no crowd control skills?
no crowd control skills?
Fireball is your crowd control
One won't handle all the mobs..Originally Posted by Linkincena
Fireball is your crowd control
I'm a big fan of mage in all mmorpg, and do have similar requirements such as urs when selecting skills for toon
Given the current skill set, other classes of character, spell slots availability, equipments, weapons and experience from my existing mage toon, I'm more skewed towards crowd control & support role. Tanking role should be left to warrior - high hp and armor. Single target DPS should be left to rogue - high dex, frequent critical. Thus, AoE role has to be sorcerer. Some might argue that sorcerer is able to fit in the DPS role, but you'll need very high critical % to make lightning worthwhile. Even with ribbit pet, the window frame for a crit buff would only last for 3 seconds, which is pretty short considering most sorcerers skills requires charging to be effective.
It is also not possible to fulfill all 4 options, with a single skill sets (4 spells + pet). I wouldn't commend much on PvP since I considered myself amature in AL's PvP system.
Generally, I would only consider these skills - fireball (4/5), shield (4/5), heal (3/5), lightning (5/5), timeshift (5/5), frost (4/5), gale (least favourite):
Fireball - hands down, best initiation skill for mage for PvE mobs (not elite boss). I skipped scroch, since the 25% miss rate only lasts for 5 seconds, and you already have a knockdown. Having both is overlapping. This skill is a must have against PvE mobs. With such big AoE, its pretty much guaranteed to hit big group of mobs/players.
Shield - It overcomes the 'squishiness' of mage. A must have skill for PvP & Elite bosses. Although the invulnerability option requires charging, I find it very useful when ur slowed/locked/within the range of boss special skills. It's like an 'OH ****' button needed for survivalSpamming pots would not safe u from 1 hit KO from elite bosses.
Heal - The only class with the ability to heal mana. Yes, everybody favors this and assume you have this skill. Easier to join a party as it save team pots. With pure int build, usually a full mana recovery for warrior and rogue. Self cast heal by approximately 10% of ur mana - useful for solo as well. Time well with warrior's taunt to divert creeps aggro. I believe HoT (Heal over time) would be buffed in the future, since its a joke now, so I've skipped these for now. Otherwise, would be 5/5 upgrade. However, if your perception is to be a DPS role despite what I've mentioned above, you may choose to ignore this skill totally.
Lightning - I personally dislike this skill, since its very much luck base. First, the targeting system. The lightning doesn't always nuke the mob that u wanted (i.e. low hp). There's also occasions where the targeted creep died before ur lightning hits (team kills it), rendering it hitting targets that would not be killed in 1 lightning even with crit, thus, no chance to splash the lightning to other mobs. Second, to make the skill worthwhile, you'll need very high crit % to trigger the 250% damage. As mentioned above, the existing equipments doesn't warrant a consistent crit, in comparison with rogue with similar base items. Going for crit build would mean your forgoing on base damage. Third, low splashing percentage. The success of the splash very very much depends on being the last hitter and luck (25% even with charged lightning). BUT, it might be worthwhile in PvP and elite bosses, as its considered the highest single target spell for mage. I disagree with general consensus on stacked frost dot being the highest, as many bosses are immune to slow. Assuming future expansion would bring in better equips, I would consider crit build, since mage able to spam low cd spells and its fun to see lots of crit numbers.
Timeshift - Very useful spell for PvE mobs, even more so if u intend to solo mobs intensive areas. Usually cast after charged fireball, or dropping it first if the warrior is tanking the creeps. The main reason this skill was chosen was for its root ability, buying time for urself to cast other spells, block the route to prevent all damage focusing on tanker, as well as to drop a second clock. Secondary effect being DoT, especially in WT4, its amazing to see crit numbers from time DoT
Frost - Shines in handling small pool of elite mobs (not boss). Mob could be permanently freeze. DoT stacks for targets which can be slowed/stunned. 1/5 chance to slow big group of mobs, in fact the aoe is quite decent. Though, I dislike this portion - luck base (20% chance) to freeze groups of mobs. Fireball/Timeshift owns in terms of disabling creeps. I very much disagree with some posters on stacked frost being highest single damage skill, since most boss cannot be slowed/stunned - we're better off spamming skills due to how skill damage works. Not sure whether u could perma freeze players in PvP....lol. If it could, this is a must have skill for PvP build.
Gale - Haven't had an intensive tryout on this skill. Often used as a finisher after charged fireball, to push out creeps after clock's down, to spread out mobs (understand your radius and time it well). In short, crowd control. I reckon gale could be quite useful in PvE elite mobs for knockdown effect, and PvE boss, since it buffs the dodge rate and speed (knockdown effect useless here). Could be useful in PvP if you intend to go for lockdown build, forfeiting either shield/heal. Though, this skill doesn't blends well with others (eg. timeshift's root, fireball, ice) as it pushes and scatters away the targets from you.
All in all, I would suggest the following build (excluding gale):
1) PvP (including flag): shield, heal, fireball, lightning
I prioritise survivability over dps. You could carry out more task by surviving. Assuming ice does perma freeze, then by all means replace fire with ice.
If u reckon u need only either shield/heal, replace either with timeshift/gale -> what is ur agreed role in PvP?
2) PvE mobs (for tough creeps): shield, heal, fireball, timeshift
Sustaining team is more important here. Cumulative DPS from parties and leaving the DPS role to rogue works out better.
3) PvE mobs (for farming - if survivability isn't an issue; teaming with decent tanker): heal, timeshift, fireball, lightning
4) PvE elite boss (with mobs around): shield, heal, timeshift, fireball
Our role as crowd control shines here. Due to how the spell targeting system works, its better of doing aoe damage, rather than single DPS.
5) PvE elite boss (solely boss): shield, heal, timeshift, lightning
Again, survivability comes first. Assuming if you have decent parties, understand how the boss reacts and being able to kite the boss, you might consider using a well-placed timeshift like me. Overall, it does more damage than fireball, despite longer cooldown. However, if you feel the boss is too risky to stay near, by all means, replace ur build to option (4). If ur a risk taker like me, and enjoy challenging boss, stick with (5)
6) An all-rounder like what I'm currently using after much analysis: Upgrade these skills - fireball, timeshift, heal, shield, lightning
Less passives skills, but with wider skill sets, allowing you to tailor accordingly to the situation warranted.
With the recent buff on shield, it's a must for PvE elite maps and PvP (unless you have other strategies in mind).
I used heal in almost all my build as it saves the team heaps of pots, allows the team to progress at a faster pace (less worry about pots - in fact, some players are stingy in mana pots, thus not using skills unless their mana were being filled up...lol), and personally prefer to occupy the babysitter role and being a partial damager.
I've also dropped ice, due to the uncertain factor (20%) and the choice of other better skills.
I'm also in the midst of analysing the usefulness of gale, on the contrary of most beliefs (displacement of mobs). Fill further look into it after my exams. Perhaps others could give a more in-dept guide on using gale
Hope this post contributes to what you're looking for.
Last edited by Magician; 05-16-2013 at 12:50 PM.
Good post but i love Gale for PvE and farming cause its the only skill to give us a quicker movement and this lasts for 5 seconds, CD is 5,5 seconds. So you can nearly walk with 25% movementspeedincrease all the time if you want. I would love to use it in PvP too, cause every rogue/warrior catches up easily and you know gonna die... But shield/heal is mus have, so is fire/light and there are only 4 Skillbuttons, would love a 5.!I'm a big fan of mage in all mmorpg, and do have similar requirements such as urs when selecting skills for toon
Given the current skill set, other classes of character, spell slots availability, equipments, weapons and experience from my existing mage toon, I'm more skewed towards crowd control & support role. Tanking role should be left to warrior - high hp and armor. Single target DPS should be left to rogue - high dex, frequent critical. Thus, AoE role has to be sorcerer. Some might argue that sorcerer is able to fit in the DPS role, but you'll need very high critical % to make lightning worthwhile. Even with ribbit pet, the window frame for a crit buff would only last for 3 seconds, which is pretty short considering most sorcerers skills requires charging to be effective.
It is also not possible to fulfill all 4 options, with a single skill sets (4 spells + pet). I wouldn't commend much on PvP since I considered myself amature in AL's PvP system.
Generally, I would only consider these skills - fireball (4/5), shield (4/5), heal (3/5), lightning (5/5), timeshift (5/5), frost (4/5), gale (least favourite):
Fireball - hands down, best initiation skill for mage for PvE mobs (not elite boss). I skipped scroch, since the 25% miss rate only lasts for 5 seconds, and you already have a knockdown. Having both is overlapping. This skill is a must have against PvE mobs. With such big AoE, its pretty much guaranteed to hit big group of mobs/players.
Shield - It overcomes the 'squishiness' of mage. A must have skill for PvP & Elite bosses. Although the invulnerability option requires charging, I find it very useful when ur slowed/locked/within the range of boss special skills. It's like an 'OH ****' button needed for survival
Heal - The only class with the ability to heal mana. Yes, everybody favors this and assume you have this skill. Easier to join a party as it save team pots. With pure int build, usually a full mana recovery for warrior and rogue. Self cast heal by approximately 10% of ur mana - useful for solo as well. Time well with warrior's taunt to divert creeps aggro. I believe HoT (Heal over time) would be buffed in the future, since its a joke now, so I've skipped these for now. Otherwise, would be 5/5 upgrade. However, if your perception is to be a DPS role despite what I've mentioned above, you may choose to ignore this skill totally.
Lightning - I personally dislike this skill, since its very much luck base. First, the targeting system. The lightning doesn't always nuke the mob that u wanted (i.e. low hp). There's also occasions where the targeted creep died before ur lightning hits (team kills it), rendering it hitting targets that would not be killed in 1 lightning even with crit, thus, no chance to splash the lightning to other mobs. Second, to make the skill worthwhile, you'll need very high crit % to trigger the 250% damage. As mentioned above, the existing equipments doesn't warrant a consistent crit, in comparison with rogue with similar base items. Going for crit build would mean your forgoing on base damage. Third, low splashing percentage. The success of the splash very very much depends on being the last hitter and luck (25% even with charged lightning). BUT, it might be worthwhile in PvP and elite bosses, as its considered the highest single target spell for mage. I disagree with general consensus on stacked frost dot being the highest, as many bosses are immune to slow. Assuming future expansion would bring in better equips, I would consider crit build, since mage able to spam low cd spells and its fun to see lots of crit numbers.
Timeshift - Very useful spell for PvE mobs, even more so if u intend to solo mobs intensive areas. Usually cast after charged fireball, or dropping it first if the warrior is tanking the creeps. The main reason this skill was chosen was for its root ability, buying time for urself to cast other spells, block the route to prevent all damage focusing on tanker, as well as to drop a second clock. Secondary effect being DoT, especially in WT4, its amazing to see crit numbers from time DoT
Frost - Shines in handling small pool of elite mobs (not boss). Mob could be permanently freeze. DoT stacks for targets which can be slowed/stunned. 1/5 chance to slow big group of mobs, in fact the aoe is quite decent. Though, I dislike this portion - luck base (20% chance) to freeze groups of mobs. Fireball/Timeshift owns in terms of disabling creeps. I very much disagree with some posters on stacked frost being highest single damage skill, since most boss cannot be slowed/stunned - we're better off spamming skills due to how skill damage works. Not sure whether u could perma freeze players in PvP....lol. If it could, this is a must have skill for PvP build.
Gale - Haven't had an intensive tryout on this skill. Often used as a finisher after charged fireball, to push out creeps after clock's down, to spread out mobs (understand your radius and time it well). In short, crowd control. I reckon gale could be quite useful in PvE elite mobs for knockdown effect, and PvE boss, since it buffs the dodge rate and speed (knockdown effect useless here). Could be useful in PvP if you intend to go for lockdown build, forfeiting either shield/heal. Though, this skill doesn't blends well with others (eg. timeshift's root, fireball, ice) as it pushes and scatters away the targets from you.
All in all, I would suggest the following build (excluding gale):
1) PvP (including flag): shield, heal, fireball, lightning
I prioritise survivability over dps. You could carry out more task by surviving. Assuming ice does perma freeze, then by all means replace fire with ice.
If u reckon u need only either shield/heal, replace either with timeshift/gale -> what is ur agreed role in PvP?
2) PvE mobs (for tough creeps): shield, heal, fireball, timeshift
Sustaining team is more important here. Cumulative DPS from parties and leaving the DPS role to rogue works out better.
3) PvE mobs (for farming - if survivability isn't an issue; teaming with decent tanker): heal, timeshift, fireball, lightning
4) PvE elite boss (with mobs around): shield, heal, timeshift, fireball
Our role as crowd control shines here. Due to how the spell targeting system works, its better of doing aoe damage, rather than single DPS.
5) PvE elite boss (solely boss): shield, heal, timeshift, lightning
Again, survivability comes first. Assuming if you have decent parties, understand how the boss reacts and being able to kite the boss, you might consider using a well-placed timeshift like me. Overall, it does more damage than fireball, despite longer cooldown. However, if you feel the boss is too risky to stay near, by all means, replace ur build to option (4). If ur a risk taker like me, and enjoy challenging boss, stick with (5)
6) An all-rounder like what I'm currently using after much analysis: Upgrade these skills - fireball, timeshift, heal, shield, lightning
Less passives skills, but with wider skill sets, allowing you to tailor accordingly to the situation warranted.
With the recent buff on shield, it's a must for PvE elite maps and PvP (unless you have other strategies in mind).
I used heal in almost all my build as it saves the team heaps of pots, allows the team to progress at a faster pace (less worry about pots - in fact, some players are stingy in mana pots, thus not using skills unless their mana were being filled up...lol), and personally prefer to occupy the babysitter role and being a partial damager.
I've also dropped ice, due to the uncertain factor (20%) and the choice of other better skills.
I'm also in the midst of analysing the usefulness of gale, on the contrary of most beliefs (displacement of mobs). Fill further look into it after my exams. Perhaps others could give a more in-dept guide on using gale
Hope this post contributes to what you're looking for.
i had respec and using Fire 5/5 light 5/5 shield 4/5 heal 3/5 ... often pvp i get stun can't do alot .. 1 mage + 1 warrior i am dead
That is going to happen no matter what skills you have.
Another option is to use points on 5+ skills, youre not forced to stock on passives
I mostly pvp so I want my Passives but I honestly never thought of this. When I get unbanned ill be testing so ill take a few points out of Passives
I'm using an additional skill too. Been considering to replace lightning with gale...lightning kinda unpredictable for me, and many times it hits a dead creep (probably due to delay).Aside from the key upgrades (int+str), another reliable upgrade in the future probably will be the damage upgrade (5%). For now, I doubt we'll lose out much by skipping a passive upgrade since the difference is minimal.
The build ur using is the best, geezer. I have frost as an additional skill for mobs in regular elites though. You might try considering that. I've sacrificed one passive int, STR, for frost and instead going for INT. When the next level cap arrives, I'll be putting a STR passive, seeing as health is very important.
Imo Energ`s build is not the best hybrid build. Best for PvP? Yes, but too flawed at PvP.
Gaieje`s build (Level by Level Skill Guide thread) is the best I`ve seen so far and it still needs tweaking.
Only relying on fireball as crowd control skill is pretty much suicidal at elite maps,
especially when the plat shortcut known as nordia mines close their doors (remember, it`s only available for a limited time).
Since I got my mythic gun I sacrified some passive ability points and rather spent them on timeshift(2/5),fireball(4/5),Ice(2/5),Lightning(4/5),shield(4/5),heal(3/5), rest
int and str passives. I don`t need dex passive anymore thanks to the mythics huge damage.
I`m sure this build would work with the borean rifle as well.
Let me go more in-depth into the ways I use my build:
PvE
I use Fire, Ice, Shield, Heal for mobs and when the tank doesn't do its job well, Fire, Ice, Lightning, Heal for when I get a good tank, Fire, Lightning, Shield, Heal for the boss as survivability is more important than hitting hard for bosses.
FIRE: I use it because of its damage and amazing crowd control (cc). Its knockback and DoT is also very useful. This skill is the best of all, without a doubt.
ICE: I use it for mobs. Its cc is also good, and that's wat I use it for, not hitting very hard. Like the freezing and ice patches thing, they work well on large mobs.
LIGHTNING: I use this for PvE bosses or sometimes sacrifice it for shield at mobs (since lightning is useful for elite mobs as they're so dang tough). It hits hard, has a chance to AoE, and has amazing damage at crit.
SHIELD: I use it for elite maps when the tank isn't as good as its supposed to be or when I'm supposed to run across an area, like straight to the boss. Its useful for survivability. I also use it for bosses because survivability is more important than hard-hitting like I said above.
HEAL: Heal is heal. When ur gonna die, use it to save yourself and ur allies and save some health pots. Mana upgrade is decent when used on yourself and excellent for others.
I also use 5/5 INT passive.
PvP
I use Fireball, Lightning, Shield and Heal for PvP. The reason why I used 2 slots for defense is because survivability, as a mage, is more useful than hitting hard...seeing as we're so squishy.
My hybrid build:
Fire, Light, Shield, Heal.
So yeah, that's it, I'm finished. Hope you found this useful.
this is copy/paste from my other post/thread:
"my setup is 4fire, 4ice, 4heal, 4shield, 5int, 4dex, rifle
i made alot of testings and i had to come up with single build that is good for elites, soloing and pvp.
sure heal is not that good in elites since you pull agro, sure lightning is stronger in pvp than ice, sure clock is awsome in soloing wt4. But what with other skills on other maps/modes...
you need heal for soloing if you dont wanna spend lots of gold on medications, you also need heal in pvp to escape death. Heal is not that good in elite, but these other 2 scenarios need heal very much.
shield is not so important in soloing, but in pvp you must have it if you want to survive aimed shot, in elites also it comes handy to cast it when warrior fail agro. with shield you can also cast heal in elites, just cast shield and heal after it and warriors will have time to pull back agro from you.
ice is great aoe skill and very strong skill in pvp, i just love when i freez elite groups of monsters, or bunch of normal mode monsters in soloing. lightning for pvp would be stronger but than again i need cold for soloing and elites.
fireball is just fireball, no extra words needed :-)
clock... it is a great skill, couse you can easy solo wt4, but than again in hauntlet i found ice better use, in pvp clock is good to escape deadly situations, but i found out, for me, better way to escape... just run and shoot behind your beck and evenrually the follower will die :-)
cold is also better in elites couse you can freez those ranged monsters, not only slow their move.
all in all i tried lots of setups and this one is best for my playing style... maybe someone like to play dangerously without shield and heal, but i dont :-) maybe someone likes or is more used to clock than ice, but i dont :-) afterall it all depends of your playing style and what you like more. thats one of the reasons why this game is so good, you dont have ultimate, strongest setups, even gear is very adaptable to players styles, someone likes more health, someone more dps, someone more crit, someone more armor..."
There are some little changes since now im lvl 31, i have same skills but dex is 5 now and i have 4 str passive. And i dont solo hauntlet for kills now but kraken mines lvl3.
Last edited by Azemeazed; 05-26-2013 at 06:37 AM.
I think the only way to be effective in both PVP and PVE is to have a 5th skill at the expense of passive boosts.. I did that for about a week, had clock with root upgrade only - so damage was compromised a bit, but I was still effective in crowd control and could rock bosses butts!
The toeless smurf!
Yeah 5 skills are the way to go, even if you do sacrifice on one passive (which is not quite so important as compared to another skill).
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