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  Click here to go to the first Dev post in this thread.   Thread: What do you want to know about Champs?

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    Tournament & Ladder Leader XghostzX's Avatar
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    Default What do you want to know about Champs?

    After devoting a hand full of hours of Champs, I'm beginning to get a strong feel for the mechanics and type of game that is to be expected. As Gary said it, I'm having a tough time putting down the game - the teamplay experience feels extremely rewarding after a win! I have no doubts you are all going to love it.

    That said, I would love to answer any basic questions you guys may have. Gary, and many of the other devs, are very busy actually playing and developing the soon-to-be STG hit. I think they wouldn't mind having some individuals speak on their behalf in terms of the gameplay.

    What questions do you guys have? Keep in mind that there are some things that are limited to discuss - but topics such as champions, gameplay, competitveness/strategy - I'd be more than happy to share!

    I will post my initial thoughts of the game regardless if there are no questions. But feel free to start asking!
    Last edited by Justg; 04-27-2015 at 03:34 PM. Reason: Better abbreviation for the game :)

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    1. Are their any skill shots, if so how are placed. Such a tap and swipe or just tap.

    2. Is their any sort of jungle with bonuses or power ups that can be contested.

    3. How many abilities does each champ have and do the champs have a passive.

    4. From what I've read it seems like a tie/stalemate is possible, what happens in these cases.

    5. Is there a rune page of some sort if not that could be a money making device.

    6. Has anybody figured out the matchmaking/Elo algorithm. If so what is it.

    7. How is map movement. Is it polished and crisp or do you get caught in walls or in particle effects.

    8. Is orb walking/stutter stepping a possibility or will the game support it. Auto attack animations have to be fast for this to function.

    9. What debuffs and crowd control have you discovered. Any stuns, silences, slows, bleeds, etc.

    10. Also what engine is the game running on?

    That is all for now.



    Sincerely,
    SELENAGOMEZ
    Last edited by Arpluvial; 04-27-2015 at 11:02 PM. Reason: Removed inappropriate language

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    I don't have any MOBA experience. How steep is the learning curve for casual players would you say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XghostzX View Post
    After devoting a hand full of hours of CoC, I'm beginning to get a strong feel for the mechanics and type of game that is to be expected. As Gary said it, I'm having a tough time putting down the game - the teamplay experience feels extremely rewarding after a win! I have no doubts you are all going to love it.

    That said, I would love to answer any basic questions you guys may have. Gary, and many of the other devs, are very busy actually playing and developing the soon-to-be STG hit. I think they wouldn't mind having some individuals speak on their behalf in terms of the gameplay.

    What questions do you guys have? Keep in mind that there are some things that are limited to discuss - but topics such as champions, gameplay, competitveness/strategy - I'd be more than happy to share!

    I will post my initial thoughts of the game regardless if there are no questions. But feel free to start asking!
    Just a quick question. I noticed some Champions were not playable. Is this because they are still in development because of the early Alpha state, or must they be unlocked? Thanks!

    -Glorbuk

    Creds to Doframingo/Dofrazeus for the Sig!

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    If it is alright with Ghost I will also answer questions posted on this thread.

    -Vys

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    Quote Originally Posted by Default0519 View Post
    1. Are their any skill shots, if so how are placed. Such a tap and swipe or just tap.

    2. Is their any sort of jungle with bonuses or power ups that can be contested.

    3. How many abilities does each champ have and do the champs have a passive.

    4. From what I've read it seems like a tie/stalemate is possible, what happens in these cases.

    5. Is there a rune page of some sort if not that could be a money making device.

    6. Has anybody figured out the matchmaking/Elo algorithm. If so what is it.

    7. How is map movement. Is it polished and crisp or do you get caught in walls or in particle effects.

    8. Is orb walking/stutter stepping a possibility or will the game support it. Auto attack animations have to be fast for this to function.

    9. What debuffs and crowd control have you discovered. Any stuns, silences, slows, bleeds, etc.

    10. Also what engine is the game running on?

    That is all for now.



    Sincerely,
    SELENAGOMEZ
    1. Could you elaborate on what you mean by "skill shots"? There are various types of skills which requires either one or two taps. For instance, most damage skills (typically single target skills) require you to activate the skill by tapping it, and then another tap in the direction you want the skill to go. Keep in mind, all skills have a certain range. What STG did that's very nice is each time you press the skill, a visual field will tell you how far the range of the skill can go. Additionally, some skills (such as various AOE attacks and buffs/heals) only require one tap of the skill. In other words, everything is tap-tap, no sliding action.

    2. I'm not sure what you mean by jungle, but there are various locations within the single map that provides bonuses AND team powerups. In the very center of the map, there is a platform that, with the initiative of a single player, grants a team powerup (armor, haste, speed, or damage) after standing in it for a very short period of time. There are a couple of other fixated locations that provide individual bonuses, including haste, damage, and speed. Sometimes when you kill an opponent, a random powerup will drop. So far the power ups have not been OP but they are significant to the point that you strategically want to grab these bad-boys whenever possible.

    3. Each champ has 5 skills/abilities. Not every champ will have a passive skill, but the majority do. For instance, there is a mage class that shoots a fireball, dealing initial damage and damage over time.

    4. A tie is possible - but it is EXTREMELY unlikely. A team automatically wins if the enemy base is destroyed. In an evenly match game, that is difficult to do (again, reiterating the strategy needed). In order to destroy the enemy base, you need to destroy enemy towers (which can attack you... I will explain enemy towers in more details). Enemy bases > towers. Suppose the amount of towers destroyed for both teams is tied up which you will see can happen often. It comes down to the number of kills each team has (again, strategy. It's important to include tanks/fighters to destroy towers and assassins/mages to provide the must need kills). Suppose the number of towers destroyed AND the number of kills are exactly the same - it then comes down to the amount of damage dealt.

    Enemy Base > Towers > Kills > Damage > Tie

    It is nearly impossible to get a tie, but it could happen.

    5. Can you explain on your "rune page"? Do you mean runes that enhance the abilities of champions? If so, I have no idea - Alpha's current stage is character balance and strategical analysis.

    6. Matchmaking is still being reworked with. Currently in Alpha, we do not have the ability to add friends (we have to contact each other prior to playing in order to play live matches against one another). The matchmaking system is pretty neat, however. When you choose to make a custom game, you'll be prompted to choose your champion. After doing so, it will tell you "waiting". In this time, all players who are in the queue have the ability to press "Force Start Team" or "Force Start VS." All that means is that all real players in the queue can will automatically be put onto the same team or randomly against one another. If there are any non-users (it is 3v3) then those spots will be filled with bots. It has so far been pretty convenient, but I would like to see a system where STS can allow users to know when their teammates have actually chosen a champion and are signaled to begin the match.

    7. Character movement has been nice so far. The speed of gameplay has been thrilling but very controllable - fast enough so you don't get bored making the walk once you die (especially because the more times you die, the longer the respawn time is -- don't die!) You will not get caught in walls or any obstacles. There are a couple of bugs where sometimes a skill will be activated and everyone freezes/appears idle - this is currently undergoing development.

    8. In terms of orb walking/stutter stepping, I see how this can be important. the system that STG runs with the orbs is that the more players pushing a single orb, the faster it moves. So no, there are no ways to stutter step - you have to make sure you kind of tap back and forth to make sure you do not get ahead of the orb, but that you are also behind it close enough. As I'm typing this, I could see this as a useful suggestion which I'll definitely bring up.

    9. There are a hand-full of debuffs, silences, slows, bleeds etc. Supporters are excellent for removing any crowd control effects, while some assassins have the ability to escape immediate crowd control effects. One of these main topics we are discussing, however, is that perhaps there are too many stuns going around. Personally, I would like to see the Tanks/fighters having the most stuns while the mage/assassin focus on damage and the supporters to clear those crowd controls. But as of now, the system is pretty nifty and in good shape (in my perspective).

    10. I do not know what engine the game is running on - might be a question for the dev.
    Last edited by Arpluvial; 04-27-2015 at 11:02 PM. Reason: Removed inappropriate language in quote

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    Quote Originally Posted by Candylicks View Post
    I don't have any MOBA experience. How steep is the learning curve for casual players would you say.
    Whether this surprises you or not, I am no expert to MOBA's. The learning curve is a very smooth transition for newer players - the goal is rather simple, I found out, and what you'll continue learning is that each new champion can deploy some sort of new tactic. It did take me a few matches to understand what was going on, but honestly, within an hour or so I was able to understand what was going on. By no means have I "mastered" any champions (partially because some of the champions are still under development and are not accessible), but you begin to become very comfortable with their style of play. So yes - as a gamer who doesn't have much experience with MOBA's I was able to learn the fundamentals fairly quickly and with ease - but the real strategy and challenge will come from learning how to play with your preferred champions/teammates. STG has done an incredible job with balancing simplicity and strategy - that is why I am in love with the game right now!

    @Glorbuk - Some of the champions are still under development. Current alpha testers are focusing on the early "tiers" (not sure if this is the right word) of champions. But yes, some champions as of now can only be unlocked by having the previous champion unlocked.

    @Vys - I would be more than happy if you could chime in at any time

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    Ok when I refer to jungle it's an area of the map that has neutral minions monsters and/or buffs/debuffs.

    Skill shots are abilities that aren't just tap the target you want to hit they have to be aimed in some sort of fashion.

    As for orb walking/stutter stepping you missed my point. Orb walking/stutter stepping are terms to auto attack faster than your attack speed. You target and enemy auto attack move and target again. The best players can do this so fast that the sound of the auto attack animations doesn't even register. The best players in any Moba use this skill habitually as it gives a huge advantage.

    I also highly advise anybody who is new to Mobas to add me as a friend or pm me as I can be a big help and also if you download the other tablet Moba I will play with you and explain mechanics and give you some valuable experience to lower the steep learning curve mobas tend to have.

    Sincerely,
    SELENAGOMEZ
    Last edited by Arpluvial; 04-27-2015 at 11:13 PM. Reason: Removed inappropriate language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Default0519 View Post
    Ok when I refer to jungle it's an area of the map that has neutral minions monsters and/or buffs/debuffs.

    Skill shots are abilities that aren't just tap the target you want to hit they have to be aimed in some sort of fashion.

    As for orb walking/stutter stepping you missed my point. Orb walking/stutter stepping are terms to auto attack faster than your attack speed. You target and enemy auto attack move and target again. The best players can do this so fast that the sound of the auto attack animations doesn't even register. The best players in any Moba use this skill habitually as it gives a huge advantage.

    I also highly advise anybody who is new to Mobas to add me as a friend or pm me as I can be a big help and also if you download the other tablet Moba I will play with you and explain mechanics and give you some valuable experience to lower the steep learning curve mobas tend to have.

    Sincerely,
    SELENAGOMEZ
    Sorry, I'm not as familiar with MOBA terms!

    1. Yes there is a jungle area in the center of the map that provides only buffs as of now. There are no neutral minions.

    2. Skill shots are in use. It is not as simple as tapping on the target... you have to actually aim in the direction you want to go (so any attack will not just automatically hit a target, you have to time it properly).

    2. Still not fully understanding the concept of orb walking/shutter stepping. The only auto attack system in CoC is that once you tap the enemy, it will automatically attack that enemy with its basic skill (so no, there is nothing here to exploit by tapping any faster... your auto attack/attack speed will remain the same). Maybe I am still missing the point, but this is also a mobile game - it is much easier to exploit the small things on PC games.
    Last edited by Arpluvial; 04-27-2015 at 11:02 PM. Reason: Removed inappropriate language in quote.

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    Ok I'm going to explain orb walking/stutter stepping and why it works especially for ranged heroes.
    When you target an enemy the auto/basic attack animation kicks in. Now for this to be viable the auto/basic attack animation has to be fairly quick as well as the projectile speed. After you target and enemy and the auto/basic attack is executed enough where the damage will take place you make the motion to move and then instant target the enemy again. This resets the auto attack animation. This process is used to speed up your auto attacks by skipping part of the animation. You can so this so fast on PC mobas and the other MOBILE mobas that are out there that the sound of the auto attack doesn't register.

    To make things simple what takes place is after your auto attack registers by moving around slightly then re targeting the enemy it resets the auto attack animations and therefore increases your attack speed.

    Sincerely,
    SELENAGOMEZ
    Last edited by Arpluvial; 04-27-2015 at 11:14 PM. Reason: Removed inappropriate language.

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    Hope you don't mind if I quote your answers to my questions from the Alpha thread, as I found them very informative. Hopefully it will answer someone else's question(s) so you don't have to type it out again. I'd put in Vys' posts as well, but I don't want this post to take up too much of the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by XghostzX View Post
    I will do my best to answer, great questions

    [Favorite class thus far?]
    1. Of the 5 classes available (Tank, Fighter, Mage, Assassin, Supporter) I have enjoyed playing the mages. Mostly because, with every MMO, mages have always been my preferred role to play. The one class I didn't think I'd like was the Fighter - and I was very wrong (might be my second favorite class as of now, but too early to judge). Mages and assassins are the damage classes, while fighters are the second most tanky and have medium damage. You will find that every class has something unique to bring to the table - I wholeheartedly say this. I can tell that STG carefully thought about the role of classes in the game and have done an excellent job ensuring that no matter what class you play, there is an important role you need to take on.

    [Team synergy and balance?]
    2. It is most certainly crucial to have a balance between classes. I have tried on numerous occasions matches with only tanks, with only mages or supporters... you will find that losing is inevitable with this strategy. If I may provide my honest opinion, I believe STG needs to tweak the supporters a bit - they do an incredible job of freeing teammates from crowd control effects, but they lack overall HP recovery (heals). There are only 2 supporters to use at the moment, so perhaps I may be calling this out too early.

    Your second point however is important. One of the suggestions, which is definitely a must need, is a way to view the classes that YOUR team has chosen prior to starting the match. So as of now - yes this is a pain. This is currently being worked with and talked about. Miss-matches are extremely vital to the flow of teamwork, so i foresee that STG will do something to accommodate this.

    [Simplicity = one-dimensional?]
    3) That is definitely a possibility - it really depends on the beholder, however. For me, I love having that perfect balance between strategy and simplicity (something that STG has done beautifully with CoC). Keep in mind this is a mobile game. There is LOTS of strategy to deploy in the simple allotted time of 5 minutes - you would be quite surprised. All STS games in their early stages have evolved tremendously. I anticipate that within months of the game's release, players will be asking for new maps, new types of matches (CTF for instance). The objective of the game right now is thrilling, and that definitely comes with the excitement and anticipation of the game.

    I've only had a week to play the game, so there is still a lot more to test, analyze, discover, implement and fix. I created a thread in the general discussion which is open to any questions that you guys may have. Great questions, though. Questions like these will help with more suggestions in our alpha testing.
    Edit:
    I've also gone ahead and requested a sticky for this thread to hopefully get more people to see it.
    Last edited by KingFu; 04-27-2015 at 05:33 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Default0519 View Post
    Ok I'm going to explain orb walking/stutter stepping and why it works especially for ranged heroes.
    When you target an enemy the auto/basic attack animation kicks in. Now for this to be viable the auto/basic attack animation has to be fairly quick as well as the projectile speed. After you target and enemy and the auto/basic attack is executed enough where the damage will take place you make the motion to move and then instant target the enemy again. This resets the auto attack animation. This process is used to speed up your auto attacks by skipping part of the animation. You can so this so fast on PC mobas and the other MOBILE mobas that are out there that the sound of the auto attack doesn't register.

    To make things simple what takes place is after your auto attack registers by moving around slightly then re targeting the enemy it resets the auto attack animations and therefore increases your attack speed.

    Sincerely,
    SELENAGOMEZ
    The exact second you click on an enemy, the auto attack will not commence right then and there. There is a small delay from the time you choose an enemy until the auto attack is displayed. So no, I don't think this is something that is currently possible in game. I will look more into this (perhaps Vys can answer this question).
    Last edited by Arpluvial; 04-27-2015 at 11:02 PM. Reason: Removed inappropriate language in quote.

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    Unfortanetly I haven't been able to watch the twitch streams of alpha but how many pvp maps is their you can play on? Only one for now? What gear do you start off with also when you start the game

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ssneakykills View Post
    Unfortanetly I haven't been able to watch the twitch streams of alpha but how many pvp maps is their you can play on? Only one for now? What gear do you start off with also when you start the game
    There is currently only one map - as CoC progresses in the future, I suspect more maps will be added (just my hunch, they have said nothing about new maps).

    There is no acquirable gear. Every character is balanced - there is no difference from two players using the same champion. The only potential difference which I believe (again, this may be different later on) is that there is an option to view your champion's "abilities". I'm not sure if we'll be able to upgrade our champion's abilities or if just by playing and consistently winning they automatically gain new advantages. We'll figure this out soon in the next coming weeks!

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    I haven't played an STG game in a while but this game caught my eye! I'm new to the MOBA genre. I tried playing LoL but hated it, tried Heroes of Order & Chaos but didn't know anything either. Basically I hate MOBAs. But since this is STG I'll definitely try it! Anyways:

    I've often heard the saying "your team is as good as your tank". Do you think this applies to CoC?

    Do you have to choose the target you want to attack? Or is it auto-aim?

    Finally, are you allowed to post screenshots?

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    Whats the minimum spec requirements ganna be to play this. Might have to get a new phone of tablet to play this

    sent from fritters beak

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    Quote Originally Posted by XghostzX View Post
    The exact second you click on an enemy, the auto attack will not commence right then and there. There is a small delay from the time you choose an enemy until the auto attack is displayed. So no, I don't think this is something that is currently possible in game. I will look more into this (perhaps Vys can answer this question).
    Ok, there is orb walking/stutter stepping. Though both these terms are fairly uncommon, kitting may be more appropriate. I have been able to use certain ranged champions to kite in such a way to give myself an advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drearivev View Post
    I haven't played an STG game in a while but this game caught my eye! I'm new to the MOBA genre. I tried playing LoL but hated it, tried Heroes of Order & Chaos but didn't know anything either. Basically I hate MOBAs. But since this is STG I'll definitely try it! Anyways:

    I've often heard the saying "your team is as good as your tank". Do you think this applies to CoC?

    Do you have to choose the target you want to attack? Or is it auto-aim?

    Finally, are you allowed to post screenshots?
    I've actually never heard that term, it's generally, "your only as good as your carry." Anyway to answer your questions it's too early to say what class if any is the bread and butter to most every team.

    You have to choose your targets to attack.

    Yes we are. I will update this post with some after I finish my forum rounds.

    @Kyle That is a question for STS staff.

    -Vys

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    Quote Originally Posted by KingFu View Post
    I'd put in Vys' posts as well, but I don't want this post to take up too much of the thread.

    Edit:
    I've also gone ahead and requested a sticky for this thread to hopefully get more people to see it.
    Done.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vystirch View Post
    Hey Kingfu! I will answer these questions to the best of my ability.

    What's your favorite class/characters? What does a good team composition seem to be?
    1. Right now my favorite classes are mages and supports. My favorite characters are Violet, Cinder, Modus, (mages) Khalid, and Ulric (supports). I feel every team should be composed of at least one mage, one tank/support, and one assassin/fighter. The team composition problem has been addressed with a solution.

    How do classes synergize?
    2. Classes have everything they need to synergize well. Balancing and defining the strengths and weaknesses of each class and champion will obviously happen as it is very early alpha.

    Do your see the game as being too one-dimensional?
    3. Suggestions have been put forward to give the game more dimensions. There is great potential in the current alpha release to evolve so that it will stigmatize competitive play and fan viewing over twitch/E-Sports to an even higher degree!

    I had a much lengthier explanation worked out for each of your questions, but for now this is what I felt comfortable sharing. I may ask STS if they would allow me to write a blog once or twice a week having them review every entry before publishing it.

    -Vys
    Quote Originally Posted by Vystirch View Post
    Hi again KingFu!
    How does player skill factor into CoC?
    As with all games and with any MOBA, skill factors in to make apparent discrepancies between players. In most every MOBA out there it is possible to make up for a lack of skill by simple sitting aback and farming more than your opponent. Giving you a an item advantage. You then hope that this statistical advantage will help remove any noobishness that may be apparent in your gameplay.
    As you alrdy pointed out CoC has no items/gold which mean there is no farming to gain an advantage. This does mean that the game comes down much more to skillful plays and team communication/composition. While this could be viewed as problematic I do not think it should be viewed this way. The inclusion of a ranked leader board will help match you against players of the same rank. Which will hopefully result in you playing against players your same skill level.
    I know that this is not always the case in LoL and DOTA, where you will find players in bronze who are just as skilled as players in gold. Eventually though a player who is consistently more skillful than opponents should climb any ladder that is developed for CoC.

    There is a focus for us as t1 alpha players to help make this game more competitive. And the lack of currency and itemization does make CoC more competitive.

    Hopefully that helps,
    -Vys

    Is the learning curve bad?
    Edit: Default0519 right above this post mentions that "The lack of creeps... Will reduce the learning curve significantly." I am going to refute him by saying that the mechanics that replace creeps will have a learning curve all to their own. I can see it being more complex than creeps with proper development. So stay tooned untill I can share more.
    Thanks for getting it sticky!

    -Vys
    Last edited by Vystirch; 04-27-2015 at 08:19 PM.

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    Kiting and orb walking/stutter stepping are two completely different things. Kiting is while running away orb walking/stutter stepping can be done while stationary in a fight.

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