Official PvP feedback thread

[Synozeer]

Just played some PvP. It's slowly getting there, but unfortunately, now it takes way too long to kill someone. I fear that by reducing damage across the board, it's minimizing the differences between those who do more damage and those who do less damage.

For example, if all damage is reduced in half, then someone who was doing 100 a shot is doing 50, and someone doing 80 a shot is doing 40. Instead of an extra 20 points of damage per hit over the other person before the reduction in damage, now they're only doing 10 more than the other person, meaning there's not a whole lot of difference and trivializes the extra damage people have built up.

Some other suggestions:

- When someone dies and respawns, give them "ghost" status for 5 seconds where they can't attack or be attacked, to help prevent spawn killings.
- Stun should stun the character so they can't do anything, not just make it so they can't move and still attack back.

Thanks!

[j46g629h]

Just played some PvP. It's slowly getting there, but now unfortunately, now it takes way too long to kill someone. I fear that by reducing damage across the board, it's minimizing the differences between those who do more damage and those who do less damage.

For example, if all damage is reduced in half, then someone who was doing 100 a shot is doing 50, and someone doing 80 a shot is doing 40. Instead of an extra 20 points of damage per hit over the other person before the reduction in damage, now they're only doing 10 more than the other person, meaning there's not a whole lot of difference and trivializes the extra damage people have built up.

Some other suggestions:

- When someone dies and respawns, give them "ghost" status for 5 seconds where they can't attack or be attacked, to help prevent spawn killings.
- Stun should stun the character so they can't do anything, not just make it so they can't move and still attack back.

Thanks!

Can't agree more,

and it makes enchantress more useless.

[FeralDruid]

Just played some PvP. It's slowly getting there, but unfortunately, now it takes way too long to kill someone. I fear that by reducing damage across the board, it's minimizing the differences between those who do more damage and those who do less damage.

For example, if all damage is reduced in half, then someone who was doing 100 a shot is doing 50, and someone doing 80 a shot is doing 40. Instead of an extra 20 points of damage per hit over the other person before the reduction in damage, now they're only doing 10 more than the other person, meaning there's not a whole lot of difference and trivializes the extra damage people have built up.

Some other suggestions:

- When someone dies and respawns, give them "ghost" status for 5 seconds where they can't attack or be attacked, to help prevent spawn killings.
- Stun should stun the character so they can't do anything, not just make it so they can't move and still attack back.

Thanks!

You can't really have it both ways, in that even after reductions, you're still doing 20 more damage. We wanted longer matches, and thats what we got. Instead of dying in 2 shots, you're dying in 20, and in that time you've got a larger window of opportunity to play your class in a way that it works best for the situation rather than dying before that situation ever gets a chance to arise.

[Dizko]

Its very hard for 1 dps to take down a tank. But thats the way it should be.

[Natatat]

I still think the spawns are a little screwy. I'd say you could designate a blue and red spawn point, but then people would camp those out.

[Dizko]

I still think the spawns are a little screwy. I'd say you could designate a blue and red spawn point, but then people would camp those out.

Yea 5 second ghost status idea would sort it.

EDIT: However, do not make the ghost status apply to someone who has been ress'd by an enchanter. We dont need a ressed tank who can do anything lol.

[Synozeer]

You can't really have it both ways, in that even after reductions, you're still doing 20 more damage. We wanted longer matches, and thats what we got. Instead of dying in 2 shots, you're dying in 20, and in that time you've got a larger window of opportunity to play your class in a way that it works best for the situation rather than dying before that situation ever gets a chance to arise.

I'm doing 20 more damage, but that's not what my character with his equipment was designed to do - he was designed to do 40. PvP is putting an artificial reduction on my characters abilities, basically changing the way everything works and interacts with one another. Overall, it's throwing everything out of balance and making PvP boring and generic.

In my opinion, the real way to fix this problem (and several others in the game), is to make gaining hit points level based so that you don't end up with 1st level characters having the same health as a 35th level character. That just doesn't make sense. Sure, this would require a revamp of most things in the game, but there's a reason why almost every level based RPG and MMORPG in existence uses a hit point per level system - it works! And it lets you add a lot more variety to the game without the restraints of staying within the small range of hit points characters can have.

Right now the hit points per level is supplemented with armor. Every level you can do more damage, and armor can absorb more damage. Overall, it stays even, and no matter what class you are, there's very little difference in armors for the different classes. A few points here and there, but that's really not significant. If you had a hit point system, you'd start to get big differences between the class, which is how it should be.

[Synozeer]

Also, I just did small test in the game where I sat there with my Sniper's Bayou Bow and shot at a warrior (he was helping with the test) without him attacking back and couldn't kill him. 3 minutes later and he was still fine. I'm guessing that the armor reduction wasn't reduced as well?

[Edatx]

Can't agree more,

and it makes enchantress more useless.

I disagree. While I'm not sold on the changes (I think something more comprehensive is necessary than just altering damage tables) I think it made my enchanter much stronger. Having 14m/s I almost never died in the matches I played and always had mana to heal and attack.

[Dizko]

Heres a challenge.

Get two warriors to kill eachother.

Nothing happens. Lol..

[Laska]

Lol it wuld nice to actually find a pvp match right now thers lik none.....but the 5v5 arenas are pretty coo lol

[ed anger]

Lol it wuld nice to actually find a pvp match right now thers lik none

pvp is hard to balance. those who lose stop playing after a couple matches, and soon the winners have no one to fight and quit from boredom.

[Edatx]

pvp is hard to balance.

this.

It's also hard to balance when you have a complete other game to worry about (PvE in this case) -- If you change skills / abilities / roles you have to re-tune everything.

[FeralDruid]

I'm doing 20 more damage, but that's not what my character with his equipment was designed to do - he was designed to do 40. PvP is putting an artificial reduction on my characters abilities, basically changing the way everything works and interacts with one another. Overall, it's throwing everything out of balance and making PvP boring and generic.

In my opinion, the real way to fix this problem (and several others in the game), is to make gaining hit points level based so that you don't end up with 1st level characters having the same health as a 35th level character. That just doesn't make sense. Sure, this would require a revamp of most things in the game, but there's a reason why almost every level based RPG and MMORPG in existence uses a hit point per level system - it works! And it lets you add a lot more variety to the game without the restraints of staying within the small range of hit points characters can have.

Right now the hit points per level is supplemented with armor. Every level you can do more damage, and armor can absorb more damage. Overall, it stays even, and no matter what class you are, there's very little difference in armors for the different classes. A few points here and there, but that's really not significant. If you had a hit point system, you'd start to get big differences between the class, which is how it should be.

This isn't "every other mmo" if we get to the bottom of things. This is core gameplay, the very basics packaged into a pick-up-and-play digestible format for a portable medium.

Saying you want to keep your +40 damage which you've acquired through gear means those highly geared have an easier time chalking up victories. No thanks, I don't want to grind out gear just so I can be on par with people who have more time to play than I do. I'd rather take my welfare epics and be on a level playing field with those who spent days tracking down a pink helm and still hand out beat downs based on how I play and not what I'm wearing.

The bottom line is PvP is about using your class to the best of its ability..

Saying the PvP is watered down, or lacks dynamics ignores variables such as spec and weapons of choice.

[Sicarii]

I'm doing 20 more damage, but that's not what my character with his equipment was designed to do - he was designed to do 40. PvP is putting an artificial reduction on my characters abilities, basically changing the way everything works and interacts with one another. Overall, it's throwing everything out of balance and making PvP boring and generic.

Actually, nothing has changed except the timeline. Before, you used to do 40 extra damage in 5 seconds. Now, you do 40 extra damage in 10 seconds. You still have the same difference in damage across classes, you have simply changed the time table.

The only thing this really effects is skill based spike damage, because you have to deal with recasts. There are really only a very few skills that have significant timers, though, and most of those are defensive.

Also, I just did small test in the game where I sat there with my Sniper's Bayou Bow and shot at a warrior (he was helping with the test) without him attacking back and couldn't kill him. 3 minutes later and he was still fine.

I call shenanigans, seeing as how I just went through a pvp round where I specifically targeted the warriors... and I was able to kill them... with Scabby Heavy Crossbow. Took me a while, but then... it's a bloody tank - it SHOULD take me a while. They survive. That's kinda the point...

Not to mention, these are not 1v1 pvp arenas. They are 3v3 and 5v5. At the moment, they are being played like a bunch of crazies running around with hatchets, hacking at the first thing they see. Eventually, you will wind up with groups that work together, that coordinate attacks, that have certain characters assigned certain roles, that focus fire, and that keep each other alive. When a group of 3 or 5 focus fires on that tank friend of yours, I guarantee you he will drop before he knows he is under attack... especially if they coordinate spikes.

Bam! Headshot!

[Diz]

I just played two rounds, one 5v5 one 3v3 - wow. Amazing now. Actually playable compared to last night [even though it was still a blast].

Now my favorite PvP game on my iPhone. Goodbye, Eliminate Pro...

Teamwork = everything. Stick n move. Focus fire. Support teammates. Grab powerups. WOOT!!!!!!!!!!!

[Synozeer]

This isn't "every other mmo" if we get to the bottom of things. This is core gameplay, the very basics packaged into a pick-up-and-play digestible format for a portable medium.

Maybe at first, but with all the new additions - guilds, PvP, trading, etc, it's gaining the features of a more advantages MMO. Of course, with only 3 stats, it can only go so far.

Saying you want to keep your +40 damage which you've acquired through gear means those highly geared have an easier time chalking up victories. No thanks, I don't want to grind out gear just so I can be on par with people who have more time to play than I do. I'd rather take my welfare epics and be on a level playing field with those who spent days tracking down a pink helm and still hand out beat downs based on how I play and not what I'm wearing.

The bottom line is PvP is about using your class to the best of its ability.

So what you're saying is forget about equipment or time spent on developing your character - lets make it easy for everyone. Just because you don't care to grind out gear to do a bit better in PvP doesn't mean no one else does. There's a reason why there's different rarities and stats for equipment - to reward those who put the time in and give a goal to strive for. But either way, you would still be able to do fine with your welfare epics, but those with better items would have a slight edge.

Actually, nothing has changed except the timeline. Before, you used to do 40 extra damage in 5 seconds. Now, you do 40 extra damage in 10 seconds. You still have the same difference in damage across classes, you have simply changed the time table.

The advantages of some classes is the speed they can deal out damage. Time is important. Now you're giving your opponents time to heal, regain mana, recover from stuns, etc, that they wouldn't have been able to do normally. Enchantresses with 16 mana regen will basically get double the mana back, enough to throw extra heals, more damage dealing spells, etc, while a warrior will run out of mana after sitting there for 40 seconds trying to kill you.

I call shenanigans, seeing as how I just went through a pvp round where I specifically targeted the warriors... and I was able to kill them... with Scabby Heavy Crossbow. Took me a while, but then... it's a bloody tank - it SHOULD take me a while. They survive. That's kinda the point...

I don't think so. Ask Doberman - that's who I was testing with. Note that all I was doing was shooting at him and casting Rage - I wasn't using any other of my abilities. But I sat there for minutes and he was fine. If you half damage, you need to half armor.

[Diz]

You don't need to half the armor just because you half the damage. In fact that would be two steps back after we just took one forward, Grim.

Nerfing armor because damage was nerfed [to reduce 1 shot instagib fest aka LAST NIGHT] would then put us right back in the same exact situation.

There are other ways of balancing the numbers, but they seem to be pretty balanced compared to last night. Duels SHOULD last several minutes [which they do right now] if both players are going all-out and focusing. It shouldn't just be a lucky crit within the first cooldown cycle.

PS - However, I did have a fight about an hour ago where Ajeje was on the other team, and we had 4 dudes on him for nearly a minute before he died. He killed one of us. 95% dodge rate, only taking once in a while taking low single-digit damage once in a while from hits. He could 3-4 shot someone too if I wasn't just spamming heal. Seen a couple other archers in similar playstyles, but none on Ajeje's level. Only glaring imbalance I see currently.

[DandyValkAiz]

ah... its funny how my mage got killed all the time by an archer with juz one hit... ^_^ and my tanker gets killed by an archer too with a few hits...

and ooooh, i'll be rly happy if the lag gets a wee bit better.. lol, i juz respawned and after loading i find myself dead again... >_<

[Azrael]

dodge does seem to be higher than on our stat pages, by alot.