Juggernaut Change Discussion

[Metoxx]

This idea seems more simpler to do but that maybe too op, maybe half that would work better for example 2500 armor gives 1250 hp ...etc I really like your idea

Comparing to pvp rogue aim shoot still can break through those tons of hp and armor even this way... tbh sts shud find other way to buff warriors because even if jug will have fixed but still 70% of ppl wont replace vb for jugg

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[Skvll]

Imo jugg should be a like how metoxx explained but a little less powerful . And in addition to that.
Possibly combining veng and jugg together as one skill so we can absorb dmg, deal dmg, hold aggro and recover mana in one skill based off our str and armor
I feel it'll give warriors more variety of skill choices for pvp and pve in regards to attack skills. Possibly adding a new skill to choose from for veng being combined for example a skill like.
Deflection
-25s cooldown deflecting 45% of the enemies attacks for 7s
-a chance to stun attacker(s) off of deflected attacks,
- every hit deflected will taunt the enemies/ knock back
- increase duration to 10s

[hallowring]

skvll has a good conclusion and thought i like it +1 skvll

[rustygun]

I do like the idea of removing all debuff when on Juggernaut imunne to armor reduce etc no breaking in 3-4 sec or less when we have to nekro heal and jug same time to last 4-5 sec it sucks... Also add some deflecting attack hitting a brick wall your fist it should hurt.. that's what a Juggernaut is a moving brick wall with iron and reinforced steel.. You heal first mages knock out your heal no bubble jug first it break heal+jug still weak if no nekro you die just the same so no room for other pets like singe I pay 14mil for that pet I would like to use it too a pve geared rogue or mage could jump into PvP no pvp experience and start farming me. My friend got new mystic set for tank call me to help him gang a rogue without set because he/we tanks are out match by mages and rogues... And this tank in question could hold his own LVL 36...41.. Lvl 41 was hard win like 3 out of 10 but now 46 feel like its open season on tanks and running to survive is only option ); even if max geared run or die or be the scum of AL "tanks gangsters have to gang to survive they weak paper!" Well I tell my friend this person new never seen him before only gang who gang me or if they rude, online bully or trash others best leave map stand as one circle dont move and if he attk he take on both of us not wise to atk a group of people give them all reason to gang you well the rogue was smart that makes me happy....... I know to a lot off pve players PvP is a nut house but its a place of quick reflex, strategy, good judgement and team work at time.. Quick assessment of situation is also vital to your survival.. I always enjoy a good fight When skills determine winning.. On tank I'm taking a knife to a gun fight..

[Cheif]

Just a -1 from me.

[Energizeric]

Just a couple of comments I'd like to make:

1) If you are going to base the values of Juggernaut on armor values and you are concerned at all about twink PvP, please fix the Squeakems 'n Squish pet. Currently the description says +100 armor, but the pet itself is giving +250 armor. I don't have this pet on any of my toons, but this is what I have been told. This extra armor value is making warriors almost impossible to kill at lower levels, and if Juggernaut will now be based on armor value as well, this needs to be fixed. I don't have a problem with the bonus being +250 armor at end game, but at lower levels it needs to be less. I think a better solution would be for this pet to give a percentage armor bonus, like perhaps +20% armor. That way it will scale to level better.

2) I never have understood why buffs and debuffs override each other instead of being cumulative. If a buff gives +20% armor and a debuff gives -30% armor, then the end result should be -10% armor. This would make more sense. As the game has progressed over the past 3 years, between elixirs, special gems, pets and passive skills, we have more and more bonuses that are being combined together, and it has been a mess trying to figure out how to make the pieces fit together without one overriding the other and one or more bonuses being wasted. Please just make them add (or subtract) together. Yes, if this is done we may create some imbalance, but then we can make adjustments later on to fix it. At least it will make some sense and will no longer be a big mystery to most players.

[davidvilla]

Scaling per group of level is what sts has to do at the moment. If juggernaut stays as it is then ofc warriors will stay as dominant class at low level with their solid 500 hp heal. Keep in mind that vengeance heals 450 as well. Beside that there's heal horn for further heal. Basically, warriors can just sit at a cornor healing itself doing nothing at low levels below 10. It is quite pathetic.

However, if we implement this strategy then it might solve those issues:
Level 1-5 Armor 2.5% heal 200
Level 6- 10 Armor 5% heal 250 hp
Level 11-15 Armor 7.5% heal 300hp
Level 16-20 Armor 10% heal 350 hp
Level 21-25 Armor 12.5% heal 400 hp
Level 26-30 Armor 15% heal 450 hp
Level 31-35 Armor 17.5% heal 500 hp
And so on

[Arachnophobik]

As jugg is being discussed here I believe that a pve boost on warriors should be put pn another thread. Not here. More taunts on juggernaut will only fix a very small thing which is the warriors being able to actually hold aggro. But the truth is, even if they could hold aggro, most people will still prefer rogue/mage party because its faster that way. We still wont see tanks on the elite pve lb. And while it may be true that not all people would run for lb anyways, everyone likes their runs fast. Just look at the last few threads here about people looking for an arena pt. Its always rogues that they're looking for. And when you go to arena on pug you will usually end up with two or more tanks, and people saying "too many tanks" and ask you to go out. Why cant there be "too many mages" or "too many rogues"? The ideal fix would be as i believe qwas suggested before by Zeus, was a class party bonus where the party has extra buffs when a tank is on the team. Just my 2¢.

[Killian229]

Add level requirements for certain Skills Warriors need greater damg or a weapon damage buff.absolutely not cool how much tanks are not needed if certain builds are running a elixer.alienate people that way.imo,take away health boosts from jug and add damage reduction or slight weapon damage skill(.nothing major but enough to make all ends happy.you guys can do it..been loving your work since Mar2011.gl guys.

[rustygun]

Add level requirements for certain Skills Warriors need greater damg or a weapon damage buff.absolutely not cool how much tanks are not needed if certain builds are running a elixer.alienate people that way.imo,take away health boosts from jug and add damage reduction or slight weapon damage skill(.nothing major but enough to make all ends happy.you guys can do it..been loving your work since Mar2011.gl guys.

I'd prefer have the HP boost frankly I'm not comfortable with DMG reduce It would a better suggestion instead of dmg reduce add dodge... But still tanks were build to take hits and if tanks dodge then mage gona get hit they would have lowest at this point so this too is a bad idea.. Obsorb DMG and send it back to attacker is another idea

[Andrés Fernández]

It looks nice, no more inmortals in pvp, but it will get useless for pve, right?

[Skvll]

So is sts making jugg more breakable? That's what it seems like so far even though it's supposed to be more
Balanced. But how often do sts really see super low lvls using jugg? As of right now jugg can still break jugg works on a 50% chance to self heal and on a 45 second cd
I'm not complaining about the current jugg skill but if sts is gonna change somethings about jugg (nerf) even though it's not perfect and it still has its flaws that we've accepted . Reduce the cool down atleast. And remove rallying cry and give us something equally useful to warriors . I'm going off topic just to say one more thing. .. Sts get rid of the skills that isn't commonly used and create skills that'll make players feel limitless with skill choices in pvp and pve for all classes. Pvp seems limited to certain skills like, this and that is a must have type of skill to do good in pvp let us help you guys make votes on new skill designs ...idk why bother giving us free respec weekends when we will most likely resort back to our old builds zzzzz. I don't care what the community says about my opinions I'm only concerned with sts devs seeing this.

[mesalin]

#SaveJuggernaut
#SaveTanks
Why nerf jugg instead of buff it? Huh.
So many awersome suggestions here about jugg. Hope sts will use some of them

<Forgiveness>

[JandelMan]

To hold agro in PvE and actually be useful to a pt and get invites to elites this build allows total mob/agro control. Switch from Skysmash to Axe throw on bosses

[Oursizes]

To hold agro in PvE and actually be useful to a pt and get invites to elites this build allows total mob/agro control. Switch from Skysmash to Axe throw on bosses

And then you go in with the new glintstone weapon and die because you remember you need to use jugg in order to spam health pots and keep losing gold but... yea either way lol

[Froxanthar]

Suggestion,

On Juggernaut last skill upgrade,

Taunting nearby foes every 1.5 sec for 15 seconds. When the taunt is over, it explodes ( like glintstone aegis ) taunting nearby enemies and heal the user to full HP.

[JandelMan]

Yeah this pve build I've used for ages now. It does chew up the pots abit. I used to love jugg for keeping me alive but once your amour and health are high enough it becomes fairly easy to stay alive and tank without it. However I'm running 9k health and close to 3k amour. For lower geared tanks to stay alive jugg is must have.

To hold agro and tank effectively, jugg definitely needs something extra that taunts over time. Some good suggestions above.

I say, give all skills in the games a extra skill point slot so 6/6 in jugg 6/6 vb 6/6 etc etc. Give everyone more options and create greater diversity in builds at 46 everyone has enough points to throw around.

[Oezheasate]

Hello everyone!

I have put together an idea on how to modify the Juggernaut ability for the future of AL based on the communities desire to see changes. Given the nature of this change, we feel it wise to discuss it openly beforehand and see if the community likes the idea as much as we do.

Please leave constructive feedback in the thread below!

The Concerns

From my perspective and understanding, the Juggernaut ability has two main concerns. One is the early game PvP implications associated with a direct 300 HP or 500 HP boost, as this is no joke at early levels. The other concern is that higher end players see not as much benefit as maximum health climbs to the 3, 4 and 5 thousand mark. As more levels become available and more health as a result we will begin to see the bonus of this skill dwindle until it is deemed worthless from diminishing returns which we don't want to see.

The Adjustment

The planned adjustment is to grant the warrior a maximum HP boost that scales based on your armor value. This is more interesting than a flat % of max health, or % based on level scalar in that it now has a synergy potential with armor stated items, jewels, and pets. As a % of armor obviously it will be subject to increases based on external buffs and the like provided by other player skills and pet activated abilities where appropriate. Here are a few examples of how the health bonus would scale based on your level and approximate armor values.

• Tap - 10% Armor as health
• Charge - 16.5% Armor as health

Note that this is representative without jewels of any kind, without pets, and using the 5/5 Armor bonus passive and legendary gear. This 5% armor boost seems like a few points well spent and obviously complimentary given this change. A sword and shield used for the weapon slot to maximize armor from gear on hand. All gear used was purchased through the Store packs as a baseline. Again, all armor values here are more or less approximate based on testing and not a mean, average, or other related data point.

Attachment 143232

The final level 46 entry here denotes more "end game" gear. Mythic and arcane gear compared to store bought legendary gear at 46.

Expectations

What we anticipate this change to do, is provide players with new combinations of pets/gear/jewels in order to find their comfort zone related to this skill as it applies to their play style and net health benefit. We also expect it to have an effect on low level PvP more than high level PvP, and our focus is on the whole system and not specific brackets of play. The potential range given these values as you can see still puts players in the 300 HP and 500 HP bonus like current Juggernaut does once you approach max level, with some wiggle room based on personal gear and related choices. As higher levels become available the amount of HP potential will continue to grow appropriately.

So, thoughts?

frigging finally thanks for acknowledging the issue and attempting to fix it

[xEnterprise]

Taunting in this game is utter garbage lol. I mean ive never seen a warrior maintain aggro in Arena. Sure you can taunt but a second later the boss goes off chasing other dpsers. The bosses always goes back and forth between the warrior and other dpsers.

The only skill capable of maintaining aggro is Chest Spliter but the warriors might end up dead because of the melee red zones.

They need to make the taunted mobs permenantly target the warrior for a set duration. Maybe Jugg can do that?

[Newcomx]

To hold agro in PvE and actually be useful to a pt and get invites to elites this build allows total mob/agro control. Switch from Skysmash to Axe throw on bosses

IMO... VB is the best warrior skill.