What would REALLY improve Star Legends? (Discussion)

[Cahaun]

What keeps a game interesting? What keeps people wanting to play more of a game? I believe the view of what makes a game stay alive longer has been skewed recently as I noticed many people propose that a longer grind in the end game of the new expansion will keep people from being bored as fast as if a person with a smaller grind will get bored faster. Is this REALLY the solution? Maybe we are looking at the wrong things at what keeps a person interested?
Since the cap is soon enough to be 51, I have decided to open up this discussion where we can all discuss on what will REALLY improve the game. Below will be the discussions that will go over different areas of the game like endgame, casual gameplay, merchanting, and miscellaneous dungeons and things that break away from making a game too linear in style.

Discussion #1: Comparing the prosperous Golden Age of PL to SL (Endgame)


If you were in PL during the level 50 cap, you'd know that it was like a golden age compared to where it's at now. I myself joined PL during this time and I still consider it the best version of PL because of how it captured interests for casual and people who wanted to be "elite". How was it so interesting back then? How was its endgame a lot better than the kind we now have set up in Star Legends? Star Legends is almost at the same level that PL was, but the game feels like it fails to keep itself alive unless injected by level caps while Pocket Legends was able to stay heavily populated over time... Why?

Here's my thoughts on this. What keeps a game interesting? Content. Content can come in many forms in a game and can appeal to many different types of players in the game. So what did Pocket Legends have at its 50 cap that made it so awesome? I can tell you it wasn't the grind that was making so intriguing at the time (If anyone can remember the endless Plasma Pyramid runs, you'd now what I mean about the grind at the time).

Here's an example of something that SL could benefit from: Shadow Caves.
This was something that was released during the level 50 cap as a content update without rushing ahead and adding another level cap. When it was released, the dungeon was only accessible to people who fought and defeated the Galactic Overlord in Victory Lap which was only accessible to those who defeated the Overlord in the last level of the AO3 dungeon which was only accessible by defeating every single boss and dungeon one at a time. Even then, the portal never showed up every time so it was harder to access the Shadow Caves back then. So what did the Shadow Caves provide to the current level cap that would make the game interesting? Content. It provided the rare Shadow Sets which were spiffy at the time and very, very hard to get. What did this dungeon accomplish? It provided the really hardcore players with a challenge to collect the pieces of armor inside the dungeon. This was a successful content update in my opinion and really kept the game fresh beyond what it already was at the time. How can we implement this in SL? The devs have announced hardcore content in the new cap, and what I'm hoping to see is something similar to the way that the Shadow Caves has in the level 50 cap.

Let's back up into what really made the endgame during this cap the best: Cyber Quests.
Being level 50 wasn't what people considered elite nor grinding xp being any type of entertainment at the time. So what was giving people a good challenge to show off and feel good about themselves at endgame? Cyber Quests! These quests took dedication and teamwork, and were only accessible once a player has reached the level cap of 50. What made it slightly more interesting was that you had to explore Crush the Keeper in the Cyber Ghosts room for the mysterious cyber ghost who'd give you the Quests for the Cyber Set. So how can SL be made interesting over a longer time? Adding something just like the Cyber Quests will absolutely keep people playing even after they cap a character. They may even want to collect all three and try and have the entire bunch of them.

These are the two main things that made the level 50 cap of Pocket Legends have a longer freshness time then Star Legends is right now with the measly cap-a-toon-and-quit style that just about everyone is now doing. Star Legends needs more content in endgame terms, and I believe the endgame style that the old PL had will be perfect.


What do you all think about this here? What do you think will keep SL fresh over a longer period for people who focus mainly on endgame?

Discussion #2: Comparing the adventurous side of PL to SL (Side Dungeons)


This will be a small discussion for the day today. Yesterday, I emphasized the need of content that would keep a game fresh over a longer period of time for the players that focused more on the endgame of the cap. Today will be for the group of people who like to detach themselves from the straight path and into detours along the route for a sense of adventure.

At the time of the Golden Age in Pocket Legends, the players there had an immense world to explore. All of the areas of Alterra was free for them to explore, but some areas were more suitable for better equipped players at higher levels. This meant that any player at level 18 can choose to venture forth into the beginning of the Crypts if they didn't feel like going into the Balefort Castle at the time, go and join friends at any other dungeon that they were on, or go into the Wylwood Forest that was the side dungeon.

This was all trapped by the update that forced people to only be in the dungeons that are at their levels or below, but it left a mark that showed how open the world could have been. Let's look back and I'll point out in better detail of the things that I wanted to show.

Side dungeons was a part that I pointed out along with the feel of how unlinear games can be more intriguing than games that just trap you in a single corridor. Star Legends is a heavily linear game currently, and when even compared to the current version of Pocket Legends and Arcane Legends, it really shows what it is lacking. Side dungeons are ways for people to "escape" from the linear path that a game has and are sources of even more content that can contribute further into keeping a game fresh.

The side dungeons that Pocket Legends had at the Golden Age were and still are good places to go to if you ever wanted to mix things up after a while. Forest Haven and the Dark Forest both had some interesting places called "Hidden Paths" which would lead you into small dungeons that have mini mobs and bosses in it like Meathead's Deli, the Skeleton Crypts, Kings' Forest, et cetera. The Dark Forest town even had a "Hidden Grate" that a person can just enter and explore like the ones in the Base Camp in the mountains and the rusty grate found near Balefort Castle. The best thing that Pocket Legends had that was the pathway between Balefort Castle and the Crypts where there were enemies along the trail in the forest along with the Forbidden Tomb as yet another side dungeon to explore while on the way to the cemetery.

Arcane Legends had a small but really good way at adding some side activities to a person's schedule which was the addition of the Bard whose stories where daily mini-dungeon fights, the timed crypt/tomb runs, and the Hauntlet. The levels even had a few extra areas so that it wasn't just a straight line all the time.

In order to keep the people of Star Legends interested, we need something to spark a sense of adventure as they explore a seemingly more open area, give them a new place to relax from the main levels, or by utilizing the side dungeons as a way to make more quests and items for people to spend time completing and collecting.

How do you think side dungeons can be implemented into Star Legends? How about having some different dungeons at the same level branch out and connect and intertwine with different ones so that the story could be different by how a person progresses through the game? How about having the USC Blackstar being more explorable with air shafts, maintenance halls, and such? I'd like to hear what you all think on this.

Discussion #3: Item Uniqueness in Star Legends compared to other methods used in Pocket Legends, Dark Legends, and Arcane Legends

Since this is something that pops up in all of the games' discussions, I'll take examples of how the devs made items unique in different games while keeping the same base object. In this discussion, we will discuss over the issue that has popped up here and there over the time of SL's life and became a major issue when the second part of the Scorn Trilogy came out.

Main Issue for Discussion
This one is a bit different than the rest so I'll start off by talking about this in the way as I see it.
Before the Shipyard came out for a few months... (TBC)

[Cahaun]

I'll be adding different discussions over different areas to see what we all think of them, but right now the first discussion is about endgame and how I think the level 50 cap in Pocket Legends has many things that SL can use to succeed at staying fresh for people who focus on endgame even more.

[Battlegrinder]

I think you hit the nail on the head with this post. Alien Oasis is still one of my favorite parts of PL, for three main reasons. First there was the stuff like the Cyber Quests and Shadow Caves, like you mentioned. Another thing that I really liked was the wide variety of items and equipment that you could equip, all of which were perfectly viable loadouts and could be customized to fit your playstyle (something SL is sorely lacking). The last thing that I liked about AO was that the levels had a cohesive storyline to tie the expansions together.

The biggest problem SL has is that obtaining the best items is all about grinding. In order to get your hands on top tier gear, you have grind for months to get enough cash to buy them normally or have a chance at getting them via a drop, instead of being able to earn them (like you did with Cyber Quests and SL weekly quests). I would be ok with that system, if not for the fact that the chances of getting a Pink drop (even with luck elixirs) are pathetically low, so low that it's almost not worth buying elixirs, and if you don't like/can't afford elixirs (for example, I avoid elixirs because I like knowing that I obtained every item I own via my own efforts), you have almost no chance to get pinks because the drop rates are so low and because you get very few credits from liquidating items that saving up to buy the best gear is virtually impossible. You can't even buy credits with plat, because the prices are so high that you'd have to spend thirty or forty dollars to get enough credits for a full suit. And since the plat store hasn't gotten new gear since Voleria, you can't get a version of elite gear that way either.

The SL business model and drop system are severely out of whack, and could use some adjustment. To fix it I would suggest taking another page out of the AO3 playbook. AO3 had three different pink sets, cyber, Void, and Hate. Cyber could be earned via the Cyber quests, but the other two had to been obtained via grinding. Cyber was a middle of the road, jack of all roles kind of set, while the other two were more specialized (Hate was better at damage and Void was best for tanking, IIRC). SL could have something similar, with a great set that any player could earn via a quest, with another set or two that were drop only and had their stats tweaked to be better for a certain role.

[Exion]

A longer grind will not make sl more interesting, it never did.
The "elite" players who are asking for more exp will cap within a few days and it won't matter how high the exp needed wil be.

I haven't played pl that much but the examples that you bring up are music to my ears, that would indeed make me log in a hell of a lot longer then the 10 min a week that I do now.

[Cahaun]

I think you hit the nail on the head with this post. Alien Oasis is still one of my favorite parts of PL, for three main reasons. First there was the stuff like the Cyber Quests and Shadow Caves, like you mentioned. Another thing that I really liked was the wide variety of items and equipment that you could equip, all of which were perfectly viable loadouts and could be customized to fit your playstyle (something SL is sorely lacking). The last thing that I liked about AO was that the levels had a cohesive storyline to tie the expansions together.

The biggest problem SL has is that obtaining the best items is all about grinding. In order to get your hands on top tier gear, you have grind for months to get enough cash to buy them normally or have a change at getting them via a drop, instead of being able to earn them (like you did with Cyber Quests and SL weekly quests). I would be ok with that system, if not for the fact that the chances of getting a Pink drop (even with luck elixirs) are pathetically low, so low that it's almost not worth buying elixirs, and if you don't like/can't afford elixirs (for example, I avoid elixirs because I like knowing that I obtained every item I own via my own efforts), you have almost no chance to get pinks because the drop rates are so low and because you get very few credits from liquidating items that saving up to buy the best gear is virtually impossible. You can't even buy credits with plat, because the prices are so high that you'd have to spend thirty or forty dollars to get enough credits for a full suit. And since the plat store hasn't gotten new gear since Voleria, you can't get a version of elite gear that way either.

The SL business model and drop system are severely out of whack, and could use some adjustment. To fix it I would suggest taking another page out of the AO3 playbook. AO3 had three different pink sets, cyber, Void, and Hate. Cyber could be earned via the Cyber quests, but the other two had to been obtained via grinding. Cyber was a middle of the road, jack of all roles kind of set, while the other two were more specialized (Hate was better at damage and Void was best for tanking, IIRC). SL could have something similar, with a great set that any player could earn via a quest, with another set or two that were drop only and had their stats tweaked to be better for a certain role.

There are so many other different things that I have planned for discussions, but you brought up one of the topics that would've also helped SL out like a variety of items that dropped in Alien Oasis. AO3 boasted (and still does) the most variety of items including the drops that we consider "junk drops" in SL. The purples and greens were usable in AO3, but not as good as a legendary would. Technically, AO3 has four sets (Mystery, Cyber, Hate/Death/Keeper, Void/Cosmos/Rift), but the sheer difference in the perks they provide make them all unique. Mystery has an enormous boost to health regeneration while you described what made the others unique.

Let's keep up our discussion on end game for a little bit more and I'll bring up the second discussion later tonight.

[Cahaun]

Anyone remember the old Star Legend crafting? The recipes were nicely priced while Distruptive Nanites and other crafting pieces were the difficult things you had to gather? The best part was that you had to cap at 21 to be able to use them, but you could casually cap your toon and hunt for the recipe items with friends. Not only that, but the sheer amount of items that you were able to craft was excellent compared to what we have now.
Maybe we should be able to use all of the worthless junk to build them into major pieces and eventually into upgrades for armor or weapons, or even small space cruisers.

[Battlegrinder]

Anyone remember the old Star Legend crafting? The recipes were nicely priced while Distruptive Nanites and other crafting pieces were the difficult things you had to gather? The best part was that you had to cap at 21 to be able to use them, but you could casually cap your toon and hunt for the recipe items with friends. Not only that, but the sheer amount of items that you were able to craft was excellent compared to what we have now.

SL crafting actually got a little better (at least as varity goes) as the game went on. Initially you could only craft a handful of weapons, but in the later upgrades you could also craft armor and class weapons. I do miss being able to craft implants or customize a rifle to fit my class, but the plat implants and drops covered that part on their own. I do hope that the new cap includes updated crafting recipes.

Maybe we should be able to use all of the worthless junk to build them into major pieces and eventually into upgrades for armor or weapons, or even small space cruisers.

I think I suggested this a while ago as part of general suggestion on upgrading weapons, but I'm not sure. It definitely sounds like a good idea.

The biggest problem that STS games have with crafting is that the crafting items are only useful and accessible to a very small portion of the community. For example, PL has craftable items in Forest Haven (only useful to twinks thanks to to recipe cost/rarity), Balefort Sewers, and Nuri's Hallow, but the cost of crafting is so high (between buying the recipes and the standard items used in the recipe) that you'd be better off saving you money to buy better weapons from the next section of the game. I don't mind having item crafting be difficult, but I do mind having it be impossible. A full set of Custom Battleshell plating costs around 200k, not counting the cost of custom weapons. That's a lot of money for non-hardcore players. And unlike PL, you can't buy the recipes with plat (and as I mentioned above, SL's plat-to-credit exchange rate is so lopsided as to make purchasing credits foolish), so custom armor is virtually impossible to obtain for the average player.

If STS made crafting more accessable to the average player and let you use surplus crafting materials to make weapon and armor upgrades, I think players would be very happy. In fact, I wouldn't mind if STS decided to charge you for that ability (within reason). I used to play Crimecraft Gangwars (then I unlocked the TF2 cross-promotion hat and quit), and they had a similar system to what I propose. Players could purchase a license to craft weapons, upgrade parts, and armor. The license was a one-time fee, and after that they could craft to their hearts content. If STS created a similar system, I'd gladly pay for it.

[Cahaun]

I think that, in a most simple idea, giving the random recipe items with a use would make the game better. There's soo many items dropping except only a few are actually going to be used while the others only take up space and leave people with full inventories.

[Cahaun]

Discussion #2 added up for ideas. Today it'll be about Side Dungeons and how it was successfully used in Pocket Legends along with a small example on how STS used it to make Arcane Legends' side dungeons even more unique.

Don't worry about posting your opinion on this matter! It's an open discussion, and any of the earlier topics can be brought up as many of the topics will have ways to connect!

[Battlegrinder]

I think SL is already heading toward a more PL style side dungeon experience. We had the UCS Savant during the lead-up to Crusade, and we we also had STS-25 Tarasa, which was sort of side dungeon/boss gauntlet. It also sounds like they might be doing a full on elite dungeon in the Tarasa expansion (hardcore content = hardcore dungeon?).

In fact, side dungeons are an even better idea for SL, since they could in theory let you explore other facets of the SL story (yes, SL has a plot that encompasses more than the individual expansions. I'll be posting my analysis of it whenever Lore Thread 2.0 goes live). For example, how are the mega-corps coping with the arrival of the Scorn? Have pirates started taking advantage of the chaos to launch more raids, or have they rallied around the flag and joined with the UC military to hold off the Scorn? What happened on Voleria and Numa after the Scorn invaded? There are so many possibilities that could be explored in those side campaigns, and its a shame STS hasn't decided to try and answer them (especially since such a side dungeon would have a lot of copy-and-paste elements to it, something that SL has quite a bit of already, and is something of a STS strong suit. No offense).

Side dungeons are something of a missed experience for SL, but hopefully STS will continue to improve as time goes on.

[Cahaun]

I really liked how PL had a story to it, but it seemed like they frogot all about the energy-barrier-is-failing-across-Alterra-and-ancient-warlords-and-evil-are-using-this-to-invade main plot. I really thought that the first Forest Haven was the best dungeon they ever had next to the other story driven ones like Alien Oasis because it felt like it was a part of the overall story arc of the game. The new Forest Haven just destroyed the beginning plot along with the new tutorial, and the new caps coming out just seem to be more like random events that have no connection to the overall plot to the game's story.
In Arcane Legends, I was actually suprised by how really well done the story was done in the beginning as it was multiple events (The mines and goblins, necromancers and corrupted thug bandits) all connected to a great evil (Bael) who happens to be a servant to an even greater evil (Demon Lord). I wished that the fight with the Demon Lord would've been the FINAL boss while having the Demon Lord just puppeteering all kinds of events around the place. It felt like that main story arc was rushed and ended waaay too soon for them to take that story to its greatest potential.
What SL needs to do is avoid too many random dungeons along the main spine that aren't a part of the main story. Slouch-o Studios would've made an awesome side dungeon while most likely having a dungeon that would forewarn a growing threat from the Scorn who would be mobilizing in great forces for an invasion, a Vular Hive awakening part 2 as it has happened once already in the earlier years of colonization, or rising controversy by social groups That'd eventually lead to the attack on the Shipyard. What I can see soon is a revisit to the Numa Prime ruins where there could possibly be a discovery of Riven Civilization (There was an old Riven golem defending the ruins. Doesn't that sound fishy?)

[Battlegrinder]

What SL needs to do is avoid too many random dungeons along the main spine that aren't a part of the main story. Slouch-o Studios would've made an awesome side dungeon while most likely having a dungeon that would forewarn a growing threat from the Scorn who would be mobilizing in great forces for an invasion, a Vular Hive awakening part 2 as it has happened once already in the earlier years of colonization, or rising controversy by social groups That'd eventually lead to the attack on the Shipyard. What I can see soon is a revisit to the Numa Prime ruins where there could possibly be a discovery of Riven Civilization (There was an old Riven golem defending the ruins. Doesn't that sound fishy?)

I'm not entirely sure that the Slouch-O campaign wasn't part of the main spine (I really need to get that "SL Meta-plot" theory thread posted soon). The "Vular reawakening", in both Delta 7 and The Hive, plus they Vular are also active on Tarasa. I do think it would be nice if we'd seen some hints at upcoming story lines earlier, which would have helped to tie the various expansions together. Maybe have various military figures comment that the reason they were hiring mercs was because their own troops were busy dealing with resurgent Vular/rioting cultists/ect, or have the Vular cultists from shipyard show up earlier and give you quests dealing with trying to protect the Vular (like having you gather evidence of what Cycorp was doing with the Vular, that kind of thing). Build them up as this space-PETA type organization, and then have the Shipyard event reveal who they really are.
But all in all, I like the SL story. Since STS didn't explain it outright like they did in PL and AL, it lets you piece it together yourself, which is much more rewarding experience.

[gison]

Better content and not 10 month update?
Getting rid of scammers?
More events?
Better crafting?
More equipments?
No more recycled stuff?

[Rittik]

See cahaun i know SL needs content badly but the thing is STSbclearly mentioned they are loojing forward to AL clearly now. Which means SL wont really have so much content we guys are wishing for. Still i totally agree with the points you wrote on the OP would make SL interresting. Even the SL storyline is good STS should keep it alive.

-Rik[Rittik]

[Xifus]

I agree with most of the posts above. The plot in PVE is so fragmented and hard to follow that it actually takes away from the gameplay for me. If there was some in-depth backstory, it would improve PVE ten-fold. Slouch-O would have made an excellent side mission; "Put down the robot insurgency!"
Instead it and the shipyard both feel like hiccups in the flow.

Obviously, I love the idea of side quests, but I love the whole quest-specific-gear idea even more. Whether it's vanities or "T.5" gear, I believe that side-quest specific rewards is one aspect of SL that STS could really impress with by expanding.

The only other aspect I would like to see added would be PVP rewards. Let me preface this by saying that I am in no way a hardcore PVPer, and I realize that might discredit me with some. However, I do think that the more people are involved with PVP, the stronger the draw to PVP. I mean, you have to have twice as many people to play PVP as you do PVE. Now leaderboards are awesome, but there seems to me that there is no incentive for most to start PVP because most will not be listed on those same leaderboards. However, if there were PVP-specific rewards, it would encourage more people to "grind" pvp for gear to make them better. More people pvping equals more noob fodder for the leaderboards watchers, so their numbers will grow as well. As for the PVP purist who is in it just for the human opponent, more people equal more challengers. It's a win-win-win.

Just my two cents.

[Cahaun]

I agree with most of the posts above. The plot in PVE is so fragmented and hard to follow that it actually takes away from the gameplay for me. If there was some in-depth backstory, it would improve PVE ten-fold. Slouch-O would have made an excellent side mission; "Put down the robot insurgency!"
Instead it and the shipyard both feel like hiccups in the flow.

Obviously, I love the idea of side quests, but I love the whole quest-specific-gear idea even more. Whether it's vanities or "T.5" gear, I believe that side-quest specific rewards is one aspect of SL that STS could really impress with by expanding.

The only other aspect I would like to see added would be PVP rewards. Let me preface this by saying that I am in no way a hardcore PVPer, and I realize that might discredit me with some. However, I do think that the more people are involved with PVP, the stronger the draw to PVP. I mean, you have to have twice as many people to play PVP as you do PVE. Now leaderboards are awesome, but there seems to me that there is no incentive for most to start PVP because most will not be listed on those same leaderboards. However, if there were PVP-specific rewards, it would encourage more people to "grind" pvp for gear to make them better. More people pvping equals more noob fodder for the leaderboards watchers, so their numbers will grow as well. As for the PVP purist who is in it just for the human opponent, more people equal more challengers. It's a win-win-win.

Just my two cents.

So how were you wanting the PvP rewards to go? Are they going to be based on Score, kills, deaths, time spent in PvP, total matches played, or with a different type of currency that is rewarded to players in a match so they cab spend them at terminals for items?

[Xifus]

As far as I can figure, the most balanced PVP reward system would be either:
1)A PVP currency where participation garners amount "x", 1st in kills would get amount "x(4)", 2nd gets amount "x(3)", and so on.
2)A drop-based system along the same lines, where everyone receives a uncommon(orange?) PVP drop and has a different base percentage for dropping a green/purple/pink respectively, and there is "+ x%" chance of a pink PVP-gear drop for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.

All of this would require PVP to be balanced between classes(I'm not saying it is or isn't, just saying it would need to be), as well as involve STS creating a whole new set(s) of PVP gear for each class along with a scaling model for the size of each PVP room (i.e., if it is 2v2, you need to scale back reward percentages/multipliers vs. a full room.)

Anyway, like I said, would LOVE to see this or something similar implemented in SL.

[Cahaun]

As far as I can figure, the most balanced PVP reward system would be either:
1)A PVP currency where participation garners amount "x", 1st in kills would get amount "x(4)", 2nd gets amount "x(3)", and so on.
2)A drop-based system along the same lines, where everyone receives a uncommon(orange?) PVP drop and has a different base percentage for dropping a green/purple/pink respectively, and there is "+ x%" chance of a pink PVP-gear drop for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.

All of this would require PVP to be balanced between classes(I'm not saying it is or isn't, just saying it would need to be), as well as involve STS creating a whole new set(s) of PVP gear for each class along with a scaling model for the size of each PVP room (i.e., if it is 2v2, you need to scale back reward percentages/multipliers vs. a full room.)

Anyway, like I said, would LOVE to see this or something similar implemented in SL.

That's quite an interesting idea, but I'm not sure about how the drops will work because of the possibility of people unbalancing teams just to farm items from people. The best thing SL can do that'll avoid that is to have the type of PvP DL has in which the teams are balanced first before a match begins.

[Battlegrinder]

So...is this discussion still active, or what?

[Cahaun]

So...is this discussion still active, or what?

It's still up. I've been working on my computer a bit so I haven't posted another topic for us to discuss on.