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Thread: The Myth of the KDR

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    Default The Myth of the KDR

    Micah wasnt one of those people who got their butts handed to them kathara she has 20k kills and i think i remeber yall rushing each other back in 51 days

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady_Pebbles View Post

    Myth #4 contradicts Myths #1-3. o_O Lovely irony!

    If you look at each myth as an individual scenario, you'll see that Micah wasn't contradicting his own statements, but only stating them as examples.

    I don't contract myself by saying "player one says white is bad", followed by "player one says white is good". I'm simply stating my observations, while player 1 is, in fact, the only contrary thing in the situation. Micah's post holds the exact same relation. The myths don't contradict each other, because they are separate of one another. If all of the myths originated from one source, that source would be contrary of itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gaanikejrjr View Post
    Micah wasnt one of those people who got their butts handed to them kathara she has 20k kills and i think i remeber yall rushing each other back in 51 days
    There was a time when Katahra and I were enemies but that was forever ago! Probably nearly two years ago. Since then we've been good friends. Honestly, though, if Katahra and I went head to head back in the day, I probably would have been the one getting my butt handed to me. Nowadays, with forgotten bows, it's harder to say. Plus Katahra is 56 now so I don't know.

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    I like the way you explained these myths. You are very accurate as you use the words most likely and never say this rule applies to everyone if this particular situation is evident. Good job on this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nutslammer View Post
    I like the way you explained these myths. You are very accurate as you use the words most likely and never say this rule applies to everyone if this particular situation is evident. Good job on this.
    Thank you so much! I do try to be as accurate and precise as I can with the words that I use.

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    Default The Myth of the KDR

    I bes?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyMicah View Post
    Everyone knows what a Kill-Death Ratio (KDR) is. It's the amount of kills you have divided by the amount of deaths. So if you have nine kills and three deaths, your KDR would be 3. In other words, the average amount of kills that you get per death. Ok, so everyone knows what it is, but it's come to my attention that few people understand it's significance.

    How many of you have heard people say something like "KDR means nothing!" Or "You can't judge a guy by his KDR!" Or perhaps you're on the flip side and hear people say something like "Wow he's so pro! He has a 5-1 KDR!" What are we to make of these kind of statements? This is where my thread will come in handy. My goal in this thread is to examine just what a KDR is and what it means. I'll do this by dispelling several common myths that we hear all the time.

    Myth #1- "Bad KDR means bad pvper!"

    It is so easy to size somebody up right away by their KDR. Try not to! While, as a general rule, a good pvper will, on fact, tend to have a better KDR, that is not always the case. Many times the pvper will have just caught on to pvp and his KDR will have sucked from the previous couple weeks/months or however long he's played. Shoot, he may have even gotten several thousand kills negative and is just now catching up to positive status!

    Another possibility that I've found to be fairly common is that the pvper sells free kills for in game gold. I don't even know if this is allowed (I wouldn't advise it) but it does happen.

    A few other possibilities include a character that someone hasn't played on in a long while and since then has improved, a character who, perhaps, gets picked on a lot for whatever reason, a character who was in a rushing guild, etc. All things said and done, there are many, many reasons why a bad KDR does not equate with a bad pvper. If you need a specific example, check out Paaahudd (check birdy DM leader board) He's one of the most talented birds I know and he doesn't even have a 1.5 KDR.

    Myth #2- "Good KDR means good pvper!"

    Similarly to the first myth, a good KDR doesn't mean that they're good at pvp! I know so, so many boosters! (I won't name any names) Also, a lot of times the pvper with the epic KDR doesn't even fight anyone with talent. They simply challenge the weaklings and farm the new guys. Now, this doesn't mean that everyone with a good KDR is a bad pvper. It just means that you can't judge somebody's talent by their KDR.

    Myth #3- "The more kills, the more talent!"

    This is also a very popular myth. Many people think that the more kills you have, the better you are at pvp. Not at all!!! The only thing that more kills means is that you've spent more time playing the game. Sure, it is very possible that by spending more time on the game, you've acquired more experience and skill. However, that doesn't have to be the case. I don't know how many cocky "pros" with some 20k+ kills have gotten mad at me for whatever reason and began rushing me only to get their butts handed to them. I don't say this to put myself up. I'm saying this to prove the point that lots of kills really doesn't mean anything more than lots of play time.

    Even that last statement I made isn't always true! I remember when a guy (forgot his name) gave his account to a buddy of his. He had an intense amount of kills with like a 4-1 KDR and I don't think he even knew how to chat...much less pvp.

    Myth #4 (This one is my favorite) "KDR means nothing!"

    This is perhaps the greatest myth of them all and the original reason why I began writing this thread. We have already seen one reason why this simply isn't true! The bigger the amount of kills and deaths, the more time they have spent in the arena. However, this is a very minor detail considering everything else that you can determine about a person by their KDR.

    I've also found KDR to be a very good indicator of a characters pvp style. When I watch another level 50 take out a glyph a couple times in a row and he has a KDR of 4,000+ kills to 3,000+ deaths, there's a very good chance that he's very reckless. He probably rushes a lot and doesn't back down ever. My guess is he's seen a lot of FFA and been teamed many times as well.

    Now, if a guy has say a 4,000 kills and 1,000 deaths KDR, it paints a totally different picture. That good of a KDR can't come easy. There's a very good chance the person boosts, fights lower levels, doesn't FFA too much, teams a lot, etc. He will most likely get more upset than most if you rush him and probably doesn't hand out frees either.

    There's only so many examples I can give, but I think you get the idea. KDR means a TON. It may not be a good indication of skill, but it certainly speaks volumes about everything else. Learn to read people's KDR's. Never assume anything, but always study other's KDR's.

    Just figured I'd try and post a little something helpful since I haven't really tried to help anybody lately! Hopefully you learned something!
    -MM
    I'm a bit half and half, more on the reckless side.

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    Well you've changed a lot.

    KDR means nothing, I'll stick with that.
    Flated.

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    Just saw this post, it's beautiful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sryyoulose View Post
    Just saw this post, it's beautiful.
    Haha thanks!

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    I started out with 5k kills, 10k deaths. Keep it up ona, you will get better at it as time goes.

    Nice post Micah, well done. +1

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    micah ruins my 56 mage's kdr >.>
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    Quote Originally Posted by pahud View Post
    I started out with 5k kills, 10k deaths. Keep it up ona, you will get better at it as time goes.

    Nice post Micah, well done. +1
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunnyshoota View Post
    micah ruins my 56 mage's kdr >.>
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    What I like most in your post is that you keep the balance right: kdr does not mean everything, but it's not useless either.

    I would like to add here that kdr and leaderboards in general are not that important in this game, as there are no consequences if someone has low ratings or benefits if someone has high. In fact, some might just choose to hide their stats and be happy about it In other games ratings are very important as there are closed tournaments in which a certain rating is required to enter.

    In any case, when it comes to judging who are the most successful PVPers, I believe that wins in tournaments (or good results) is all that matters. It's up to the community leaders (Tournament Leaders and/or GoAs) to post and manage a "Hall of Fame" thread which lists official tournament winners.

    Edit: Actually as Crim pointed out a Hall of Fame section exists in the forums: http://www.spacetimestudios.com/tournaments.php?do=hof
    Last edited by Brave Sir Robin; 04-01-2013 at 06:48 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robin View Post
    What I like most in your post is that you keep the balance right: kdr does not mean everything, but it's not useless either.

    I would like to add here that kdr and leaderboards in general are not that important in this game, as there are no consequences if someone has low ratings or benefits if someone has high. In fact, some might just choose to hide their stats and be happy about it In other games ratings are very important as there are closed tournaments in which a certain rating is required to enter.

    In any case, when it comes to judging who are the most successful PVPers, I believe that wins in tournaments (or good results) is all that matters. It's up to the community leaders (Tournament Leaders and/or GoAs) to post and manage a "Hall of Fame" thread which lists official tournament winners.
    Very good points! Although I disagree to some extent about tournaments. I've entered two tournaments in the past and both times I lost due to the fact that my opponent was essentially the "counter" build to mine. For instance a dex Mage vs a dex bird. It's my humble opinion that 1v1 (whether FFA or not) is still no indication of skill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyMicah View Post
    Very good points! Although I disagree to some extent about tournaments. I've entered two tournaments in the past and both times I lost due to the fact that my opponent was essentially the "counter" build to mine. For instance a dex Mage vs a dex bird. It's my humble opinion that 1v1 (whether FFA or not) is still no indication of skill.
    For the same class, it definitely is skill. After all, isn't the objective of a tourney to determine who has the most effective build and skills vs. other seasoned players?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robin View Post
    What I like most in your post is that you keep the balance right: kdr does not mean everything, but it's not useless either.

    I would like to add here that kdr and leaderboards in general are not that important in this game, as there are no consequences if someone has low ratings or benefits if someone has high. In fact, some might just choose to hide their stats and be happy about it In other games ratings are very important as there are closed tournaments in which a certain rating is required to enter.

    In any case, when it comes to judging who are the most successful PVPers, I believe that wins in tournaments (or good results) is all that matters. It's up to the community leaders (Tournament Leaders and/or GoAs) to post and manage a "Hall of Fame" thread which lists official tournament winners.
    If I'm bored and have time, I might do this for the end game community.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brave Sir Robin View Post
    What I like most in your post is that you keep the balance right: kdr does not mean everything, but it's not useless either.

    I would like to add here that kdr and leaderboards in general are not that important in this game, as there are no consequences if someone has low ratings or benefits if someone has high. In fact, some might just choose to hide their stats and be happy about it In other games ratings are very important as there are closed tournaments in which a certain rating is required to enter.

    In any case, when it comes to judging who are the most successful PVPers, I believe that wins in tournaments (or good results) is all that matters. It's up to the community leaders (Tournament Leaders and/or GoAs) to post and manage a "Hall of Fame" thread which lists official tournament winners.
    STS actually implemented this in the "Tournament" section of the forums. Each official tournament participant is logged as well as those who win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo View Post
    For the same class, it definitely is skill. After all, isn't the objective of a tourney to determine who has the most effective build and skills vs. other seasoned players?
    If it is the same class, then I agree. When it's multiple classes, it becomes who has the right character and build at the time and at the level. Since I don't have 50 billion characters, I don't have the luxury xD

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    Quote Originally Posted by MightyMicah View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Apollo View Post
    For the same class, it definitely is skill. After all, isn't the objective of a tourney to determine who has the most effective build and skills vs. other seasoned players?
    If it is the same class, then I agree. When it's multiple classes, it becomes who has the right character and build at the time and at the level. Since I don't have 50 billion characters, I don't have the luxury xD
    Yes. Latest official tournaments are not only class specific, but some have restrictions in gear as well (e.g. Show me the bird - only dex gear).

    Quote Originally Posted by XghostzX View Post
    If I'm bored and have time, I might do this for the end game community.
    This would be great. Although there is the Hall of Fame section, it could be a more extensive thread, e.g. listing 2nd - 4th places and other honorable mentions. Most of this info is available of course but it requires some digging - I feel it's a bit unfair to people who do constantly well but don't win in the end.

    We could also estimate ratings for official tournaments starting with the next one. There is an Elo calculator in the tournament's section (http://www.spacetimestudios.com/ladd...p?do=elorating) and I could help with the estimation if you want.
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