depends on your party and situation.....

I use AT and SS.. so HoR is kind of only taunt for veng I have, and shield doesn't give me mana back... it's kind of hard...the best way to get aggro is standing on the first line and attack first. Veng on and SS to approach and move around to gather mobs then HoR. On elite you have to use different way tho.

But my wife's warrior has CS and Windmill.
So when I play with her account it seem getting more aggro, but at the same time I use mana to keep aggro. So I have to be careful. Pros and cons.

Anyways. My point is that veng's mana regen seems not working under shield and not always gives mana back.
I just wanted to share information.
Or if it's a bug, hope dev check this.

[Wowsome]

I use AT and SS.. so HoR is kind of only taunt for veng I have, and shield doesn't give me mana back... it's kind of hard...the best way to get aggro is standing on the first line and attack first. Veng on and SS to approach and move around to gather mobs then HoR. On elite you have to use different way tho.

But my wife's warrior has CS and Windmill.
So when I play with her account it seem getting more aggro, but at the same time I use mana to keep aggro. So I have to be careful. Pros and cons.

btw u have taunt on at too (single target, yes).

i gave up the hor taunt since last expansion. wm taunt + vb works great and it often gets filled to 100% mana when used right

Anyways. My point is that veng's mana regen seems not working under shield and not always gives mana back.
I just wanted to share information.
Or if it's a bug, hope dev check this.

this -->

hor shield ==> no damage taken for 2 sec ==> no mana. if u have still maintained aggro after 2 sec, u should get mana.