A more modest proposal to balance the game

[WhoIsThis]

Ok, this guide is a more modest proposal of things that can be done NOW. My big thread here:
http://www.spacetimestudios.com/show...-class-balance

It's very extensive, but it is meant to be totally comprehensive and the list of everything that the players want. This one is more modest and to the point. It's meant to make the game more enjoyable if 76 is truly the "end" for PL. It should lead to better balance in both PvP and PvE, an incentive to go dps, more plat spending, and hopefully some degree of closure to the issue whether or not this is "it" for PL.




Equipment Changes
Currently strength is very powerful. There's very little incentive to go int or dex. Why go dex bird or int mage when str will do almost as much damage for vastly better survivability? I've also noticed that str toons kill A LOT in PvE, much more than in prior caps.

Dex
Give all of the level 75 crafted equipment 2% more crit.
Give the same armor as strength pieces

Net: More armor, increased damage, and slightly increased crit (8% for wing and talon, 6% for bow).

Dex is currently underperforming against str. It could use a bit more survivability and maybe a bit more damage (I added as crit).

Int
Give all of the level 75 crafted equipment 2% more crit (so 14% crit per piece) and 10% more damage
Give the same armor as strength set pieces
Give the level 76 Burning Bush Branch 28% crit (upgrade from 2%) and 20% more damage
Double the amount of int per set.

Net: About 8% more crit per piece for int (16% on staff), the staff is much more powerful, and armor for wand/bracer, for staff

Int is currently the weakest class, needs buffs to be viable.


Str
Remove all crit on level 75 strength gear, except for the 76 2H sword, the Smoldering Boulder
For the 2H sword, the level 76 Savage Dragon Master Blade, give it 20% crit and 20% more damage
Reduce dodge by 3% per piece, increase hit by 3% per piece.
Reduce damage by about 10%.
Remove the stun proc on the 1h weapon (could be kept on 2h though)

Net: The 2H sword will be buffed substantially though, like on the staff. The dodge nerf will hopefully make str vs str fights a bit faster with less dodge and in return they get hit, which can be useful where debuffed. Somewhat less damage.

Str is currently OP in the shield+sword, with damage near int and dex levels, but with high survivability.

Angel Sets and Humania Str
They need a slight nerf to their dodge, say 3% less dodge per piece. The int angel set though could go for a bit more damage, say 2-3% more crit to compensate for the loss. The Humania Str sets could also use a dodge nerf.

This will ensure that there is better PvP balance.

I think that this should solve the PvP balance issues. I don't think that this will lead to str being seriously underpowered (in fact it may even need further nerfs). That said, I am open to changes (feedback welcome below).






Extra Quests
Right now, we seem to be facing a situation where PvE is very elixir centric. That's probably not going to change, so I'm not going to try to change it. But I may give incentives spending more. In the past, I haven't always agreed with the vanity bonuses, although at the time, I did support (back in 2011) a system for players to "catch up", although it was never implemented. My suggestions:

Upon reaching level 76, a new player is presented with 3 quests, in this order:
1. Gain 100,000 xp beings in Blacksmoke Mountain (unlocks 2 piece ring - people with the 2 piece ring skip this quest)
2. Gain 100,000 xp beings in Blacksmoke Mountain (turns 2 piece into 3 piece vanity ring - people with the 3 piece ring skip this quest)
3. Have a total of 100,000 PvE kills in Blacksmoke Mountain (turns ANY color of vanity ring into the black one or if the player has a legendary ring, that color of legendary ring into the black one) - Midas would be sold for say, 800 plat. People with more than 100k kills would also get this instantly completed.

As a reward for completing these 3 quests, you get buy a 200 plat vanity headpiece, which gives 5 armor and 5 damage(same as founders).

This will give:
1. Existing players an incentive to spend more plat
2. Negate any advantages that earlier people had in PvP





The Need for More Communication
I think I speak for the entire community when I say that, well, we're somewhat frustrated at the lack of new content. Pretty much everyday there's another thread that asks "if" another tier is coming. It seems that the new "Battle" games and Arcane Legends get more or less all of the resources. What I think we're asking for is for greater communication.

1. If there are no plans to update PL in the foreseeable future, we, the community would like to be told that there are no plans to update and that 76 is "it"
2. If there are plans to give new content to PL, we would like a road map as to when we can expect it to happen

We, the community just want an honest answer to the question rather than to be left hanging.


I think that as a community, if you felt that PL has reached the end of it's life and is no longer "worth" giving new content to from a monetary standpoint, a large number of us would understand.

[WhoIsThis]

I should also mention this, but I think that rhino may need somewhat of a buff to be more viable in both endgame PvP and PvE. Question - why choose a rhino over a bear at this point?

[Somemager]

I love these threads whoisthis +1

[WhoIsThis]

I love these threads whoisthis +1

This one is meant to be a quick and simple thread. Minimal resources needed. In case 76 really is the "end" as I said.

[Oldcoot]

Even if 76 is the end I wouldn't expect stg to admit it because people would leave in droves. As we are ,people are still leveling toons and spending some money. Just my perspective

[WhoIsThis]

You might be right. But it never hurts to ask.

I'm not sure about leaving in droves, but as it stands people are slowly leaving as is. Remember it's the few that spend platinum that matter.

But regardless, I think we need more communication. It's so different from 2010 where well, you would see the devs replying to the majority of threads. I recognise that this is impossible today, but we as a community really need more communication and in some cases, perhaps something to look up to in the future.

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[Oldcoot]

I applaud your efforts who

[Argyros]

I don't recommend nerfing angel sets. Why? These sets were given on humania release for players who can't afford endgame sets. If you nerfed to l65 uncrafted... You discourage a huge majority of players who are "poor."

Also, the angel sets are fairly balanced against each other at l66. Skill can win. I have indeed played on all classes with angel gear at l66, and pvped. Here it is from my view-

Angel sets [crushes]> L61 sets.
Angel sets [beats]> L65 crafted sets.
Angel sets [about]= l66 humanian sets.
L70 crafted and uncrafted sets [beats]> Angel sets.
L71-76 crafted and uncrafted sets [crushes]> Angel sets.

Do you see? Angel may be alot better than fang sets, and it may need some minor tweaking. No major nerf is needed. Downgraded angel sets to l65 uncrafted? That would be death to so many endgamers. Angel set is a viable option for:

• l66 Pvpers
• l76 Endgamers [using angel dex helm n armor+ pheonix is a cheap option (100k-150k) for pvpers]
•Leveling an alt between 66-75. (it is invaluable for leveling on a moments notice)

Now, angel gear was never meant to be crappy items, used for looks. Why were they created? Players at the beginning of the Humania cap, (who capped in fang) needed some average gear in humania pve. If you want to test, go solo unelixered in humania with a crafted l65 set. Haha ya. Angel provided an incentive and an option for players, who were l66, to level to 70, increase their wealth, and to be able to purchase the very expensive l70 crafted sets.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

[Everyone'sFavMage]

I agree on most things. I do not agree however on angel sets being nerfed, except tale some dodge away from int set, and some dodge/damage taken from talon set. But debuffing down to uncraftted is a bit much.

[Everyone'sFavMage]

I don't recommend nerfing angel sets. Why? These sets were given on humania release for players who can't afford endgame sets. If you nerfed to l65 uncrafted... You discourage a huge majority of players who are "poor."

Also, the angel sets are fairly balanced against each other at l66. Skill can win. I have indeed played on all classes with angel gear at l66, and pvped. Here it is from my view-

Angel sets [crushes]> L61 sets.
Angel sets [beats]> L65 crafted sets.
Angel sets [about]= l66 humanian sets.
L70 crafted and uncrafted sets [beats]> Angel sets.
L71-76 crafted and uncrafted sets [crushes]> Angel sets.

Do you see? Angel may be alot better than fang sets, and it may need some minor tweaking. No major nerf is needed. Downgraded angel sets to l65 uncrafted? That would be death to so many endgamers. Angel set is a viable option for:

• l66 Pvpers
• l76 Endgamers [using angel dex helm n armor+ pheonix is a cheap option (100k-150k) for pvpers]
•Leveling an alt between 66-75. (it is invaluable for leveling on a moments notice)

Now, angel gear was never meant to be crappy items, used for looks. Why were they created? Players at the beginning of the Humania cap, (who capped in fang) needed some average gear in humania pve. If you want to test, go solo unelixered in humania with a crafted l65 set. Haha ya. Angel provided an incentive and an option for players, who were l66, to level to 70, increase their wealth, and to be able to purchase the very expensive l70 crafted sets.

I hope you understand where I'm coming from.

this ^ very agreeable except from my experience the 66 humanian sets are quite a bit better then angel, but still provide a cheap way for poor players to Pvp.

[Argyros]

Also...
There are no l66 crafted sets. ^^

Anyhow, I read it over, and I give my full support to the communication and extra quests suggestions... I was pondering that the other day actually.

(Look out for another pm by me in the next 24 hours!)

[WhoIsThis]

Very well, so just remove some of the dodge from the angel sets?

What is the consensus on that?

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[ThePvpTwink]

Angel gear was supposed to be exclusive to ppl who bought plat, and it's very good gear in PVE and higher level. They should have unique and slightly stronger stats, but being that they've been released for like a year, I think are op in 66 pvp.

Kind of like the upgrade ring thing but 100000 will discourage those who do not play as much

[WhoIsThis]

So do you feel they should be brought to Lilith, Orlok, and Sanguine level or just given a dodge nerf?

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[Everyone'sFavMage]

Str set is fine. Completely outdone by humanian 66 sets. Talon set is a talon set, it's for birds with not so much skill, maybe a little less dodge would be nice. The int set could use a dodge debuff and perhaps a small damage increase, or armor increase. So substitute for the loss in dodge %

[lilgangster]

Man I surely hope 76 isn't it, I spent so much money to get to lvl 76 after I came back from a few months of not playing, now my plat is in the triple digits and surely I'd hope to spend it on a future cap.

[Heroelite]

So do you feel they should be brought to Lilith, Orlok, and Sanguine level or just given a dodge nerf?

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I think they require a slight dodge nerf. As Everyone'sfavmage said, the 66 humanian sets are better then angel. (in most cases)
They shouldn't be nerfed to the stats of the mount fang gear (lilith, orlok, sanguine) because remember, angel is 66 and that includes gear from a campaign higher.

It would be great if the devs showed some communication. I think many of us just want them to share the love rather than them focusing it on the new games!

I really like the elite quest idea! It's rewarding while still being very difficult and helps newer toons catch up. But I just don't think a vanity with stats should be available. It's been argued for a while but most agree that founder helms should never be matched or they kind of lose their value. And I think you meant 5 damage 5 armor instead of 5 dodge.

[Caiahar]

In reply to your second post..
The rhino could use boosting, many people disagree with me here. I have made a thread in pvp section, named How the damage Nerf affected rhinos. I have posted suggestions, that would benefit rhino both in Pvp and PvE.
1. At your question, would you rather choose rhino or bear? Many people would choose bear, because the bear has high dmg and can kill. So suggestion one would be:
Increase the crit and dmg buff on the rhinos Vital Force. 24 dmg and 7/8% crit at level 6 is way too low. Every class has a buff that provides good amount of crit/dmg.
Bears: Rage, gives crit and dmg.
Mage: Offensive Blessing (cannot remember which), gives crit and dmg
Bird: Focus, gives crit
Fox: Rage Tonic, gives crit and dmg.
I believe the dmg on Vital force should be increased from 24 to somewhere around 40, and raise the crit% to a higher %, im not too knowledgeable about what number is decent for crit, but I know 7 crit is too low, and should be raised higher. It might seem OP, but rhinos already have lower dmg skills than other class.

2. Rhinos don't have reliable debuffs. The rhinos Summon, only does -12 dodge and -18 h/p level 6, and IMO its a fail buff. Holy Tempest only has 45% to reduce 30 hit at level 6, and its not a very reliable debuff as Hellscream would be. Foxes may not have good debuffs either, but they make up for it by swiftly attacking with high dmg.
Suggestion: Increase Holy Tempests % to debuff hit higher, although if your suggestion to make debuffs always hit were to be implemented, this wouldn't be a problem. Also, make it so its -hit goes higher when you rank it up, not that its always -30.
Make summon an armor debuff, and possibly dmg debuff, as the dodge debuff is of no use. This would also give another reason to put points in summon in PvE, to gather aggro and also de buff them.
Change it to -30 armor at level 6, or -25 and -20 if OP.
I dont think a -dmg debuff would be needed, as the rhino is very tanky and can survive hits.

[WhoIsThis]

I think they require a slight dodge nerf. As Everyone'sfavmage said, the 66 humanian sets are better then angel. (in most cases)
They shouldn't be nerfed to the stats of the mount fang gear (lilith, orlok, sanguine) because remember, angel is 66 and that includes gear from a campaign higher.

It would be great if the devs showed some communication. I think many of us just want them to share the love rather than them focusing it on the new games!

Very well dodge nerf it is since that's the consensus.

I really like the elite quest idea! It's rewarding while still being very difficult and helps newer toons catch up. But I just don't think a vanity with stats should be available. It's been argued for a while but most agree that founder helms should never be matched or they kind of lose their value. And I think you meant 5 damage 5 armor instead of 5 dodge.

It's controversial I know. I'm still of the opinion that the founder's helm should be matched, although it should not look like a "founders" helm (more like something like the crown of persistence), but I feel that the stats should be matched strictly for PvP balance purposes and to give a strong incentive for people to pursue the 3rd quest. The reason why I say that is because compared to the red dragon, the black one only offers 1H/S and 1M/S more. Not a huge advantage imo. You are in essence asking people to run do a 100k run for 1m/s and 1h/s. So I feel additional incentive is needed, and I very much believe that it's best to let new players gain a level field in equipment.

I've corrected the founder's helm.

In reply to your second post..
The rhino could use boosting, many people disagree with me here. I have made a thread in pvp section, named How the damage Nerf affected rhinos. I have posted suggestions, that would benefit rhino both in Pvp and PvE.
...

2. Rhinos don't have reliable debuffs. The rhinos Summon, only does -12 dodge and -18 h/p level 6, and IMO its a fail buff. Holy Tempest only has 45% to reduce 30 hit at level 6, and its not a very reliable debuff as Hellscream would be. Foxes may not have good debuffs either, but they make up for it by swiftly attacking with high dmg.
Suggestion: Increase Holy Tempests % to debuff hit higher, although if your suggestion to make debuffs always hit were to be implemented, this wouldn't be a problem. Also, make it so its -hit goes higher when you rank it up, not that its always -30.
Make summon an armor debuff, and possibly dmg debuff, as the dodge debuff is of no use. This would also give another reason to put points in summon in PvE, to gather aggro and also de buff them.
Change it to -30 armor at level 6, or -25 and -20 if OP.
I dont think a -dmg debuff would be needed, as the rhino is very tanky and can survive hits.

It may very well come down to that.

The other issue that I did not address for PvP was the role of the rhino and fox in CTF - they can run past and don't have to fight their way through.

[Trenton]

In reply to your second post..
The rhino could use boosting, many people disagree with me here. I have made a thread in pvp section, named How the damage Nerf affected rhinos. I have posted suggestions, that would benefit rhino both in Pvp and PvE.
1. At your question, would you rather choose rhino or bear? Many people would choose bear, because the bear has high dmg and can kill. So suggestion one would be:
Increase the crit and dmg buff on the rhinos Vital Force. 24 dmg and 7/8% crit at level 6 is way too low. Every class has a buff that provides good amount of crit/dmg.
Bears: Rage, gives crit and dmg.
Mage: Offensive Blessing (cannot remember which), gives crit and dmg
Bird: Focus, gives crit
Fox: Rage Tonic, gives crit and dmg.
I believe the dmg on Vital force should be increased from 24 to somewhere around 40, and raise the crit% to a higher %, im not too knowledgeable about what number is decent for crit, but I know 7 crit is too low, and should be raised higher. It might seem OP, but rhinos already have lower dmg skills than other class.

2. Rhinos don't have reliable debuffs. The rhinos Summon, only does -12 dodge and -18 h/p level 6, and IMO its a fail buff. Holy Tempest only has 45% to reduce 30 hit at level 6, and its not a very reliable debuff as Hellscream would be. Foxes may not have good debuffs either, but they make up for it by swiftly attacking with high dmg.
Suggestion: Increase Holy Tempests % to debuff hit higher, although if your suggestion to make debuffs always hit were to be implemented, this wouldn't be a problem. Also, make it so its -hit goes higher when you rank it up, not that its always -30.
Make summon an armor debuff, and possibly dmg debuff, as the dodge debuff is of no use. This would also give another reason to put points in summon in PvE, to gather aggro and also de buff them.
Change it to -30 armor at level 6, or -25 and -20 if OP.
I dont think a -dmg debuff would be needed, as the rhino is very tanky and can survive hits.

I love this, because the debuffs are an absolute joke even at L9. At L9, (66+ duh) Taunt gives -20 dodge. That is DEFINITELY not worth putting 9 points into, and L9 Holy Tempest only gives a 60% chance to -30 hit%. The crit buff does suck, and needs boosting, and everyone freaks out about this because "OMG 20 RHINOS WOULD BE SO OP ONO" and when in reality all that needs done is a L20 plat pack nerf.

My question is-

Where is part two of this so called "Great Nerf of 2013?"

They told us there would be a part two, and the part two sounded fabulous. Did that disappear too, just like the expected cap? Or are they really waiting on months of feedback for them to correctly fix it? If that, they need to tell us so, just like if there will ever be a new cap. I would also like to say that I love your threads, Whoisthis, they're all so detailed and well written out, thanks for sharing with us

That's all my rant Good luck with the other feedback, seems to be a great constructive thread