AL Economy in Recession??

[Wutzgood]

Honestly most people aren't buying expensive things because they are waiting for the expansion. I tell everyone in my guild not to buy till after the new expansion since most stuff will be outdated.

[Aziiii]

I agree with most uf u here, allot of crates where open this season makeing pinks over flow in auctions,the only items that sell fast are eggs and crates ...and farming is still hard since well some of us buy elix and get bad drops.That gold we spend for pets and pots doesnt make up for the bad drops sometimes but what can we do......just wait a little more for expansion and see how things work out Best of luck to all of u !

[Energizeric]

All I gotta say is this... This proves that even in video games, capitalism isn't the way to go in the long run. It always fails, time and time again, in history, and now, in-game, it has been proven. Anarchy FTW! Communism still has less flaws than capitalism, lol, look at how long Cuba lasted

You give Cuba as an example of a good economy? LOL

I would argue that in the AL economy we actually have more elements of Communism than Capitalism. Yes, we do have the auction which is a free market. But STS controls the price of the auction listing fees, the price of potions, the price of some pets, and they control the drop rate of all items. That is central planning (i.e. Communism) at its finest. As we have seen, central planning can work if its properly managed, but even the slightest error and everything falls apart.

The best economies in the world are all some combination of both Capitalism and Communism. Most economists refer to such a system as "Regulated Capitalism". Most such systems allow supply and demand to run the market (rather than central planning), but add in certain protections for both consumers and businesses to prevent abuse.

Unfortunately, in most of these countries those who are in charge of the regulation have become corrupted by those they are supposed to regulate, so these systems have broken down. That does tend to give fuel to the argument in favor of central planning. However, none of the Communist economies have been very successful either, so it appears both systems are very flawed.

[bramer]

You give Cuba as an example of a good economy? LOL

I would argue that in the AL economy we actually have more elements of Communism than Capitalism. Yes, we do have the auction which is a free market. But STS controls the price of the auction listing fees, the price of potions, the price of some pets, and they control the drop rate of all items. That is central planning (i.e. Communism) at its finest. As we have seen, central planning can work if its properly managed, but even the slightest error and everything falls apart.

The best economies in the world are all some combination of both Capitalism and Communism. Most economists refer to such a system as "Regulated Capitalism". Most such systems allow supply and demand to run the market (rather than central planning), but add in certain protections for both consumers and businesses to prevent abuse.

Unfortunately, in most of these countries those who are in charge of the regulation have become corrupted by those they are supposed to regulate, so these systems have broken down. That does tend to give fuel to the argument in favor of central planning. However, none of the Communist economies have been very successful either, so it appears both systems are very flawed.

Everyone should switch back to the age-old system of trading dead animals for more dead animals. Worked fine for the cavemen.

This is bramer - signing out

[Zeus]

All I gotta say is this... This proves that even in video games, capitalism isn't the way to go in the long run. It always fails, time and time again, in history, and now, in-game, it has been proven. Anarchy FTW! Communism still has less flaws than capitalism, lol, look at how long Cuba lasted

All I know is that you believed your Government teacher too much in HS. Trust me, don't take everything he/she says for granted.

As for AL's economy, it's still one of the worst economies out of the entire Legends game. The gap between the rich and poor is incredible, although mythics have become a lot more affordable as of late. Try buying and selling in AL versus buying and selling in PL. In AL, you have to stand for hours just trying to find a person who can even AFFORD your items. Getting them to buy it is a different story entirely.

In a healthy economy, this should not be the case. There should always be a constant flux of buying and selling. In AL, as you can see, that is simply not the case.

[Suentous PO]

All I gotta say is this... This proves that even in video games, capitalism isn't the way to go in the long run. It always fails, time and time again, in history, and now, in-game, it has been proven. Anarchy FTW! Communism still has less flaws than capitalism, lol, look at how long Cuba lasted

Hi, I'm Cuban, don't even get me started!

[xmakx]

I think the game economy will get better after the expansion comes out.
Just 3 more bad days for merching.

[Szangheili]

I'm also Cuban, lol. And yes I still am in High School, a senior actually. As for me believing Communism is better than Capitalism, why yes I 100% agree with that. Capitalism fails, we all know that. Whoever tries to deny that is simply ignorant.

This I actually know, just look at our country for instance. In order to actually have a stable economy, we need a little bit of capitalism, the way Castro is opening up to capitalist ways, soon enough, he'll be having internet in there, although most of it will be censored. I'm not saying he's a great leader, or a bad one.. But if his country lasted this long, he's doing something right.

[Insomniack]

Communism, as intended to be, is not possible to exist! We all know that. "Perfect" Communism is not present, nor it will ever be anywhere. It is just choice of going to more authoritarian or libertarian system, AND choosing between how much influx of free market economy you should allow. As for AL, yes, new expansion should have vast effect on economy. I am now really in some positive mood toward it, I think that it will prove itself healed. But.. Only time will tell.

[Zeus]

I'm also Cuban, lol. And yes I still am in High School, a senior actually. As for me believing Communism is better than Capitalism, why yes I 100% agree with that. Capitalism fails, we all know that. Whoever tries to deny that is simply ignorant.

This I actually know, just look at our country for instance. In order to actually have a stable economy, we need a little bit of capitalism, the way Castro is opening up to capitalist ways, soon enough, he'll be having internet in there, although most of it will be censored. I'm not saying he's a great leader, or a bad one.. But if his country lasted this long, he's doing something right.

Britain lasted pretty long too... without turning to communism.

[joshtheboss]

Why does everyone have to be so absolute? Complete communism doesn't work just like complete capitalism wont.

[Morholt]

It's 'staggering' from a combination of everyone being aware of the expansion bringing purples that'll be better than current to pinks & the ABSOLUTELY ABSURD mark up people resell items for.
The prices for gear has become so much higher than their actual useful value. I've been using a bling bauble of potency instead of a swirling amulet of potency. I surely can afford a bunch of them. But the upgrade is so pointless. Two dex and one int. What is the usual price for these? Anywhere from 35-60k. Before the expansion announcement? Around 150k and well over. Want to know something crazy? A few days ago I saw one posted for as low as 10k! And about 4 more under 20k (all lvl 31 ofc). Since then, all back over the 30k mark. Didn't even buy the one for 10k. Can't justify 10k for such a minimal upgrade--especially when purples will be giving higher stats very soon. Considered buy & resell, but felt everyone would have the same thoughts on it when it's being sold for 30k (I'll just wait a week for better and cheaper).

The greed of merchers is disgusting on some gear. Found something maybe a month back. Was being sold for over 100k at the time. Waited 5 days. Prices were lower. Illisted for around 78k for 3 days--being about 12k under current lowest (just wanted to get it off my hands). What did I find as the next three days passed? Being under priced...more and more and more. Same handful of people relisting. Finally expired, I listed at around 48k, thinking that price is crazy low (to the point that someone would try to resell mine), with every other at 60k still. Nope. Same thing. People posted as low as 33k by the end of the 3 days. I finally sold it at around 18k, around what all my list fees for it costed me. And I believe the current list fees to be plenty fair.

The economy isn't dying. But it isn't booming. It's functioning. Deal with it. You can't make a 700% profit off of something when it isn't booming. But it will be booming again with the release. You can still make gold off of merching stuff--but a reasonable amount. You just have to list stuff at an actually reasonable price. Making 200k a day with minimal effort is absurd and not right. Affording a mythic item within 10 days isn't intended.
Mammon destroys all economies of every type.

As for a suggestion for the game itself, there indeed needs to be some mythic & non mythic middle ground. Slightly power up all gear. Then give legendary gear a good boost. Make legendary gear less common. Epics should become the survivable gear and legendary can be the harder to get gear as you work towards mythic items. Research & development can work on the exact amount of gear boosting to find the right balances.

Making it easier in finding a group for elites would make gaming in harder maps more enjoyable, rather than many feeling like their options are easy to crush normal maps or impossible elites. Perhaps even a middle ground difficulty! I'd love to see a "/f " kind of command in chat. Essentially, it's exactly the same as sending a message to people in your guild, expect this is to your friends list. Makes it A LOT easier to go, "/f anyone up for elite oltgar? Definitely need a mage," rather than having to message people one by one--not exactly pleasant to do when typing on your phone.

[Szangheili]

I'm also Cuban, lol. And yes I still am in High School, a senior actually. As for me believing Communism is better than Capitalism, why yes I 100% agree with that. Capitalism fails, we all know that. Whoever tries to deny that is simply ignorant.

This I actually know, just look at our country for instance. In order to actually have a stable economy, we need a little bit of capitalism, the way Castro is opening up to capitalist ways, soon enough, he'll be having internet in there, although most of it will be censored. I'm not saying he's a great leader, or a bad one.. But if his country lasted this long, he's doing something right.

Britain lasted pretty long too... without turning to communism.

True, but that is because they're not as dumb as our American greedy elites. Over time, capitalism corrupts the rich, which is basically what is happening in this game. The "Merchants" complain about price drops, etc. And how the poor got decent gear for cheap, and bla bla bla. Kinda sickening to hear this all the time.. But, money is money, it changes ppl, what can I say? I would like to see how long humanity lasts with all forms of currency gone.. What will we replace the dollar with? Human Nature shows that overall, we're a greedy species. We wouldn't last so long.. Lol

[Rare]

I'm also Cuban, lol. And yes I still am in High School, a senior actually. As for me believing Communism is better than Capitalism, why yes I 100% agree with that. Capitalism fails, we all know that. Whoever tries to deny that is simply ignorant.

This I actually know, just look at our country for instance. In order to actually have a stable economy, we need a little bit of capitalism, the way Castro is opening up to capitalist ways, soon enough, he'll be having internet in there, although most of it will be censored. I'm not saying he's a great leader, or a bad one.. But if his country lasted this long, he's doing something right.

Ok. No idea what you are talking about. Your comment about castro... The logic has a lot of holes. Lets say someone is a bad leader, would you expect their country to disappear? I dont understand. The strength of a leader can be measured by the quality of life of their constituency. In a perfect world, communism maybe best suited. In practice, it is far far from it.

I tried to stay out of this debate, but some things you said touched a nerve.

Communism works best in an oppressed society with a clearly defined class structure.

You should read "A Brave New World" by Aldous Huxley. If you're in high school it should be right up your alley.

And, to equate the economy in AL to communism, imo, is pretty absurd. First and foremost, STS, does not directly benefit/suffer from the economic condition in Arlor.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[Rare]

True, but that is because they're not as dumb as our American greedy elites. Over time, capitalism corrupts the rich, which is basically what is happening in this game. The "Merchants" complain about price drops, etc. And how the poor got decent gear for cheap, and bla bla bla. Kinda sickening to hear this all the time.. But, money is money, it changes ppl, what can I say? I would like to see how long humanity lasts with all forms of currency gone.. What will we replace the dollar with? Human Nature shows that overall, we're a greedy species. We wouldn't last so long.. Lol

Oh... Yes, there is no corruption at all in a communist/totalitarian society. My bad.

These are idealistic comments. Soon, though, you will be exposed to how the real world works. Without money, nothing happens. What do you think REALLY drives innovation and progression? Do you think its people's desire for knowledge?

What you're suggesting is anarchy, oppression, war, survival. POWER is the true corrupter. As they say "money is power." If money is gone, power is something else.

Here is an idea. Lets make this like a true communist society. Sts should make 5 outfits. Then, they get to choose who gets the best gear and who gets the worst. We dont need gold for anything. It will all be given to us as we "need" it. In the meantime, just keep playing the game. Farming elites and opening crates. But whatever you get goes to sts to distribute as they see fit. Sound good?

True, but that is because they're not as dumb as our American greedy elites.

Lmao

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 4

[Bless]

Every page there is atleast one post that is like 10000 characters long --"

[Energizeric]

Communism works best in an oppressed society with a clearly defined class structure.

No, that is actually where it is at its worst.

Communism would work best in a democracy. Then those in charge of the central planning would be chosen by the people, and would have the people's best interest in mind. The problem is that the only time it was ever tried, the wealthy elite in other nearby countries were afraid it would spread, so they plotted a coup to overthrow and murder the democratically elected leader after only a very short period of time. So we never got a chance to see how that turns out over the long run.

Most of the criticisms of Communism have to do with the oppression and authoritarian nature of the political structure -- all things that would not exist in a democratic republic. It's easy to think there is somehow a link between Communism and Authoritarian Rule since both have often been present together. But remember there are plenty of countries that are Capitalist and also have Authoritarian Rule. One does not require the other.

It is possible to have a democratically elected government participate in the central planning of an economy. If you have ever read Karl Marx, that is what was intended.

BTW, if you know your history well, you will know which country I am referring to.

Without money, nothing happens. What do you think REALLY drives innovation and progression? Do you think its people's desire for knowledge?

Another common criticism of socialism/communism.... There will be no innovation. Except there has been tons of innovation in history without anyone ever having a profit motive. Some American examples: the space program (NASA), The Manhattan Project, Salk Vaccine for Polio, the internet, Hoover Dam, Panama Canal, etc...

Yes, I would agree that innovation as it is related to consumer goods (i.e. televisions, cell phones, automobiles, etc.) is best in a free market economy. But mankind does require plenty of innovation in areas that are not profitable, and these areas tend to get lost and left behind in a strict capitalist society....

I'm sure everyone has heard this as a crude example of how capitalism works, but if you invented an automobile that runs on water, and you decided to sell your invention to the highest bidder, no doubt the oil companies would buy this invention, and then lock it away. Innovation sometimes hurts profits. In these cases, a planned economy works considerably better than a free market.

An example of this: our lousy American health care system only seems to concentrate innovation on treatments rather than prevention/cures. Because what is more profitable, to prevent or cure the illness, or for people to take drugs to treat their illness for the rest of their life? It's no surprise that a country with 5% of the world's population takes more than 50% of the worlds pharmaceuticals, yet we still rank near the bottom of all industrialized countries in most health care quality indicators. That is how the free market works. What is most profitable is not always what is best.

In the end, I think the best system is some combination of free market and central planning, which is what we have here in the United States. However, our system has long ago become corrupted by money, and now those who regulate are often puppets of the industries they are supposed to be regulating. So today, regulation in the United States actually serves to hurt the free market and keep the powerful corporations in control. This is not how central planning is supposed to function. It is also not how Capitalism is supposed to function. One corporate merger after another has resulted in very little competition in many major industries, and this hurts innovation. But when you mix money and politics, I guess this is what you end up with.


BTW, this thread is getting way off subject, so I suggest a moderator lock it up. Thanks!

[Bless]

No, that is actually where it is at its worst.

Communism would work best in a democracy. Then those in charge of the central planning would be chosen by the people, and would have the people's best interest in mind. The problem is that the only time it was ever tried, the wealthy elite in other nearby countries were afraid it would spread, so they plotted a coup to overthrow and murder the democratically elected leader after only a very short period of time. So we never got a chance to see how that turns out over the long run.

Most of the criticisms of Communism have to do with the oppression and authoritarian nature of the political structure -- all things that would not exist in a democratic republic. It's easy to think there is somehow a link between Communism and Authoritarian Rule since both have often been present together. But remember there are plenty of countries that are Capitalist and also have Authoritarian Rule. One does not require the other.

It is possible to have a democratically elected government participate in the central planning of an economy. If you have ever read Karl Marx, that is what was intended.

BTW, if you know your history well, you will know which country I am referring to.




Another common criticism of socialism/communism.... There will be no innovation. Except there has been tons of innovation in history without anyone ever having a profit motive. Some American examples: the space program (NASA), The Manhattan Project, Salk Vaccine for Polio, the internet, Hoover Dam, Panama Canal, etc...

Yes, I would agree that innovation as it is related to consumer goods (i.e. televisions, cell phones, automobiles, etc.) is best in a free market economy. But mankind does require plenty of innovation in areas that are not profitable, and these areas tend to get lost and left behind in a strict capitalist society....

I'm sure everyone has heard this as a crude example of how capitalism works, but if you invented an automobile that runs on water, and you decided to sell your invention to the highest bidder, no doubt the oil companies would buy this invention, and then lock it away. Innovation sometimes hurts profits. In these cases, a planned economy works considerably better than a free market.

An example of this: our lousy American health care system only seems to concentrate innovation on treatments rather than prevention/cures. Because what is more profitable, to prevent or cure the illness, or for people to take drugs to treat their illness for the rest of their life? It's no surprise that a country with 5% of the world's population takes more than 50% of the worlds pharmaceuticals, yet we still rank near the bottom of all industrialized countries in most health care quality indicators. That is how the free market works. What is most profitable is not always what is best.

In the end, I think the best system is some combination of free market and central planning, which is what we have here in the United States. However, our system has long ago become corrupted by money, and now those who regulate are often puppets of the industries they are supposed to be regulating. So today, regulation in the United States actually serves to hurt the free market and keep the powerful corporations in control. This is not how central planning is supposed to function. It is also not how Capitalism is supposed to function. One corporate merger after another has resulted in very little competition in many major industries, and this hurts innovation. But when you mix money and politics, I guess this is what you end up with.


BTW, this thread is getting way off subject, so I suggest a moderator lock it up. Thanks!

Every page there is atleast one post that is like 10000 characters long --"

My point is proved.

[GoodSyntax]

Actually Energizeric, this is a very well thought out, well written post (even though it is off-topic) - and I actually agree with you on many points.

Now, to pull this thing back on topic, it seems that the latest releases of Dimensional and Devourer gear had, at best, a tiny positive impact on the market upon their initial release. The problem is that the stats are the same as the Bonechill/Radiant sets that they replace; hence the reason why the market stagnated once again shortly after the release of the new gear.

At this point, I, as many others, am content to wait until the expansion is released before I jump back into merching again - I just don't see any demand right now. I am hoping that shortly after the new expansion is rolled out, and the new pinks start dropping, there will be significant pent up demand which can reinvigorate the stagnant economy.

[Energizeric]

Actually Energizeric, this is a very well thought out, well written post (even though it is off-topic) - and I actually agree with you on many points.

Now, to pull this thing back on topic, it seems that the latest releases of Dimensional and Devourer gear had, at best, a tiny positive impact on the market upon their initial release. The problem is that the stats are the same as the Bonechill/Radiant sets that they replace; hence the reason why the market stagnated once again shortly after the release of the new gear.

At this point, I, as many others, am content to wait until the expansion is released before I jump back into merching again - I just don't see any demand right now. I am hoping that shortly after the new expansion is rolled out, and the new pinks start dropping, there will be significant pent up demand which can reinvigorate the stagnant economy.

Yes, it's just same stats with a different look. No reason why anyone is going to pay significantly more for just a different look, so those items are cheap as well. But when the level 35/36 versions of those items come out later this week, those items will have some value and will not be as common as the bonechill/radiant sets are, so then we will see if the change to crates has a positive effect. I believe it will.