Players using more than 4 skills - Developers Please Read! :)

[dantus]

Imo skill/pet swapping is designed to be done OUT OF COMBAT in between maps or fights. Suggesting that because we have more than 4 skills available means that swapping skills I'm the middle of combat was an intended function is EXACTLY the same as suggesting that because we have more than 1 pet available to us that it is intended for us to continually swap pets and use their arcane ability mid combat. A simple solution for both would be to lock the menu out entirely when IN COMBAT. I also believe that classes are balanced around 4 skills at any given time that is why different abilities have different cooldowns.

[Solid]

Imo skill/pet swapping is designed to be done OUT OF COMBAT in between maps or fights. Suggesting that because we have more than 4 skills available means that swapping skills I'm the middle of combat was an intended function is EXACTLY the same as suggesting that because we have more than 1 pet available to us that it is intended for us to continually swap pets and use their arcane ability mid combat. A simple solution for both would be to lock the menu out entirely when IN COMBAT. I also believe that classes are balanced around 4 skills at any given time that is why different abilities have different cooldowns.

+1.

[Venom]

It works out perfectly for tanks, use jugg swap it out with vb, use VB twice, then swap back to jugg.

And yes I tried it, I felt cheap.

Yes, you would feel cheap because you probably used the cheap pet, cheap gear on your warrior as its a low level. You don't even require 5 skills at lower levels than 30 as the mage/rogues don't deal as much damage. That feeling of being cheap is just you though. There are many warriors who practice this, including me and we really love it. It has taken the tanking abilities to the next level. All you expect is the rogue should be OP. As you and everyone else here knows a rogue has the same build in pvp - Sp, Nox, Aimed, Heal. There, your job is done with 4 skills as you get 3 attack and 1 heal skill. Now, the warrior and mage, they have a buff and a heal skill in pvp in general. Shield gives armor buff on mage, VB gives many buffs on warrior. So they are left with just 2 attack skills. So try to think from other class perspective as well.

[dantus]

Yes, you would feel cheap because you probably used the cheap pet, cheap gear on your warrior as its a low level. You don't even require 5 skills at lower levels than 30 as the mage/rogues don't deal as much damage. That feeling of being cheap is just you though. There are many warriors who practice this, including me and we really love it. It has taken the tanking abilities to the next level. All you expect is the rogue should be OP. As you and everyone else here knows a rogue has the same build in pvp - Sp, Nox, Aimed, Heal. There, your job is done with 4 skills as you get 3 attack and 1 heal skill. Now, the warrior and mage, they have a buff and a heal skill in pvp in general. Shield gives armor buff on mage, VB gives many buffs on warrior. So they are left with just 2 attack skills. So try to think from other class perspective as well.

"There are many warriors who practice this, including me and we really love it" this made me lol.

[Limsi]

I'm not sure though but if I can recall during the past 2 official tourneys, it was a rule that no one should be allowed to re summon a pet and switch skills during the actual battle. If it's true, then I believe it was implemented for a purpose. Again I might be wrong!

[Solid]

Yes, you would feel cheap because you probably used the cheap pet, cheap gear on your warrior as its a low level. You don't even require 5 skills at lower levels than 30 as the mage/rogues don't deal as much damage. That feeling of being cheap is just you though. There are many warriors who practice this, including me and we really love it. It has taken the tanking abilities to the next level. All you expect is the rogue should be OP. As you and everyone else here knows a rogue has the same build in pvp - Sp, Nox, Aimed, Heal. There, your job is done with 4 skills as you get 3 attack and 1 heal skill. Now, the warrior and mage, they have a buff and a heal skill in pvp in general. Shield gives armor buff on mage, VB gives many buffs on warrior. So they are left with just 2 attack skills. So try to think from other class perspective as well.

Used crawly, maxed tarlok gear almost full super, l25 tank,

I beat hooks.

Buff said?

[Limsi]

I believe none of you has actually played end game PvP as sorc. So spare us the generalized conclusion jump just because wars (that's your class isn't it?) can survive without 5th.

It may not be intended for a 5th skill to roll in mid-fight, but it's been done in previous legends games and no one ever complained. I don't see how suddenly it's an issue just because we get to win 2/5 fights now instead of 0 or 1.

He's actually an end game pvp mage who's also in the leaderboards. No offense!

[Madnex]

I believe none of you has actually played end game PvP as sorc. So spare us the generalized conclusion jump just because wars (that's your class isn't it?) can survive without 5th.

It may not be intended for a 5th skill to roll in mid-fight, but it's been done in previous legends games and no one ever complained. I don't see how suddenly it's an issue just because we get to win 2/5 fights now instead of 0 or 1.

[Solid]

@omni
Both the OP and Dantus are endgame sorcerer that are "pro".

I'm not trying to be rude, but when I saw you in town, you weren't even properly geared.

[Madnex]

He's actually an end game pvp mage who's also in the leaderboards. No offense!

I'm not offended at all, I made a pure speculation based on luck. My next guess happens to be accurate though: PvP sorc who's not using 5th. How about that?

And the fact he's on LB is probably worsening my idea about him since pretty much everyone apart from people in timed runs sections farm to keep/raise their rank.

We've been through these a lot of times. Anyone who can't use 5th; rogues because they claim inefficiency/don't have the skill to do it and fellow sorcs who simply can't use it because they lack the experience to, those are the opposing side.

For the last time, it's not a glitch, nor a trick that only few have access to neither any form of unethical cheating. It's a feasible way to combat the current sorc's disadvantaged position when 1v1'ing rogues or wars. And it's available for anyone, both on chrome and phone.



Although I like new people joining the debate, I can't help but think ctf's efforts on guild and public chat calling for people to support her side finally worked. Not a call to add their opinion; a call to blindly support hers. A word comes in mind. Yes, it's sad.

@omni
Both the OP and Dantus are endgame sorcerer that are "pro".

I'm not trying to be rude, but when I saw you in town, you weren't even properly geared.

I also saw you in town. I take it you're unaware of my alts, so I'd like to keep it that way for now. The only thing this new merch toon lacks is a proper mythic staff, which is currently in use on main. Everything else's grand gemmed myths; mostly grand wisdoms with a few grand glacials.

It's fun how you haven't spotted my main yet.

[Venom]

I'm not sure though but if I can recall during the past 2 official tourneys, it was a rule that no one should be allowed to re summon a pet and switch skills during the actual battle. If it's true, then I believe it was implemented for a purpose. Again I might be wrong!

Pet switching/resummon or respeccing in between matches wasn't allowed. Remap and a respec are 2 different things.

[Solid]

I'm not offended at all, I made a pure speculation based on luck. My next guess happens to be accurate though: PvP sorc who's not using 5th. How about that?

And the fact he's on LB is probably worsening my idea about him since pretty much everyone apart from people in timed runs sections farm to keep/raise their rank.

We've been through these a lot of times. Anyone who can't use 5th; rogues because they claim inefficiency/don't have the skill to do it and fellow sorcs who simply can't use it because they lack the experience to, those are the opposing side.

For the last time, it's not a glitch, nor a trick that only few have access to neither any form of unethical cheating. It's a feasible way to combat the current sorc's disadvantaged position when 1v1'ing rogues or wars. And it's available for anyone, both on chrome and phone.



Although I like new people joining the debate, I can't help but think ctf's efforts on guild and public chat calling for people to support her side finally worked. Not a call to add their opinion; a call to blindly support hers. A word comes in mind. Yes, it's sad.

I'm sure dantus and ener have tried using 5/6 skills but realized the inequality bequeathed in it.

You say everyone on the LB farms, this is because you are not on the LB and have no idea how long it takes to get on it, coming from a season 1 player...


Your saying that a because a sorc is "doomed" in 1v1 they have a right to swap skills? This is because, (no offence) you are not a good mage or don't know any good mages.

There are many mages that can kill rogues with simply 4 skills.

Yes, I ask my friends for support, that's what friends do.. Support you when you need support.

I suggest joining a new clique or making some good friends. (No offence)

[dantus]

I'm not offended at all, I made a pure speculation based on luck. My next guess happens to be accurate though: PvP sorc who's not using 5th. How about that?

And the fact he's on LB is probably worsening my idea about him since pretty much everyone apart from people in timed runs sections farm to keep/raise their rank.

We've been through these a lot of times. Anyone who can't use 5th; rogues because they claim inefficiency/don't have the skill to do it and fellow sorcs who simply can't use it because they lack the experience to, those are the opposing side.

For the last time, it's not a glitch, nor a trick that only few have access to neither any form of unethical cheating. It's a feasible way to combat the current sorc's disadvantaged position when 1v1'ing rogues or wars. And it's available for anyone, both on chrome and phone.



Although I like new people joining the debate, I can't help but think ctf's efforts on guild and public chat calling for people to support her side finally worked. Not a call to add their opinion; a call to blindly support hers. A word comes in mind. Yes, it's sad.

If this was actually a viable way to combat class imbalance (which its not) you only make it more difficult for developers to balance the classes by keeping this an option. At endgame skill swapping or not a mage ain't gonna beat a fully geared *competent* tank. Another possible fix is to simply add slots to skill map. This would likely cause more balancing issues though because as I said before CLASSES ARE BALANCED AROUND 4 ACTIVE SKILLS IN COMBAT.

[Limsi]

For the record, I came here to my own accord. I've been following the previous thread which contained more of the nastier replies and got fed up, in which I then decided to shift my attention here. :P

[Solid]

If this was actually a viable way to combat class imbalance (which its not) you only make it more difficult for developers to balance the classes by keeping this an option. At endgame skill swapping or not a mage ain't gonna beat a fully geared *competent* tank. Another possible fix is to simply add slots to skill map. This would likely cause more balancing issues though because as I said before CLASSES ARE BALANCED AROUND 4 ACTIVE SKILLS IN COMBAT.

Correct, the game developers attempted to create class equality on the idea that you would use 4 skills, not 5/6/7/8.

[Madnex]

I'm sure dantus and ener have tried using 5/6 skills but realized the inequality bequeathed in it.

No, you might be right about me not being "more pro" than ener and the dant dude, I just can't say because I've barely played with them. Six is inefficient unless the opponent runs for it. There's no other safe gap mid-fight that allows second switch and swapping an attack skill is plain useless on any scenario. Even if they have tried, they've probably failed and gave up. It takes much more skill to use 5th as sorc than war, truth be told. And no matter how experiened you think they are, skill swap is a completely different thing from charging skills and walking around; it's a new process, one you have to time precisely.

You say everyone on the LB farms, this is because you are not on the LB and have no idea how long it takes to get on it, coming from a season 1 player...

FYI, I know quite a few people that have been on LB on season 1-2 and I'm aware that most of them purely spent an awfully long time on. That's past though; I've bumped on farmers from the current LB a lot lately. About PvE, I've seen and recorded patterns and behaviours that can only be explained by use of automated means. And not just anyone, I'm talking about people who share a spot at "top" players.

While I have caught only 2 people from lower LB self-farming myself, there's a new hobby out there. To take pics of anyone you see farming like that. I was going to make a thread about it with a lot of material but I was stopped because we're not supposed to name other people here or whatever. We even have people from LB admitting that they cheat in such ways openly. So yeah, I'm pretty convinced that normal playtime, no matter how extended, can't catch up. Therefore, the whole LB has been pushed into self/dummy-farming.

It's an adjust or get passed situation but it doesn't change the fact that the majority does it. [/quote]

Your saying that a because a sorc is "doomed" in 1v1 they have a right to swap skills? This is because, (no offence) you are not a good mage or don't know any good mages.
There are many mages that can kill rogues with simply 4 skills.

I never said it's impossible. With top myth gear and arcane pet/staff an experienced sorc has a 10-15% window to win against a same level geared rogue, but that's not the occassion most of the times. The chance to win is disappointing itself, even without taking note of the decent rogue-sorc player percentage out there. There are way more rogues. And 1v1 is diamond rare since even if it starts as one and the opponent thinks he's at disadvantage, he'll just run back in the protection of the group. Like he/she is used to. Pathetic but let's face it; there's no real PvP out there, just flagging and unorganized ganging on undergeared players.

Yes, I ask my friends for support, that's what friends do.. Support you when you need support.
I suggest joining a new clique or making some good friends. (No offence)

I'm not offended because I never considered calling my friends or guildmates as back up to support my own incapabilities. I brought statistical evidence, solid proof that rogues should keep it down about 5th.

You pushed people to support your own claims. Of course as friends they'll instantly back up what you say, the same way those great sorcs happened not to be able to use 5th. If they can't relate to a matter since for the most part it's unknown to them, how could you dragging them in ever result in unbiased and constructive thread feedback?


I'll be closing my rather large contributive post count on this thread with this.
Numbers are unprejudiced, people aren't.

[dantus]

I'm not offended at all, I made a pure speculation based on luck. My next guess happens to be accurate though: PvP sorc who's not using 5th. How about that?

And the fact he's on LB is probably worsening my idea about him since pretty much everyone apart from people in timed runs sections farm to keep/raise their rank.

We've been through these a lot of times. Anyone who can't use 5th; rogues because they claim inefficiency/don't have the skill to do it and fellow sorcs who simply can't use it because they lack the experience to, those are the opposing side.

For the last time, it's not a glitch, nor a trick that only few have access to neither any form of unethical cheating. It's a feasible way to combat the current sorc's disadvantaged position when 1v1'ing rogues or wars. And it's available for anyone, both on chrome and phone.



Although I like new people joining the debate, I can't help but think ctf's efforts on guild and public chat calling for people to support her side finally worked. Not a call to add their opinion; a call to blindly support hers. A word comes in mind. Yes, it's sad.








I also saw you in town. I take it you're unaware of my alts, so I'd like to keep it that way for now. The only thing this new merch toon lacks is a proper mythic staff, which is currently in use on main. Everything else's grand gemmed myths; mostly grand wisdoms with a few grand glacials.

It's fun how you haven't spotted my main yet.

1. I can't recall a single time I've been asked to support someone's thread. I'm not supporting ctf, but rather giving my opinion.
2. You assume I farm kills because I'm on the leaderboard? I have roughly a 1.1:1kdr in ctf 2:1kdr in tdm.does that sound like a kill farmers kdr? I stick it out in tough fights and I play fairly.
3. Your just arguing an illogical point, and are counterproductive to balancing classes.

[Erdnase]

Im fine with making some changes to this if it stops the abuse with hotkeys. The easiest solution to my knowledge would be to have skill effects go away once unmapped. For example, if a war used jug then switched it to something else, the buffs of jug would go away. The no changing a cool-down skill i could live with too, but i think this is more practical. It would leave me the ability to switch to heal after a fight then back to shield, which is my primary use of changing anyway. If taking away the ability to use 5 skills at once also leads to a buff for my class i would be more than happy as well, but the main goal i see here is to stop hotkey abuse.

[Sky_is_epicgearz]

lock swapping of skills when the player ISNT in the rest stance

[Solid]

No, you might be right about me not being "more pro" than ener and the dant dude, I just can't say because I've barely played with them. Six is inefficient unless the opponent runs for it. There's no other safe gap mid-fight that allows second switch and swapping an attack skill is plain useless on any scenario. Even if they have tried, they've probably failed and gave up. It takes much more skill to use 5th as sorc than war, truth be told. And no matter how experiened you think they are, skill swap is a completely different thing from charging skills and walking around; it's a new process, one you have to time precisely.



FYI, I know quite a few people that have been on LB on season 1-2 and I'm aware that most of them purely spent an awfully long time on. That's past though; I've bumped on farmers from the current LB a lot lately. About PvE, I've seen and recorded patterns and behaviours that can only be explained by use of automated means. And not just anyone, I'm talking about people who share a spot at "top" players.

While I have caught only 2 people from lower LB self-farming myself, there's a new hobby out there. To take pics of anyone you see farming like that. I was going to make a thread about it with a lot of material but I was stopped because we're not supposed to name other people here or whatever. We even have people from LB admitting that they cheat in such ways openly. So yeah, I'm pretty convinced that normal playtime, no matter how extended, can't catch up. Therefore, the whole LB has been pushed into self/dummy-farming.

It's an adjust or get passed situation but it doesn't change the fact that the majority does it.

I never said it's impossible. With top myth gear and arcane pet/staff an experienced sorc has a 10-15% window to win against a same level geared rogue, but that's not the occassion most of the times. The chance to win is disappointing itself, even without taking note of the decent rogue-sorc player percentage out there. There are way more rogues. And 1v1 is diamond rare since even if it starts as one and the opponent thinks he's at disadvantage, he'll just run back in the protection of the group. Like he/she is used to. Pathetic but let's face it; there's no real PvP out there, just flagging and unorganized ganging on undergeared players.



I'm not offended because I never considered calling my friends or guildmates as back up to support my own incapabilities. I brought statistical evidence, solid proof that rogues should keep it down about 5th.

You pushed people to support your own claims. Of course as friends they'll instantly back up what you say, the same way those great sorcs happened not to be able to use 5th. If they can't relate to a matter since for the most part it's unknown to them, how could you dragging them in ever result in unbiased and constructive thread feedback?


I'll be closing my rather large contributive post count on this thread with this.
Numbers are unprejudiced, people aren't.[/QUOTE]

Like I stated before, 4 is efficient , if you are good. And no it doesn't take more "skill" to swap as a sorc then as a warrior.

Also approximately 75% of the LB is the same as previous seasons, the timed runs people will get their records, the kills people will get their spot on the kills board, very rarely will a farmer or a hardcore player enter the kills board.

All of your statements seem to be biased making everything YOU say biased, for example -."can't catch up","the whole LBs has been pushed into self/dummy-farming etc.

You are actually very blind, as a rogue I can easily do 500 kills a day in CTF and 200 flags if I fully devote myself to PvP, a small minority of cheaters make up the LB but nonetheless they are a detriment. So it is very possible for a newcomer to make the LBs.

10-15% to kill a rogue? As I stated earlier, you do not know any "pro" mages. Several mages can kill rogues consistently, not 10-15%.

Your last point, you have never brought guildies or friends to support your incapiblities. You also said you brought statistical evidence, what? All you did was make wild generalizations and opinions, no actually facts were presented in your counter. I never asked my guildies for support on my incapabilities nor can I make them, I can ask for CONSTRUCTIVE feedback, like I said earlier; friends are a completely different topic and highly doubt you have actually had a clique of TRUE friends. I don't push or force people for support, merely honest feedback.