2v2 Tournament, April 7th

**Psykopathic** · 04-07-2013, 08:29 PM

Matches were interfered with and not restarted. People who got eliminated came back in though it was single elimination. Lots of talk and chatter during matches. Rules changed mid tourney.

Enough said

**Delphina** · 04-07-2013, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by Xbabydom

How can i get back my plats -_-

Please check your plat history under STS Nexus: My account and Purchase History.

**Cookietimee** · 04-07-2013, 08:48 PM

Originally Posted by iacito

They weren't allowed to use heal because the 2v2 game with two warriors on each side would have taken forever .

Thats changing rules maybe not every warrior has the same skills 2v2 dont take that long 1v1 warrior is the longest i saw , healing is a skill maybe an warrior has no healing but in place of that juggernaut or an 3th attack skill what then ? Thats unfair

**wlsgh15** · 04-07-2013, 11:40 PM

The reason Why lame: missed one aimshot n heal so didnt counted..
me and boss failed healing but counted cuz we didnt complained.
should i say more?
the timetable was ridiculous 2war vs 2war in 1st round.
and most people would know them by reputation.

**Excuses** · 04-08-2013, 12:19 AM

Wow... that's what happened...

It sounds like telling rogue not to use AS because it will finish too fast.

Ridiculous.

**Mysticaleagle** · 04-08-2013, 03:41 AM

TuMadreee! Gratz man! Am proud of ya.

**ishyrionek** · 04-08-2013, 04:00 AM

Can u give class specifics? I really dunno most of players.
Warrior(W), Sorcerer(S), Rogue(R).
Thx in advance.

**Genuinous** · 04-08-2013, 06:06 AM

I see many unhappy people flaming here, so let me write down what and why happened, as well as clarifying scores on the brackets. (updated brackets with scores)

Regarding warrior v warrior in 2v2
The match between Paulsebi&Xcs and Boss&Ramyunstyle left everyone unhappy. I understand, that this was a bad match. I should have realized that if 2 warriors on each team get matched up, that will not end. Ever. Yet I ignored this, because I believed, and I still do, that while 2 warriors are difficult to beat, a well balanced team can and will beat them. Not knowing the specific classes, I allowed this match to happen. You guys kept fighting for about 15 minutes or so, before I interfered and told you to dismiss your pets. We have done this change in the previous event (with Delphina around), and in 1v1 situations this helped to end the fight. I have no intention to rush a fight, but anything over 10 minutes without any hint of ending is just too long. Other players want to compete as well and are eager to participate. While it is certainly not ideal to end your fight and get rid of your pets, I hoped that similarly to a 1v1 situation, it would resolve problems. But it didn't. After another 15 minutes of going nowhere, nobody ran out of mana or got near to die without having heal ready and back to full hp, I had to make a decision. I could watch your guys fight for 2 hours and hope that something would happen or change the rules and conditions and allow everyone else to complete their matches. I tried to be open with you by making suggestions on how to change the fight in order to get a result (ie the suggestions made by me), but they were not quite welcomed, thus I decided that you should fight without heal. This was not an ideal solution, but a fair one. All four of you had heal skill and all four of you lost it. While some of your builds certainly relied more heavily on heal than others, I thought this was the best solution available. Also I allowed you to play until 3 wins, hoping to eliminate randomness better. I hope you will understand why I had to do this, even though it is a bad solution. Apologies for allowing warrior teams, should not have happened.

Regarding rules and rule changes
All players are expected to have read and understood the rules for the event. If you sign up, I assume you know what you are signing up for. This is a basic requirement that I will hold for all participants, not knowing the rules doesn't mean they don't apply for you. You can't possibly expect me to remind every player of the rules. If and when rules have to be changed, I will either announce them in the forums if it applies to everyone (ie hooks banned), or only to the relevant players (ie the above situation). Also in no post I have ever mentioned warm up matches and such.

Regarding restarting matches
Let me clear this up, as there was some annoyance about this as well. Matches will be restarted if the organizer judges that there is something wrong and that it is obviously and heavily effecting the outcome of the fight. These conditions will always be judged by the organizer who overview the match, as he is the only one who can make the relevant decisions.
Example for matches which can be restarted:
-Skills hitting organizer (easy to see)
-Early starts (match will be stopped right away)
-Skill fail right at the start of a match (this can be easily seen and justified by organizer)
Example for matches which will not be restarted:
-Skill fails (it is hard to judge if a skill really failed or not, also we all know skills fail when they are cast at the time you are stunned) exception above
-Lag (it is a serious issue, but again, cannot be confirmed)
As you can see, matches can be restarted when there is a clear reason, which the organizer can justify. Any other reason will not be accepted. Also I would like to say, that I will trust the decisions made by Dupstepticons to be correct, but I cannot verify it as I have not seen those matches. I can only speak for matches which I have overseen and in those I went by the above mentioned principles.

Regarding the match between Lordstephen&Vistix vs Thetruebeast&Xbabydom
I have made a crucial mistake here, by advancing the wrong team. Lord and Vis should have advanced to the second round, but by accident I have advanced Beast and Baby. However after advancing Beast and Baby fought hard to achieve third place, so I will not take it away from them. After realizing my mistake, Lord and Vis fought against Serancha&Ravagerx in a best of 5 match and they lost 3-1. This was the bronze match, that might have happened. I know this is not the best solution, but I don't see any other options other than replaying the event, which would cause problems for many players.
Thetruebeast&Xbabydom will receive 50 platinum for their 3rd place (less than original since they did lose a match)
Serancha&Ravagerx will receive 35 platinum for their 4th place (no change to them)
Lordstephen&Vistrix will receive 25 platinum (due to mistake on my part and the fact that they did beat the 3rd place team)
Again, apologies for this mess.

I hope I have answered many of your questions regarding the event. I stand by the decisions I have made, even if it leaves some players unhappy. I have made some mistakes, but I believe most of the fights were unaffected and players still had fun competing. I want to congratulate the winners again, prizes will be granted in time. If you disagree with me, any decisions or outcome of your match, please send me a PM and don't go on flaming in this thread.

Note: Don't ever organize an event without access to a computer as it will lack significant organization. Will not attempt such again.

**Mysticaleagle** · 04-08-2013, 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by Genuinous

I see many unhappy people flaming here, so let me write down what and why happened, as well as clarifying scores on the brackets. (updated brackets with scores)

Regarding warrior v warrior in 2v2
The match between Paulsebi&Xcs and Boss&Ramyunstyle left everyone unhappy. I understand, that this was a bad match. I should have realized that if 2 warriors on each team get matched up, that will not end. Ever. Yet I ignored this, because I believed, and I still do, that while 2 warriors are difficult to beat, a well balanced team can and will beat them. Not knowing the specific classes, I allowed this match to happen. You guys kept fighting for about 15 minutes or so, before I interfered and told you to dismiss your pets. We have done this change in the previous event (with Delphina around), and in 1v1 situations this helped to end the fight. I have no intention to rush a fight, but anything over 10 minutes without any hint of ending is just too long. Other players want to compete as well and are eager to participate. While it is certainly not ideal to end your fight and get rid of your pets, I hoped that similarly to a 1v1 situation, it would resolve problems. But it didn't. After another 15 minutes of going nowhere, nobody ran out of mana or got near to die without having heal ready and back to full hp, I had to make a decision. I could watch your guys fight for 2 hours and hope that something would happen or change the rules and conditions and allow everyone else to complete their matches. I tried to be open with you by making suggestions on how to change the fight in order to get a result (ie the suggestions made by me), but they were not quite welcomed, thus I decided that you should fight without heal. This was not an ideal solution, but a fair one. All four of you had heal skill and all four of you lost it. While some of your builds certainly relied more heavily on heal than others, I thought this was the best solution available. Also I allowed you to play until 3 wins, hoping to eliminate randomness better. I hope you will understand why I had to do this, even though it is a bad solution. Apologies for allowing warrior teams, should not have happened.

Regarding rules and rule changes
All players are expected to have read and understood the rules for the event. If you sign up, I assume you know what you are signing up for. This is a basic requirement that I will hold for all participants, not knowing the rules doesn't mean they don't apply for you. You can't possibly expect me to remind every player of the rules. If and when rules have to be changed, I will either announce them in the forums if it applies to everyone (ie hooks banned), or only to the relevant players (ie the above situation). Also in no post I have ever mentioned warm up matches and such.

Regarding restarting matches
Let me clear this up, as there was some annoyance about this as well. Matches will be restarted if the organizer judges that there is something wrong and that it is obviously and heavily effecting the outcome of the fight. These conditions will always be judged by the organizer who overview the match, as he is the only one who can make the relevant decisions.
Example for matches which can be restarted:
-Skills hitting organizer (easy to see)
-Early starts (match will be stopped right away)
-Skill fail right at the start of a match (this can be easily seen and justified by organizer)
Example for matches which will not be restarted:
-Skill fails (it is hard to judge if a skill really failed or not, also we all know skills fail when they are cast at the time you are stunned) exception above
-Lag (it is a serious issue, but again, cannot be confirmed)
As you can see, matches can be restarted when there is a clear reason, which the organizer can justify. Any other reason will not be accepted. Also I would like to say, that I will trust the decisions made by Dupstepticons to be correct, but I cannot verify it as I have not seen those matches. I can only speak for matches which I have overseen and in those I went by the above mentioned principles.

Regarding the match between Lordstephen&Vistix vs Thetruebeast&Xbabydom
I have made a crucial mistake here, by advancing the wrong team. Lord and Vis should have advanced to the second round, but by accident I have advanced Beast and Baby. However after advancing Beast and Baby fought hard to achieve third place, so I will not take it away from them. After realizing my mistake, Lord and Vis fought against Serancha&Ravagerx in a best of 5 match and they lost 3-1. This was the bronze match, that might have happened. I know this is not the best solution, but I don't see any other options other than replaying the event, which would cause problems for many players.
Thetruebeast&Xbabydom will receive 50 platinum for their 3rd place (less than original since they did lose a match)
Serancha&Ravagerx will receive 35 platinum for their 4th place (no change to them)
Lordstephen&Vistrix will receive 25 platinum (due to mistake on my part and the fact that they did beat the 3rd place team)
Again, apologies for this mess.

I hope I have answered many of your questions regarding the event. I stand by the decisions I have made, even if it leaves some players unhappy. I have made some mistakes, but I believe most of the fights were unaffected and players still had fun competing. I want to congratulate the winners again, prizes will be granted in time. If you disagree with me, any decisions or outcome of your match, please send me a PM and don't go on flaming in this thread.

Note: Don't ever organize an event without access to a computer as it will lack significant organization. Will not attempt such again.

Must have taken a long time to write all this just for some unhappy people. Anyways, well said.

**TuMadreee** · 04-08-2013, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by Mysticaleagle

TuMadreee! Gratz man! Am proud of ya.

Haha thanks Mystic, means lots (:

And Genui, I am pretty sure that I fought 4 battles, not 3 as shown by the brackets.

Also, thanks for being the organizer for all my games, I like your counts better

-tuma

**Genuinous** · 04-08-2013, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by TuMadreee

Haha thanks Mystic, means lots (:

And Genui, I am pretty sure that I fought 4 battles, not 3 as shown by the brackets.

Also, thanks for being the organizer for all my games, I like your counts better

-tuma

Realized the brackets didn't update, done now

**Paulsebi** · 04-08-2013, 08:39 AM

LOL at "Must have taken a long time to write all this just for some unhappy people"...... actually 4 players are unhappy because of this, last minute rule change has been applied for the game : 2 warrs vs 2 warrs, which was the only fight having same classes.

And still : rules have been changed and we were in position to fight without heal.... consider a rogue without using one spell and then speak about this...

I will not post anything else, everything was said.... and ye, other fights were ok cause the rules didn't changed.

Thanks again to all participants and to the winners!

**Natrich** · 04-08-2013, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Genuinous

Regarding restarting matches
Let me clear this up, as there was some annoyance about this as well. Matches will be restarted if the organizer judges that there is something wrong and that it is obviously and heavily effecting the outcome of the fight. These conditions will always be judged by the organizer who overview the match, as he is the only one who can make the relevant decisions.
Example for matches which can be restarted:
-Skills hitting organizer (easy to see)

I'm glad that you know this rule. The other guy must have conveniently forgot about this

**Psykopathic** · 04-08-2013, 11:38 AM

Yeah. Dubstep said flat out I blasted him when match was over and didnt restart us. Not complaining too much cuz due to the warrior vs warrior match length I had to leave for work at that point anyways. But I did wanna make sure that it being overlooked was noticed. Either way thanks for the tourney and I'm ready for the next one. Lol

**ishyrionek** · 04-08-2013, 12:24 PM

So what classes won? What classes had 2,3,4 places?

**Genuinous** · 04-08-2013, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by ishyrionek

So what classes won? What classes had 2,3,4 places?

1, 2, 4 were warrior, rogue
3 was warrior and mage

Sorry i dont know every players class so i cant attempt to write it down. Next time I'll include it in sign ups

**Serancha** · 04-08-2013, 02:48 PM

I want to say thank you to everyone involved. Rav and I had some great matchups and it was a real pleasure to fight all our opponents. I know the match with Hardek and Tuma, especially, will be remembered for a very long time by everyone who was there.

Gen, thanks for the explanation of things, I know it's a lot of work putting these events together, and the effort is appreciated. We're all human after all, and hopefully learn from our mistakes to make better and better events in the future. These tournaments add so much to the game, that I hope to see many more of them in the future!

**TuMadreee** · 04-08-2013, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by Serancha

I want to say thank you to everyone involved. Rav and I had some great matchups and it was a real pleasure to fight all our opponents. I know the match with Hardek and Tuma, especially, will be remembered for a very long time by everyone who was there.

Gen, thanks for the explanation of things, I know it's a lot of work putting these events together, and the effort is appreciated. We're all human after all, and hopefully learn from our mistakes to make better and better events in the future. These tournaments add so much to the game, that I hope to see many more of them in the future!

^good fight indeed Serancha, there were many other close fights too. Yes, more tournaments would be great, and i hope next time there will be live streaming for those who want to watch all fights (:

**Samhayne** · 04-09-2013, 11:18 AM

Thanks Genu for putting this together and running it. At the end of the day, we're happy you guys can make something out of the current pvp system (that is not set up to support such tournaments).

Just because we're doing Platinum prizes doesn't mean that we're managing the tournament, rules or any of it. Genu has shown his willingness and ability to set these up and we really thank him and everyone involved, for the onerous task of doing so.

Platinum prizes have been granted.

**GoodSyntax** · 04-09-2013, 11:49 AM

Hardek and Tuma, congrats on the win! I've run across both of you and it is indeed very well deserved!

Also, a big congratulations and thanks to Genuinous. I have attempted to put together a couple of PvP tournaments, and I can say that it is not an easy feat. There is a lot of work and preparation that goes into it that no one will ever see or realize.

Could things have gone a bit more smoothly...sure. But, after putting together a few contests of my own, I must say that no matter how well you plan and try to organize, things go askew. I would suggest that the most vocal ones on this thread attempt to put a similar contest together, and you will quickly develop an appreciation for the effort and challenge involved.

Congratulations to everyone involved, and I look forward to the next tourney!