Quote Originally Posted by Crowsfoot View Post
2) as a tank, I know I prefer mages to freeze archers and move on. Additionally, several players commented in my hypothetical build in game. Of them, none suggested I use ice patch so I will wait to try it during free respec.

3) darn, I already have lightning unlocked. I will do some tests and drop it if I find clocks working well enough in boss fights.

Yes, I will probably use shield for this reason. Assuming I don't let my mage die out, I may become skilled enough to play without shield. However, since I have a nagging tendency to forget that I'm not on my tank I think shield is safest for everyone.

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Shame there is no good mage build threads with math dissecting the passives.

However, I went ahead and did some for the heck of it.

Assuming each class is at an average stat range we can apply values of a whole of how potent that class' damage output on mobs is. I started with warriors as the base value of 1 since they are, by far, the lowest damage output. Rogues are above warriors but don't have many area based attacks so I only gave them the value of 3 (ie 3 warriors = 1 rogue). Mages were tricky, they have much less damage than rogues but many area based attacks. I gave them a value of 4 (ie 4 warriors = 1 mage).
*Note: all values are of accordance to mob slaying, the boss fight has been excluded from this part.

Assuming a case scenario for mage damage importance, a party would consist of 1 warrior, 2 rogues, and 1 mage. By deciding the the mage value of 4 by the sum of all factors (1+2(3)+4=11) we get the value 0._36 which is, under SigFigs, 40%.

Next we find the time of an average elite run (mobs portion only, I am not accounting for the boss). I focused only on Tindirin and found average run times of the mobs being between 9 and 15 min. The average of these is 12min (720 seconds).

40% of all damage was from the mage, thus the time impact of the mage was 288 seconds (720 x 0.4). Assuming perfect numbers, each point in passive damage will reduce the value of 288 by an equivalent amount of time. That time is roughly 3 seconds (288 x 0.01 = 2.88 ~ 3). This, 5/5 damage should result in a 15 second faster run in this party. The time of the run is reduced further by the party having more warriors and lessened by the party having more mages.

When error is accounted for the impact of passive damage is negligible. However, the 75 HP from 5/5 Dex is just as unattractive to me. Of course, the better geared a mage is the greater his impact will be. Especially if he/she is better geared than the other party members.

*Note: figures assume perfect numbers, were rounded generously, and a working (stackable) passive damage is assumed.
Quote Originally Posted by Madnex View Post
Good work. The one point I disagree with is the average run time. IMO, it's closer to 15 minutes. For an average party with maybe one arcane item in team and no elixirs, the times are:


  • Wilds ~14 minutes
  • Jagged ~ 13 minutes
  • Magma ~ 14 minutes
  • Caves ~ 13 minutes
  • Rockhorn ~ 20 minutes


Another thing, pairings and class combinations can't exactly be calculated this way; the damage output of two mages working together is improved beyond double by alternating time shift for example. Generally replacing any class with a mage speeds up the run (at least for the mobs part). What I'm trying to say is that the effect of any rogue's/mage's damage and essentially any damage boosts like passive damage are directly connected with the number of mages in the run.

Two mages, one rogue and a warrior is the most efficient scheme for most of the elites. The warrior can be replaced in an experienced group with another mage or rogue for extra speed. Good mages are hard to find nowadays though. :/
No one reads the whole post whenever its long :/