Question for a developer..... Armor

[Energizeric]

Btw, those calculations are incorrect. The developer said in that post that the multiplier changes as your level changes. No level 21 player has 1500 armor.

[GoodSyntax]

Btw, those calculations are incorrect. The developer said in that post that the multiplier changes as your level changes. No level 21 player has 1500 armor.

That's exactly the reason why I left the DMG, Multiplier and Total HP fields editable.

This way, you can tinker with the values by sliding around the multiplier and DMG levels and the rest of the spreadsheet will auto-update.

[FluffNStuff]

I have figured out the basic PvE equation for armor when both parties are the same level. I am not sure if this changes when there is a difference, so will be investigating that then posting a new thread with all information. In the meantime, I can answer the original question:
Class does not matter, and damage does not matter, it is a percentage:
If both are LEVEL 31, PvE (PvP ~could~ be different):
750 = 24.1935%
800 = 25.8065%
1500 = 48.3871%
1550 = 50.0000%

[JaytB]

I have figured out the basic PvE equation for armor when both parties are the same level. I am not sure if this changes when there is a difference, so will be investigating that then posting a new thread with all information. In the meantime, I can answer the original question:
Class does not matter, and damage does not matter, it is a percentage:
If both are LEVEL 31, PvE (PvP ~could~ be different):
750= 24.1935%
800 = 25.8065%
1500= 48.3871%
1550 = 50.0000%

Dmg reduction= 0.032258 x armor.

Very interesting to know. Did it take a lot of testing to figure out?

[FluffNStuff]

Dmg reduction= 0.032258 x armor.

Very interesting to know. Did it take a lot of testing to figure out?

That is just at 31, and it was a combination of testing and a duh moment looking at what the dev posted. (Hint, flip that number )

[Energizeric]

Fluff, from your calculations, it appears that at our current health levels for a rogue or sorcerer (approximately 3k), an armor increase is about equal to the same health increase. 50 extra armor will save you about 50 extra health. At least that confirms what everyone was thinking, is that armor is not so useful at this point in time.

[FluffNStuff]

Fluff, from your calculations, it appears that at our current health levels for a rogue or sorcerer (approximately 3k), an armor increase is about equal to the same health increase. 50 extra armor will save you about 50 extra health. At least that confirms what everyone was thinking, is that armor is not so useful at this point in time.

Ignoring calculations for a second, you also have to keep in mind that armor works per hit and health works per fill up. So assuming a certain amount is equal for one shot does not make them equal in a battle unless you go COMPLETELY FULL after every single hit.

[GoodSyntax]

It's about time that we as a collective decided to try to crack this mystery.

TY to everyone for all the evidence! It seems that the "feeling" from many of us has been vetted and proven to be true.

Awesome work!

[Energizeric]

Ignoring calculations for a second, you also have to keep in mind that armor works per hit and health works per fill up. So assuming a certain amount is equal for one shot does not make them equal in a battle unless you go COMPLETELY FULL after every single hit.

I wasn't figuring per hit, but per full health amount..... If you take your calculations a step further, if you have 3000 health and you get hit for 3000 damage, then having the extra 50 armor will lower than damage by about 50. So effectively you would take a hit of 2950, leaving you with 50 health. This is the same as if you had 50 extra health instead of the extra armor, as you would still be left with 50 health. Yes there are minor differences between the 2 situations, but in general they are pretty similar.

[JaytB]

I wasn't figuring per hit, but per full health amount..... If you take your calculations a step further, if you have 3000 health and you get hit for 3000 damage, then having the extra 50 armor will lower than damage by about 50. So effectively you would take a hit of 2950, leaving you with 50 health. This is the same as if you had 50 extra health instead of the extra armor, as you would still be left with 50 health. Yes there are minor differences between the 2 situations, but in general they are pretty similar.

The only difference, neglecting those minor differences, is that if 3 enemies attack you at once, 50 armor would become 150 health. Not that I think you'd be alive in PvP after that, but for PvE mob clearing there would be a lot of dmg reduction going on making armor> hp at first sight.

I have to say I didn't expect that 1 armor would more or less be 1 HP.

[Energizeric]

Yes, if you take 9k in damage then the extra armor would block 150 damage. But then you would be dead so it wouldn't matter. It's only relevant how much damage it blocks from 3k damage inflicted, because any more than that and you would be dead. And according to Fluff's calculations, it would block approximately 50 points of damage from a 3k damage hit (or some combination of hits totaling 3k in damage).

[Taejo]

It's about time that we as a collective decided to try to crack this mystery.

TY to everyone for all the evidence! It seems that the "feeling" from many of us has been vetted and proven to be true.

Awesome work!

Agreed. This changes my prospects on how I will build my warrior in Season 5. Thank you everyone!

[JaytB]

Yes, if you take 9k in damage then the extra armor would block 150 damage. But then you would be dead so it wouldn't matter. It's only relevant how much damage it blocks from 3k damage inflicted, because any more than that and you would be dead. And according to Fluff's calculations, it would block approximately 50 points of damage from a 3k damage hit (or some combination of hits totaling 3k in damage).

I meant for PvE, those health pots sure come in handy, especially if there would be less dmg for me to heal with them.

[Energizeric]

I meant for PvE, those health pots sure come in handy, especially if there would be less dmg for me to heal with them.

Good point, I was thinking PvP. So then you have a fair point, the armor is better than the health, but just by a little bit. For PvP I would say they are equal.

What I would really like to know is what influences health and mana regen. In PL we were able to see those stats and different gear made differences in those numbers. Here in AL it seems like regen is the forgotten stat. In seasons 1 & 2 when health and mana numbers were much lower, I used to really notice when I had a pet like Flap Jack who added +8 health & mana regen. Now I barely notice regen.

[Taejo]

I have figured out the basic PvE equation for armor when both parties are the same level. I am not sure if this changes when there is a difference, so will be investigating that then posting a new thread with all information. In the meantime, I can answer the original question:
Class does not matter, and damage does not matter, it is a percentage:
If both are LEVEL 31, PvE (PvP ~could~ be different):
750 = 24.1935%
800 = 25.8065%
1500 = 48.3871%
1550 = 50.0000%

I'm not very proficient at math, but I can compare stats pretty well . I was testing the difference between Koko (+80 armor) and Shiloh (+4% damage reduction) for a sorc. I noticed a slightly greater amount of damage mitigation with Shiloh. Here are my numbers:

748 armor + Koko = 828 armor = 26.71% (rounded) damage reduction
748 armor + Shiloh = 28.13% (rounded) damage reduction

Getting hit on average for 150 damage with Koko.
Getting hit on average for 147 damage with Shiloh.

I did this test simply to see for myself how accurate your numbers are. Looks good to me, so far.

EDIT: Am I correct when saying that Shiloh's 4% damage reduction is roughly equal to +125 armor? That being said, the Devs mentioned upon Abaddon's release that 'low level characters will see a huge amount of damage reduction while using Abaddon, but it slowly decreases as you level up'. This means that 0.032258 is the multiplier for L31, and increases as the level goes down to L1 - right? At L31, Abaddon gives +3.54838% dmg reduction based on your numbers above; and at L36 he will give less.

[GoodSyntax]

I'm not very proficient at math, but I can compare stats pretty well . I was testing the difference between Koko (+80 armor) and Shiloh (+4% damage reduction) for a sorc. I noticed a slightly greater amount of damage mitigation with Shiloh. Here are my numbers:

748 armor + Koko = 828 armor = 26.71% (rounded) damage reduction
748 armor + Shiloh = 28.13% (rounded) damage reduction

Getting hit on average for 150 damage with Koko.
Getting hit on average for 147 damage with Shiloh.

I did this test simply to see for myself how accurate your numbers are. Looks good to me, so far.

EDIT: Am I correct when saying that Shiloh's 4% damage reduction is roughly equal to +125 armor? That being said, the Devs mentioned upon Abaddon's release that 'low level characters will see a huge amount of damage reduction while using Abaddon, but it slowly decreases as you level up'. This means that 0.032258 is the multiplier for L31, and increases as the level goes down to L1 - right? At L31, Abaddon gives +3.54838% dmg reduction based on your numbers above; and at L36 he will give less.

Not necessarily.....correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that damage reduction (i.e., the 4% from Shiloh) takes place BEFORE armor calculation. So, as your armor scales up, the overall damage mitigation is actually greater than 4%. In the case of 3000 DMG with 1500 armor, the net damage mitigation from Shiloh is more like 6%:

3000 DMG * 0.96 (reduction of 4%) = 2820.

2820 DMG with the same 0.00047619 multiplier yields 671.43072 inflicted damage
3000 DMG with the same 0.00047619 multiplier yields 714.288 inflicted damage

Net difference with 4% damage reduction is actually 6.383% inflicted damage reduction in this example.

As with all % based pets, as you increase in level, the overall benefit improves.

Again, I could be totally off-base on this.

[FluffNStuff]

I'm not very proficient at math, but I can compare stats pretty well . I was testing the difference between Koko (+80 armor) and Shiloh (+4% damage reduction) for a sorc. I noticed a slightly greater amount of damage mitigation with Shiloh. Here are my numbers:

748 armor + Koko = 828 armor = 26.71% (rounded) damage reduction
748 armor + Shiloh = 28.13% (rounded) damage reduction

Getting hit on average for 150 damage with Koko.
Getting hit on average for 147 damage with Shiloh.

I did this test simply to see for myself how accurate your numbers are. Looks good to me, so far.

EDIT: Am I correct when saying that Shiloh's 4% damage reduction is roughly equal to +125 armor? That being said, the Devs mentioned upon Abaddon's release that 'low level characters will see a huge amount of damage reduction while using Abaddon, but it slowly decreases as you level up'. This means that 0.032258 is the multiplier for L31, and increases as the level goes down to L1 - right? At L31, Abaddon gives +3.54838% dmg reduction based on your numbers above; and at L36 he will give less.

You are correct about abaddon, based on current tests (I have a ton of other numbers, still trying to sort the equation out) he would block 11% at level 10. I was wondering if you would run a test for me since I do not have Shiloh. Could you test what his damage reduction is with ZERO armor? I assume it is 4% but I am curious to see if it is different. That would help put it in a different part of the equation.

[Taejo]

I didn't have a lot of time to data collect, so I will do 50-100 hits tomorrow and edit this post with that data. So far here's what I have:

Warrior testing of 20 hits (no crits)

0 armor, no pet:

83, 76, 93, 76, 85, 77, 80, 85, 77, 93, 79, 93, 81, 78, 85, 81, 85, 82, 86, 90 = 83.25 avg dmg

0 armor, Shiloh:

83, 80, 74, 75, 82, 86, 78, 76, 89, 85, 76, 73, 74, 85, 85, 79, 80, 73, 74, 79 = 79.3 avg dmg

0.0395 * 83.25 = 3.288375% dmg reduction

General observation: the threshold of maximum dmg taken went down from 93 to 89.

His damage reduction is 4%, so this is close, but not 100%. I will also try with 1600 armor with/without Shiloh to see if armor is needed as a modifier for pets with +% damage reduction, to verify what GoodSyntax is saying.

-----

EDIT 1:

Sorc testing of 50 hits (no crits)

0 armor, no pet = 84.76 avg dmg

0 armor, Shiloh = 82.18 avg dmg

0.0258 * 84.76 = 2.186808% dmg reduction

General observation: the threshold of maximum dmg taken went down from 93 to 90.

-----

EDIT 2:

Sorc testing of 50 hits (no crits)

748 armor, no pet = 65.12 avg dmg (+16.646864% dmg reduction from above 0 armor, no pet scenario)

748 armor, Shiloh = 53.92 avg dmg (+23.224068% dmg reduction from above 0 armor, Shiloh scenario)

0.112 * 65.12 = 7.29344% dmg reduction

General observation: the threshold of maximum dmg taken went down from 72 to 69.

-----

EDIT 3:

My numbers are starting to not make any sense :/. The above scenarios were testing against the Evil King in the King Dude Ditty quest. So if I did that wrong, please tell me a better mob to test it against.

[Alfred Emmanuel Tanopo]

too.... much.... numbers....

[FluffNStuff]

I didn't have a lot of time to data collect, so I will do 50-100 hits tomorrow and edit this post with that data. So far here's what I have:

Warrior testing of 20 hits (no crits)

0 armor, no pet:

83, 76, 93, 76, 85, 77, 80, 85, 77, 93, 79, 93, 81, 78, 85, 81, 85, 82, 86, 90 = 83.25 avg dmg

0 armor, Shiloh:

83, 80, 74, 75, 82, 86, 78, 76, 89, 85, 76, 73, 74, 85, 85, 79, 80, 73, 74, 79 = 79.3 avg dmg

0.0395 * 83.25 = 3.288375% dmg reduction

General observation: the threshold of maximum dmg taken went down from 93 to 89.

His damage reduction is 4%, so this is close, but not 100%. I will also try with 1600 armor with/without Shiloh to see if armor is needed as a modifier for pets with +% damage reduction, to verify what GoodSyntax is saying.

-----

EDIT 1:

Sorc testing of 50 hits (no crits)

0 armor, no pet = 84.76 avg dmg

0 armor, Shiloh = 82.18 avg dmg

0.0258 * 84.76 = 2.186808% dmg reduction

General observation: the threshold of maximum dmg taken went down from 93 to 90.

-----

EDIT 2:

Sorc testing of 50 hits (no crits)

748 armor, no pet = 65.12 avg dmg (+16.646864% dmg reduction from above 0 armor, no pet scenario)

748 armor, Shiloh = 53.92 avg dmg (+23.224068% dmg reduction from above 0 armor, Shiloh scenario)

0.112 * 65.12 = 7.29344% dmg reduction

General observation: the threshold of maximum dmg taken went down from 72 to 69.

-----

EDIT 3:

My numbers are starting to not make any sense :/. The above scenarios were testing against the Evil King in the King Dude Ditty quest. So if I did that wrong, please tell me a better mob to test it against.

Numbers are good, just got mixed up on calculation (Should be damage difference / Original damage) so you get a 23% damage reduction from the 748 armor, same as you had before so must have just put them down quick. Anyway, got another test I was hoping you could run (Is Shiloh the only %damage reduction pet at 4% or higher or is there one that is under 220K?) Would you be able to do a test in a lower level, naked probably best, since the idea is for it to be as low as possible for you to be able to see a 4% reduction when you add in Shiloh. The purpose for this is when a lower mob attacks their damage is scaled based on level. What I am trying to figure out is if the 4% is of the damage you see after that happens, or if it turns out to be higher then 4% which means it is the original damage the mob put out.