Economy Survey

[FluffNStuff]

None and I've been losing money lately to in the merchant realm. I was doing well with the swirling amulet of potency and all of a sudden now the market is flooded with them. I'm guessing it's the capped toons beginning the liquidation of the farming gear replacing it with the lv 30 equivalent or something and using that to level until 36...

I agree that this economy is way out of whack though.

The reason is Bael II drops new amulets with 36/18 stats instead of the 34/17 stats that are on the other Level 31 amulets. This is an example of something a full time merchant would miss and a player who merches would see.

[Alrisaia]

The reason is Bael II drops new amulets with 36/18 stats instead of the 34/17 stats that are on the other Level 31 amulets. This is an example of something a full time merchant would miss and a player who merches would see.

Thanks Fluff - what's the name of that new Amulet?

[Darko]

I still think the plat vs gold needs to be adjusted...I understand the concern from merchs....my personal way, if I have more gold ill spend more....its not like the real life world economy where influx in money causes inflation as its not compared to anybother currency....if its easily available for me ti access more money I'm more apt to spend more increasing pricing and your pocketbooks as vemders....I also agree with energizeric to increase gold production in quests and drops from treasure chests.....as this would also increase amount of gold....the other aspect Is stg needs to increase the amount and variety of equipment...introduce new lower level items (aka sandstorm in pl) don't have 1-3 end game weapons, have 10-15..... more variety helps keep economy from being swarmed with same items

[FluffNStuff]

Thanks Fluff - what's the name of that new Amulet?

Hmm, I Fluff seems to be wrong here. I saw an influx of amulets and assumed them to be new, but it appears the the Superb Brutallty / Divine Assault is not new and had more stat points at same level then Swirling. Next best guess is a bunch hit the market during the Million Bael Slaughter Fest last Friday. Might not have recovered from that, but clearly I have no clue what I am talking about.

[wvhills]

Hmm, I Fluff seems to be wrong here. I saw an influx of amulets and assumed them to be new, but it appears the the Superb Brutallty / Divine Assault is not new and had more stat points at same level then Swirling. Next best guess is a bunch hit the market during the Million Bael Slaughter Fest last Friday. Might not have recovered from that, but clearly I have no clue what I am talking about.

^^^^fluff post

[Energizeric]

..the other aspect Is stg needs to increase the amount and variety of equipment...introduce new lower level items (aka sandstorm in pl) don't have 1-3 end game weapons, have 10-15..... more variety helps keep economy from being swarmed with same items

The problem here is that they should have never discontinued the original elite pinks from level 15/16 & 20/21. Now a few players own those elite items and others will not be able to compete. Additionally there is no way to farm for these items, so you are stuck waiting until someone decides to sell them for some insanely high price.

Yes, the Sand Caves in PL was tons of fun because even a level 70 player could farm it and hope to get a nice onyx or earthquake item drop, and then sell it for profit. Farming those twink dungeons, while very easy, was tons of fun. That is totally lacking in AL. Some of it was brought back this past weekend with Elite Bael. But he was only dropping end game items. It would be nice to be able to farm twink items for 15/16 & 20/21. Right now the best you can do is level 25 items that drop from Elite Jarl. Unfortunately nobody does PvP at 25, only at 26 mostly. So those 25 items are pretty worthless. Not to mention that the crate gear from level 25/26 is better in many cases than the items that drop from Elite Jarl. Now I'm starting to ramble, but yes STS needs to find a way to make farming for twink gear something we can do.

[Taejo]

Not to mention that the crate gear from level 25/26 is better in many cases than the items that drop from Elite Jarl. Now I'm starting to ramble, but yes STS needs to find a way to make farming for twink gear something we can do.

Isn't it ironic that crates seem to be brought up in every topic related to a current in-game problem? They are the problem.

[drgrimmy]

The problem here is that they should have never discontinued the original elite pinks from level 15/16 & 20/21. Now a few players own those elite items and others will not be able to compete. Additionally there is no way to farm for these items, so you are stuck waiting until someone decides to sell them for some insanely high price.

Yes, the Sand Caves in PL was tons of fun because even a level 70 player could farm it and hope to get a nice onyx or earthquake item drop, and then sell it for profit. Farming those twink dungeons, while very easy, was tons of fun. That is totally lacking in AL. Some of it was brought back this past weekend with Elite Bael. But he was only dropping end game items. It would be nice to be able to farm twink items for 15/16 & 20/21. Right now the best you can do is level 25 items that drop from Elite Jarl. Unfortunately nobody does PvP at 25, only at 26 mostly. So those 25 items are pretty worthless. Not to mention that the crate gear from level 25/26 is better in many cases than the items that drop from Elite Jarl. Now I'm starting to ramble, but yes STS needs to find a way to make farming for twink gear something we can do.

I agree. I miss farming for twink gear like in pl. It was a nice way to be able to keep playing the game when end game became stale and boring. It also added a little bit of diversity to the market. It is a shame that the only way for new twink gear to be generated in game is through crates. I believe most of the elite gear from season one (lvl 15 and 16) is either being held by people who have quit the game or is being hoarded a few other current players.

[Pyromagnium]

Lack of market liquidity is probably due to the next expansion. My inventory turnover for the past few weeks has been terrible. There should be a correction in the future, but right now markets are pretty irrational due to the expansion uncertainty. Hopefully, once more information is released, we'll start to see a recovery. I merchant lvl 31 items but added a new strategy to my investment philosophy: once a new expansion is released, convert to cash as soon as possible.

[Energizeric]

What's interesting is in PL nobody merched end game gear. It was pretty much something that you knew to stay away from because it was so unstable. I would only touch it towards the end of each campaign when prices started to drop. 99% of the merching I did in PL was for twink gear. I made tons of gold merching level 25, 35, 50 & 55 gear. The problem with doing that in AL is those items don't drop anymore, so there is no supply of them to merch.

In order to merch items they really need to be dropping to new players. Old veteran players tend to have more gold and not be in a rush to sell items. New players don't have much gold, so they're often willing to sell at a discount in order to get quick gold to upgrade their gear. That is how merchants survive. Currently in AL the only gear you see players willing to sell at a discount is end game gear, and because the market on that stuff is so unstable, merchants are at risk to even consider buying items unless they are being sold at 50% off. So in the end, there is no way to really be an effective merchant.

Someone mentioned merching eggs. Yes, eggs are the one item that still drops in previous campaigns. New players can get a really good egg drop (like Malison, Kettle, Snaggletooth or Wrathjaw) in previous campaigns, and are often times willing to sell at a discount. But for a healthy economy you really need more than one type of item that is in demand. Eggs alone are not going to keep the economy healthy. Plus the fact that eggs from Kraken & Nordr are not in demand since there are no achievements for those pets. The only really useful pets from those campaigns are Talon (for rogues) and Clyde (for mages). Clyde is plat exclusive, and Talon is so rare there are usually none for sale in the auction.

[FluffNStuff]

Question, how was merching this past weekend in relation when you first posted this? How about the weekends in between?

[Energizeric]

Question, how was merching this past weekend in relation when you first posted this? How about the weekends in between?

Same. Nothing has changed. The only items I've found that i can sell at a consistent profit are very cheap ones where I can scrap 500-1000 gold here and there. In the last week I made about 100k -- not a good week at all. Nobody is really buying anything except eggs, and good luck finding someone who will sell you an egg at any more than 5% discount from auction price. You can't make a profit at 5% off since the listing fee is 5%. And even at 10% off you would have to assume that undercutting the auction price by 1k would make the item sell. But maybe 3 more people undercut you and then it doesn't sell. So to be safe you really need 15-20% off auction price, and that's just not happening.

[Soundlesskill]

10% fluctuation is in the noise.

noise :ddddd

[FluffNStuff]

Same. Nothing has changed. The only items I've found that i can sell at a consistent profit are very cheap ones where I can scrap 500-1000 gold here and there. In the last week I made about 100k -- not a good week at all. Nobody is really buying anything except eggs, and good luck finding someone who will sell you an egg at any more than 5% discount from auction price. You can't make a profit at 5% off since the listing fee is 5%. And even at 10% off you would have to assume that undercutting the auction price by 1k would make the item sell. But maybe 3 more people undercut you and then it doesn't sell. So to be safe you really need 15-20% off auction price, and that's just not happening.

So it wasn't any better in the weeks in between?

[drgrimmy]

From a farmer's perspective on the economy, as it stands, the only thing that it seem is still worth farming for are locked crates, as these are the only things that reliably sell. Perhaps I am just burned out on elites, but the market for elite legendaries seems like it has dried up. Not worth the time and frustration of the current elite levels for the relatively minimal gain. I hope things change next season, as things seem pretty stagnant and boring when the only thing people seem interested in in this game is farming for and/or opening locked crates. If its not mythic or arcane, nobody cares. Unfortunately, I don't see much changing next season as mythics should still the best items in game and no one will have anything to work towards other than upgrading the mythics they currently own. It is hard for me to see much of a market for good legendary gear next season. In the past seasons the top legendary gear would go for millions in the begining of the season, but I cannot see this happening next season as why would someone spend millions on a new legendary item when the mythic they already own is better or when they can just buy a mythic instead. I personally would not spend 1 million or more on top legendary armor when I could just save up for mythic gear instead. I know the crates are a great revenue source for STS and probably a necessary evil at this point, but I just wish that gear other than mythics and arcane would regain some relevance in this game.

[Taejo]

From a farmer's perspective on the economy, as it stands, the only thing that it seem is still worth farming for are locked crates, as these are the only things that reliably sell. Perhaps I am just burned out on elites, but the market for elite legendaries seems like it has dried up. Not worth the time and frustration of the current elite levels for the relatively minimal gain. I hope things change next season, as things seem pretty stagnant and boring when the only thing people seem interested in in this game is farming for and/or opening locked crates. If its not mythic or arcane, nobody cares. Unfortunately, I don't see much changing next season as mythics should still the best items in game and no one will have anything to work towards other than upgrading the mythics they currently own. It is hard for me to see much of a market for good legendary gear next season. In the past seasons the top legendary gear would go for millions in the begining of the season, but I cannot see this happening next season as why would someone spend millions on a new legendary item when the mythic they already own is better or when they can just buy a mythic instead. I personally would not spend 1 million or more on top legendary armor when I could just save up for mythic gear instead. I know the crates are a great revenue source for STS and probably a necessary evil at this point, but I just wish that gear other than mythics and arcane would regain some relevance in this game.

Yep. If the legendary items in season 5 aren't worth wearing, the economy we saw in season 4 will repeat itself at a much faster rate. On a side note, I think the label "Mythic" throws a lot of people off in this game. There is no reason why a L36 legendary necklace can't be better than a L30 mythic necklace. Mythic is the "rarity", not "the best". Yes, the stats must be superb. But even a 2009 Mercedes is replaced by a 2014 BMW eventually (not a great example, but you get the point).

[Alrisaia]

So - seems a little bit free-written I'll try to interpret and I agree with you for the most part Grim...

From a farmer's perspective on the economy, as it stands, the only thing that it seem is still worth farming for are locked crates, as these are the only things that reliably sell.

Yes - in fact Elite Runners has moved a great deal of our farming efforts to KM3 runs for gold... I personally still farm Elites for certain eggs and chests - but I'm with you that a primary source of income for a farmer had better be crates, else it's a negative return.

Perhaps I am just burned out on elites, but the market for elite legendaries seems like it has dried up. Not worth the time and frustration of the current elite levels for the relatively minimal gain.

We're still running elites to train some of the newer members on strategy as well as farm a few items... But Bael ii has killed the market for Noble and Champions armor as well as Mountain's teeth. Additionally, with a pending update coming and level cap increase - people (me included) are willing to sell items that you can find cheaper substitutes for higher gold now... I sold my Ensorcelled Ring of Potency at a major discount because I know in the coming weeks it will be harder and harder to sell...

If its not mythic or arcane, nobody cares. Unfortunately, I don't see much changing next season as mythics should still the best items in game and no one will have anything to work towards other than upgrading the mythics they currently own.

It's a simple supply / demand curve here with regards to the 'nobody cares'... Almost all End Gamers already own Noble or Champions gear and the Mythic Gear is all that's left to work for - combine that with the point I made above about Bael ii and people liquidating their Legendary lv 31 gear like me and you have an abundance of supply with low demand.

It is hard for me to see much of a market for good legendary gear next season.

That's a hard prediction to make because we don't know what the stats are nor do we know how rare of drops they will be. Will Bael ii still drop the 'best' legendary items? Will trash pinks and more mythics coming from crates flood the market when people open 2000+ crates to find the ultra rare arcane mage weapon and Samael?

In the past seasons the top legendary gear would go for millions in the begining of the season, but I cannot see this happening next season as why would someone spend millions on a new legendary item when the mythic they already own is better or when they can just buy a mythic instead. I personally would not spend 1 million or more on top legendary armor when I could just save up for mythic gear instead.

I agree - I would simply buy mythic gear

I know the crates are a great revenue source for STS and probably a necessary evil at this point, but I just wish that gear other than mythics and arcane would regain some relevance in this game.

I think if the trash pinks coming from crates had stats that weren't so close to the legendary items that dropped from elite sources the problem would be solved... Heck - just remove the trash pinks all together - gold / plat / arcane / mythics / eggs - that's PLENTY to be coming from crates. When Bonechill armor is ALMOST as good as the BEST armor in the game, it's difficult to justify a price so close to the Mythic gear.

Additionally - I believe that farming lower Elite maps should yield lower level items and those lower level items should be the BEST legendary gear for their level:

To give an example:

Currently a lv 21 twink can open up 50 crates and get a full legendary set better than ANY level 21 legendary gear that dropped during the Dead City campaign or otherwise, make profit from selling all the stuff they can't use, and it cost them only 750 plat (not difficult to obtain). I propose that if you maintain trash pinks in the crates, they should not be as good as the gear that originated from the campaign expansions.

This way, you could actually introduce farming those lower level items and this farming would become an effective means of revenue for farmers. Thus, one could farm an elite dead city map, find gear that's from lv 17 - 25 (random roll for level) and that gear would be the BEST gear for lv 21 - 25.

Respectively, lv 21 - 30 would be Pirate Gear and the BEST gear in the game for a lv 26 - 30 should be Pirate Gear.

lv 26 - 35 Nordr gear and it should be the BEST gear in the game for a lv 31 - 35

Lastly the original gear (Ranger sets, etc...) should be for lv 1 - 25 and while it will be good, it should only be the BEST gear for lvs 1 - 20...

Does that make sense? I just think that if there were a way to make dropped gear substantially better than the gear coming out of crates (other than mythic or arcane) it would give the farming economy a boost...

My 2 gp anyway...

[Taejo]

What's interesting is in PL nobody merched end game gear. It was pretty much something that you knew to stay away from because it was so unstable. I would only touch it towards the end of each campaign when prices started to drop. 99% of the merching I did in PL was for twink gear. I made tons of gold merching level 25, 35, 50 & 55 gear. The problem with doing that in AL is those items don't drop anymore, so there is no supply of them to merch.

In order to merch items they really need to be dropping to new players. Old veteran players tend to have more gold and not be in a rush to sell items. New players don't have much gold, so they're often willing to sell at a discount in order to get quick gold to upgrade their gear. That is how merchants survive. Currently in AL the only gear you see players willing to sell at a discount is end game gear, and because the market on that stuff is so unstable, merchants are at risk to even consider buying items unless they are being sold at 50% off. So in the end, there is no way to really be an effective merchant.

Someone mentioned merching eggs. Yes, eggs are the one item that still drops in previous campaigns. New players can get a really good egg drop (like Malison, Kettle, Snaggletooth or Wrathjaw) in previous campaigns, and are often times willing to sell at a discount. But for a healthy economy you really need more than one type of item that is in demand. Eggs alone are not going to keep the economy healthy. Plus the fact that eggs from Kraken & Nordr are not in demand since there are no achievements for those pets. The only really useful pets from those campaigns are Talon (for rogues) and Clyde (for mages). Clyde is plat exclusive, and Talon is so rare there are usually none for sale in the auction.

In every MMORPG I've played in the past 15 years, twink gear is what the majority of bored end-gamers poured their time/money into. AL doesn't have a very good twink gear economy, and virtually no place to farm it. AL devs have actually transformed twinking into a pay-to-win concept from crates (omit eggs); something that I personally will never buy into and completely frown upon.

[Energizeric]

Keep in mind that the mythic armor/helm upgrades could cause the helms and armors to go way up in price as they will become scarce (since you cannot trade the upgraded items). If this happens and the price rises significantly, then the elite legendary items could once again be in demand as a much cheaper alternative.

Also, the crate pinks will be much more scarce next season compared to this season due to the change in the crates (no automatic pink every time). So that too could make it so that legendary items have more value.

Part of the reason why champion & noble armors/helms are so cheap is that they are only a little better than the bonechill crate armors/helms and therefore, nobody is willing to pay that much more for them. The bonechill items are so common as they used to come in every crate, so the price is less than 1k -- and this causes the price of the slightly better champion & noble items to be lower than they should be.

If in the next season the crate pinks are priced higher due to more scarcity, the elite pinks should have more value as well.

Overall, I think the change to the crates will have a big positive effect on the economy, but it won't be seen until next season.

[Crowsfoot]

I only want to buy a mythic warrior helm to complete my set (pm crowsfoot or minatar your offers )

Now to the economy issue. The economy is usually steady, and merching (for low level players) is possible with a small learning curb. However, only THE most skilled (or more commonly richest) merchants can currently make any real money. I used to invest heavily, but the ability of items from locked to be purged into market so quickly makes investing unreliable.
You honestly can never anticipate (random player) from looting five myth helms in 20mins because he spent a lot of plat. When this happens anyone who invested in this helm usually takes a loss. Obviously STS likes that they turned a profit (if you owned it's would you run it different? I personally like money) but it does hurt the overall economy.
Its the equivalent of you investing in the US dollar (you fool! Lol), and the government just printed a couple million dollars. The recipients of this new printed money rise in wealth but investors in the dollar lose wealth.