[Feedback] Mage Heal Upgrade

[Schnitzel]

Clash should be where a Mage belongs, correct. However, when the class can replace a rogue's role in a clash, then it's severely imbalanced. I understand if you only need one rogue, but not needing any rogue is akin to not needing a warrior in PvE.

I know y'all are focusing this from a PvP standpoint, but here's my opinion as a pure PvE mage.
Especially in elites, us (mages) are "squishy", so the 1100 heal (@ lvl46) is very helpful, especially if you're like me, running with only legendary items, having less than 3k health.

Also, if I remember correctly, during lvl41 up until now, its always been along the lines of "Need Rogue" and "Need more Rogues", Mages and Warriors have been getting (I think they call it) the "Short end of the rope(?)". Now, Mages have gotten a buff in heal (I dunno about anyone else, but that 1k heal is extremely useful in PvE). Its not like we've been given a boost in dmg/dps. We still are a support class, we've just been made a "better support" class.

Another thing, this kind of reminds me of Fibus' signature "'Paper is ok, nerf rock' -Scissors"
Paper = Warriors
Rock = Mage
Scissors = Rogues

---

Obviously, I'm going to get a lot of hate for writing my opinion in this thread, but from when I started really playing AL (last year, started during Tindirin cap), I've always found that rogues have always been the OP ones. On the Planar test server, (with a +9int Arc Ring), a rogue one shots me, and I die in TDM. Next fight, I charge and use shield, rogue runs and one shots me again. Is that really fair? (Obviously I don't PvP, but I couldn't even land a hit with a fireball before i died). Also last I checked, at the same level as me, no arc ring, I saw a rogue with more health, armor, and damage/dps than me

Rogues have (from my playing) always been the ones in the spotlight. Maybe give us a chance to shine?

[Alejandros]

+1 mages buff was needed

[Alejandros]

I know y'all are focusing this from a PvP standpoint, but here's my opinion as a pure PvE mage.
Especially in elites, us (mages) are "squishy", so the 1100 heal (@ lvl46) is very helpful, especially if you're like me, running with only legendary items, having less than 3k health.

Also, if I remember correctly, during lvl41 up until now, its always been along the lines of "Need Rogue" and "Need more Rogues", Mages and Warriors have been getting (I think they call it) the "Short end of the rope(?)". Now, Mages have gotten a buff in heal (I dunno about anyone else, but that 1k heal is extremely useful in PvE). Its not like we've been given a boost in dmg/dps. We still are a support class, we've just been made a "better support" class.

Another thing, this kind of reminds me of Fibus' signature "'Paper is ok, nerf rock' -Scissors"
Paper = Warriors
Rock = Mage
Scissors = Rogues

---

Obviously, I'm going to get a lot of hate for writing my opinion in this thread, but from when I started really playing AL (last year, started during Tindirin cap), I've always found that rogues have always been the OP ones. On the Planar test server, (with a +9int Arc Ring), a rogue one shots me, and I die in TDM. Next fight, I charge and use shield, rogue runs and one shots me again. Is that really fair? (Obviously I don't PvP, but I couldn't even land a hit with a fireball before i died). Also last I checked, at the same level as me, no arc ring, I saw a rogue with more health, armor, and damage/dps than me

Rogues have (from my playing) always been the ones in the spotlight. Maybe give us a chance to shine?

Totally agree with you now mages will be %1 more helpful in pve still rogues rule pve tho....

[KnowledgeFTW]

+1 mages buff was needed

+2 buff was necessary

[Eldorado]

Mage will never be a spotlight. Even with this buff heal will never be useful in pve because it steals aggro and makes one dead mage. In pvp, there are lots of damage to be sacrificed just for the heal skill. Still thanks for sts for buffing mage. Now just waiting for warriors to be buff.

[Diggdugg]

You guys keep forgetting that the game does not revolve around pvp, this is a pve game primary and a pvp secondary so the heal is nice and helps pve (which is the primary aspect of game imo). Sts does something good by fixing a worthless skill and everyone in pvp complains.. Just enjoy the game mages are soo squishy they need the heal

[Schnitzel]

You guys keep forgetting that the game does not revolve around pvp, this is a pve game primary and a pvp secondary so the heal is nice and helps pve (which is the primary aspect of game imo). Sts does something good by fixing a worthless skill and everyone in pvp complains.. Just enjoy the game mages are soo squishy they need the heal

Agreeing to this

[Alhuntrazeck]

I know y'all are focusing this from a PvP standpoint, but here's my opinion as a pure PvE mage.
Especially in elites, us (mages) are "squishy", so the 1100 heal (@ lvl46) is very helpful, especially if you're like me, running with only legendary items, having less than 3k health.

Also, if I remember correctly, during lvl41 up until now, its always been along the lines of "Need Rogue" and "Need more Rogues", Mages and Warriors have been getting (I think they call it) the "Short end of the rope(?)". Now, Mages have gotten a buff in heal (I dunno about anyone else, but that 1k heal is extremely useful in PvE). Its not like we've been given a boost in dmg/dps. We still are a support class, we've just been made a "better support" class.

Another thing, this kind of reminds me of Fibus' signature "'Paper is ok, nerf rock' -Scissors"
Paper = Warriors
Rock = Mage
Scissors = Rogues

---

Obviously, I'm going to get a lot of hate for writing my opinion in this thread, but from when I started really playing AL (last year, started during Tindirin cap), I've always found that rogues have always been the OP ones. On the Planar test server, (with a +9int Arc Ring), a rogue one shots me, and I die in TDM. Next fight, I charge and use shield, rogue runs and one shots me again. Is that really fair? (Obviously I don't PvP, but I couldn't even land a hit with a fireball before i died). Also last I checked, at the same level as me, no arc ring, I saw a rogue with more health, armor, and damage/dps than me

Rogues have (from my playing) always been the ones in the spotlight. Maybe give us a chance to shine?

Short end of the stick

[Zeus]

I know y'all are focusing this from a PvP standpoint, but here's my opinion as a pure PvE mage.
Especially in elites, us (mages) are "squishy", so the 1100 heal (@ lvl46) is very helpful, especially if you're like me, running with only legendary items, having less than 3k health.

Also, if I remember correctly, during lvl41 up until now, its always been along the lines of "Need Rogue" and "Need more Rogues", Mages and Warriors have been getting (I think they call it) the "Short end of the rope(?)". Now, Mages have gotten a buff in heal (I dunno about anyone else, but that 1k heal is extremely useful in PvE). Its not like we've been given a boost in dmg/dps. We still are a support class, we've just been made a "better support" class.

Another thing, this kind of reminds me of Fibus' signature "'Paper is ok, nerf rock' -Scissors"
Paper = Warriors
Rock = Mage
Scissors = Rogues

---

Obviously, I'm going to get a lot of hate for writing my opinion in this thread, but from when I started really playing AL (last year, started during Tindirin cap), I've always found that rogues have always been the OP ones. On the Planar test server, (with a +9int Arc Ring), a rogue one shots me, and I die in TDM. Next fight, I charge and use shield, rogue runs and one shots me again. Is that really fair? (Obviously I don't PvP, but I couldn't even land a hit with a fireball before i died). Also last I checked, at the same level as me, no arc ring, I saw a rogue with more health, armor, and damage/dps than me

Rogues have (from my playing) always been the ones in the spotlight. Maybe give us a chance to shine?

Heal draws aggro. As a sorcerer, using it will just speed up your demise.

You guys keep forgetting that the game does not revolve around pvp, this is a pve game primary and a pvp secondary so the heal is nice and helps pve (which is the primary aspect of game imo). Sts does something good by fixing a worthless skill and everyone in pvp complains.. Just enjoy the game mages are soo squishy they need the heal

As mentioned above, heal draws aggro. Using it will speed up your demise, making it counterproductive in PvE. It's pure a pvp skill.


More specifically, it's the heal over time function that generates so much aggro. You're welcome to try it out!

[Schnitzel]

Short end of the stick

Oops, sorry about that

[Zeus]

Maybe you forgot it takes 1 skill slot for this heal totally reducing max combo damage. And how come it will be an issue to stack multiple mages if heal doesnt stack invulnerability like warriors do? Mage can still be one shot by one rogue, make it two then for sure it will be dead already without even using a skill.

Sorcerers get a shield, they are nearly shielded all the time by either Nekro or Arcane Shield. Everybody keeps mentioning one shot but nobody mentions how often a Mage is not shielded (very rarely).

The heal can stack and keep them alive in between the very little time that a sorcerer does not have a shield.

@Colax
Yes, I do, however they had many other qualities to make up for this.

[Wazakesy]

Sorcerers get a shield, they are nearly shielded all the time by either Nekro or Arcane Shield. Everybody keeps mentioning one shot but nobody mentions how often a Mage is not shielded (very rarely).

The heal can stack and keep them alive in between the very little time that a sorcerer does not have a shield.

@Colax
Yes, I do, however they had many other qualities to make up for this.

Not to even forget with 2mage stacks, the heal can be like 1st heal and 2nd heal orders when the warrior's heal is over, GG for rogues. Seems we need to get the dmg back or make a mage Parth, i see a dead end for rogues in PvP

[Alejandros]

Not to even forget with 2mage stacks, the heal can be like 1st heal and 2nd heal orders when the warrior's heal is over, GG for rogues. Seems we need to get the dmg back or make a mage Parth, i see a dead end for rogues in PvP

Well maybe rogues can focus on twinks brackets now since on twink brackets theres 1mage every 15rogues....
Ps: Also keep in mind that on twink brackets this heal only keep mages alive when their shield is up bcuz when their shield is down they are a 1combo mage.....

[Schnitzel]

Sorcerers get a shield, they are nearly shielded all the time by either Nekro or Arcane Shield. Everybody keeps mentioning one shot but nobody mentions how often a Mage is not shielded (very rarely).

The heal can stack and keep them alive in between the very little time that a sorcerer does not have a shield.

@Colax
Yes, I do, however they had many other qualities to make up for this.

eh...some of us mages don't/can't afford Nekros. Currently, I'm just running with a mage shield (and the occasional Fantasma shield)

[Wazakesy]

Well maybe rogues can focus on twinks brackets now since on twink brackets theres 1mage every 15rogues....
Ps: Also keep in mind that on twink brackets this heal only keep mages alive when their shield is up bcuz when their shield is down they are a 1combo mage.....

The topic here isnt about twinks, i was talkin about endgame - just so you know, place your twinking problems in another thread? No need to de-rail/complicate an end-game thread into a twink thread.

[Zeus]

Well maybe rogues can focus on twinks brackets now since on twink brackets theres 1mage every 15rogues....
Ps: Also keep in mind that on twink brackets this heal only keep mages alive when their shield is up bcuz when their shield is down they are a 1combo mage.....

So your solution is no solution? Perhaps you would rather enjoy playing a dead game. Keep in mind that rogue is the most popular class - imagine what's going to happen when they're not longer viable in PvP clashes (something rogues are already facing an issue with).

Honestly, a large majority of the commenters in this thread are also people who lack concept of game mechanics and thus negatively influence the game when they really have NO idea what they are talking about. These players know who they are.

[Alejandros]

The topic here isnt about twinks, i was talkin about endgame - just so you know, place your twinking problems in another thread? No need to de-rail/complicate an end-game thread into a twink thread.

Well mate seems that you dnt happem to know that any changes whatsoever happens on endgame affect every single lv aka all PvP maps so pls take your cry rogué problems to another game

[Zeus]

eh...some of us mages don't/can't afford Nekros. Currently, I'm just running with a mage shield (and the occasional Fantasma shield)

Most of the players in PvP in today's PvP do have a Nekro. Isn't it better to keep suggestions limited to concepts you understand? Keep in mind that suggestions go directly to developer ears, so any misguided suggestions can negatively impact the game and often times are things that are never repaired.

[Energizeric]

Parth:

I didn't have time to read this whole debate, but here are my thoughts:

1) At end game you are somewhat correct. The heal is a bit OP now. But before the regrowth upgrade was so useless that nobody used it. Now I agree it is a little bit OP. So perhaps the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle. Remember that to use this upgrade it means switching a skill point from something else.

IMO every skill upgrade should be equally useful. So when there is a skill upgrade that nobody ever uses, then STS needs to either change or buff that skill point so that some people start to use it. But if everyone is using it, then perhaps it is buffed too much.

2) At twink levels, sorcerers have always been somewhat useless except as a support class to cast the occasional curse in PvP. Just go into twink pvp fights and you rarely even see a sorcerer because nobody wants to play them. When I first started out at level 10, I was told not even to bother and that I should choose another class. Well I spent many millions and ended up putting together an 8 para PvP set with Nekro, and I have by far the highest damage of any player at level 10 (over 150 damage with Nightshade). Even still, there are level 10 warriors who can just stand there and heal in a 1-on-1 battle and not even fight back and I can't kill them. And there are rogues that can take me down in 1-on-1 battles very easy.

So this sort of change was necessary for twink levels. I still don't know that it fixes everything, but it certainly helps and in time I will make that determination.

So perhaps they need to scale this skill upgrade a bit differently. Maybe leave it as is for lower levels, but do not scale it to higher levels as steep as the current scaling is. I think maybe that is the best solution.


On a side note, I always have thought that sorcerers/mages should have the best heal skill. That is how it is in every other MMO I am aware of.

A true judge of how OP (or not) a certain class is in PvP is KDRs. Take a look at some of the best PvP sorcerers and tell me what their KDRs are, then look at the same for rogues and warriors, and then tell me who is OP. Or better yet, look at the leaderboards for PvP and tell me who dominates those leaderboards.

[shinyx]

Honestly, a large majority of the commenters in this thread are also people who lack concept of game mechanics and thus negatively influence the game when they really have NO idea what they are talking about. These players know who they are.

Wow!

I think everyone is entitled to their opinion