[Feedback] Rogue Armor

[Midievalmodel]

For PvP, anything hits you like a truck. STG should've really thought about how this works in PvP, especially since a majority of the buffs for other classes were made with PvP in mind.

I really hope STG does something to at least make this a PvE only sort of thing.

I agree. I mainly play a warrior but have a rogue as an alt. There has been several other instances in the past when stg makes changes with PVE in mind but it dramatically made PVP unbalanced. STG really has to start buffing and nerfing specifically for PVP or for PVE to mantain balanced gameplay.

[kinzmet]

For PvP, anything hits you like a truck. STG should've really thought about how this works in PvP, especially since a majority of the buffs for other classes were made with PvP in mind.

I really hope STG does something to at least make this a PvE only sort of thing.

Well, being hit by truck in PvP is an understatement specially to under-jeweled set like me.

[Tapash Bose]

Yep everything work fine for rogue but mage?? Low hp low armor -_- warrior no need to get buff or nerf anymore mage still need some buff in their stat, i play all character so i know which one need to get buff and nerf

Criteria already nerfed. Think next in line is damage. STS should limit rogue damage to 500.So what even it serves no purpose in the game ? The bright side is it will make warriors happy..loool. All the supporters of rogue nerf here never noticed that now a days almost 70% of warriors move with 10k hp,3k+ armor..and 800 plus damage..and stll all we hear is complain complain and complain..nerf rogues..dont increase armor of mages...yes mages need more armor to bring more balance..and buffing mage armor was the best way to go...but what doing...warriors will feel unhappy..Just one suggestion..change the name of the game to Warrior legends..useless to even have the option of other classes...Why confuse a newbie when u are showering everything on one class only?

[Tapash Bose]

And all the experts here...so called op Warriors have ever noticed how difficult it was for a rogue to get in Elite Rengol without a nekro...even without armor nerf...?

[Avaree]

And all the experts here...so called op Warriors have ever noticed how difficult it was for a rogue to get in Elite Rengol without a nekro...even without armor nerf...?

In many parties I partake in, If there is not a mage or a mage not using ice, we have and will use one breeze. (Such an under credited pet.) Its not all about nekro. Its about team work, party mechanics, and skill knowledge
*btw 99% of my elite parties always includes a tank*

[Tapash Bose]

In many parties I partake in, If there is not a mage or a mage not using ice, we have and will use one breeze. (Such an under credited pet.) Its not all about nekro. Its about team work, party mechanics, and skill knowledge
*btw 99% of my parties, include a tank*

To each his choice..its not about pushing anything down anybody's throat..I have nothing against running with a tank..and I do so frequently..but it should not be something crafted in stone.Why is everybody sooooooooo very concerned with high rogue armor but every single one of them conveniently forgets the abnormally high damage of warriors.(with arcane sword it is easily 800 plus)..I think mathematics is a much better way to explain things rather than rhetoric...I will surely love to understand my lack of knowledge in skill and how i can make them up for the lost armor with that...
As by figures,An avg rogue has around 5k hp..while an warrior has 10k plus(armor wise almost 1.6 -1.7 times)..so where does the sick argument of rogue being a tank pop up ?

[Sirspamsaloty]

Use diamond jewel

[Redjellydonut]

Dont begg for armor that wasnt suppose to be there in the first place... U want armor? Then the new pet is for you! they say they are getting hit by trucks while they hit like trains...

[Michael Woolley]

To each his choice..its not about pushing anything down anybody's throat..I have nothing against running with a tank..and I do so frequently..but it should not be something crafted in stone.Why is everybody sooooooooo very concerned with high rogue armor but every single one of them conveniently forgets the abnormally high damage of warriors.(with arcane sword it is easily 800 plus)..I think mathematics is a much better way to explain things rather than rhetoric...I will surely love to understand my lack of knowledge in skill and how i can make them up for the lost armor with that...
As by figures,An avg rogue has around 5k hp..while an warrior has 10k plus(armor wise almost 1.6 -1.7 times)..so where does the sick argument of rogue being a tank pop up ?

The reason for the high armour and health on a warrior is because we have to withstand heavy damage from many mobs all at once under taunt skills like jugg. And I guarantee u we get hit by more then 1.6-1.7 times more then a rogue. Dam I stand in a group of 8-10 rengol mobs and hold them back while the rogue kills the healer single. Before the nerf rogues would stand in this group and tank as a warrior does. This is all for the better in pve it has also made some pets more useful again. Example is whim. Rogues can use shadow veil instead of traps and Mage or rogue can use whim. With all the pets available in this day there as many opertunities within pts.

[Zeus]

The reason for the high armour and health on a warrior is because we have to withstand heavy damage from many mobs all at once under taunt skills like jugg. And I guarantee u we get hit by more then 1.6-1.7 times more then a rogue. Dam I stand in a group of 8-10 rengol mobs and hold them back while the rogue kills the healer single. Before the nerf rogues would stand in this group and tank as a warrior does. This is all for the better in pve it has also made some pets more useful again. Example is whim. Rogues can use shadow veil instead of traps and Mage or rogue can use whim. With all the pets available in this day there as many opertunities within pts.

If it's your job to tank, lets take away the arcane sword's damage, right? Warriors shouldn't be doing a rogue's job. :P

[Titanfall]

We finally might see more variety in team setups. I agree with the rogue armor nerf. Every time I run with pugs in PVE, its a bunch of warriors that are most likely having trouble finding teams.

This

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[Michael Woolley]

If it's your job to tank, lets take away the arcane sword's damage, right? Warriors shouldn't be doing a rogue's job. :P

I'm talking pve not pvp anyone with knowledge of tanks knows the sword is no good in pve except for bosses and tbh if a rogue now needs a tank at boss I see more need for weapons like aagis. This thread is about pve so I think we should keep it that way.

[Morholt]

Rogues can't use shadow veil, lol. The way the buff/debuff system works is that any armor percentage debuff renders any armor percentage buff useless.

Wait, wasn't it the stronger of the two takes effect? Like, if a buff is 7% and a debuff is 3%, only the 7% buff works.

If it is indeed that a 1% debuff can override even a charged gale's 50% defense buff, I guess we just may get to relive Frostir's days of glory. But, rogues shouldn't have the defense penalty in PvP...or at least not as severe as it stands. Maybe this will work out better once we have the new level 56 endgame gear (the powerful arcane proc won't seem as powerful, plus many may be using a different weapon). Maybe the 36 mythic daggers' proc will be making a return at 56. o.O
If it is indeed any debuff overrides any buff, then the buff/debuff system is what we all should have been rallying to have fixed with the new client.

[eugene9707]

Wait, wasn't it the stronger of the two takes effect? Like, if a buff is 7% and a debuff is 3%, only the 7% buff works.

If it is indeed that a 1% debuff can override even a charged gale's 50% defense buff, I guess we just may get to relive Frostir's days of glory. But, rogues shouldn't have the defense penalty in PvP...or at least not as severe as it stands. Maybe this will work out better once we have the new level 56 endgame gear (the powerful arcane proc won't seem as powerful, plus many may be using a different weapon). Maybe the 36 mythic daggers' proc will be making a return at 56. o.O
If it is indeed any debuff overrides any buff, then the buff/debuff system is what we all should have been rallying to have fixed with the new client.

ya, Cara (or a dev) posted the calculation for buff and debuffs a while ago ..... If a debuff exists, then buffs are ignored, else, the higher buff will be applied...

I'll see if i can find the post again

Edit: found it.. turns out it's Null and not Cara, but here you go:

You are both correct. The way that the current multiplier system works depends on the statistic being multiplied. In the case of damage specifically, we apply the following rules:

- Is there one or more debuff? If so, use the lowest damage multiplier (for example, if you have a 0.5 damage multiplier debuff and a 0.25 damage multiplier debuff, this would result in a multiplier of 0.25).
- Otherwise, is there one or more buff? If so, use the highest damage multiplier (for example, if you have a 1.05 damage multiplier buff and a 1.25 damage multiplier buff, this would result in a multiplier of 1.25).

Because of this, yes. If you have a passive skill with a 1.05 multiplier (5/5 skill), and you also have a pet out that gives you a 1.15 multiplier, your total damage multiplier will be 1.15.

There are a few things that override this - bonus damage, double damage weekends and such interact with the statistic system differently from the normal multipliers, so they don't use this logic.

[Michael Woolley]

The arcane sword proc is precisely why timed run teams with a tank are now knocking records off 4-rogue teams, especially in the harder elites where quickly killing large mob pulls speeds up the run immensely. And once someone invited me (a rogue) to a party with 3 other tanks (all using the arcane sword) and I later ran with 3 mages using the arcane staff in the same map (elite wilds). The 3-tank party was faster by 1 minute. So you tell me...

I believe it was the aagis together with the arcane sword at boss which contributed to the timed records. I can tell u as a warrior it is much quicker to haul through a group of mobs with the aagis then it is the arcane sword. Trust me I own both weapons. Btw saf didn't u quit some time ago? Don't think u should be commenting if your out of practice with the current game.

[Michael Woolley]

If you read what I said in my post you would see that I have been playing the game, and I was part of a team which did manage to set a timed run record, with a tank that used the arcane sword all the way to the boss and did not switch to Aegis at any time (the time was later beaten but not by much). I don't comment on these things unless I have my own experience to back it up.

Well now with the rogue armour nerf it would be very difficult for a tank to use arcane sword to keep his team safe from deaths unless it has a magical taunt added with an armour buff. Btw how many rogues in the team with the tank that set that record?

[Michael Woolley]

There were 3 rogues. If you want me to spit it out I will. My point was to emphasize that tanks now do make a positive difference in timed run times and in regular runs in general, because of that weapon. If you want to nitpick and say rogues are still setting the pace for records and you want multiple tanks per team to muscle in on the records then I will have to take this conversation with you private, because we are beginning to derail this thread.

U are right the sword did make a difference but not anymore. Try running elite rengol and pulling large with 3 rogues and a warrior armed with a sword. Let me know how many times both rogue and warrior dies. Aagis is the best pve weopon for tanks of now. It taunts and has a significant armout increase and togethet with jugg and heal it can keep rogues and mages safe from death. Tbh i even had to swap vengeful blood a significant increase of damage for jugg to best keep my team safe. Sword is however still the best weopon for bosses due to the fact that sts hasnt really given us bosses made hard as they use to be. If the play therd cards right in the next expansion and increase the difficulty of bosses arcane sword would be useless due to its low armour and inabililty to taunt.

[nelson131]

As someone who regularly plays all 3 classes in pvp i think we were getting close to balanced. The only part of pvp that rogues were op at is 1v1. I feel like in 1v1 it took less skill to kill as a rogue then with the other classes but in clash this wasn't really the case. IMO the crit nerf was fine, but a armor nerf was a bit too much when in end game pvp all it takes is a second to die. If sts wants to make rogues die easy fine, but like others have suggested they should take away the nerf on damage. As for ren'gol elites i really don't know since i never run them because fangs are the only thing there.

Rogues were supposed to dominate in 1v1s, as that is their only use in pvp. Rogues are already almost useless in clashes anyway. Tanks are supposed to tank, mages are supposed to be dominant in clashes, rogues are supposed to be dominant in 1v1s. And now, tanks and mages who already excel at their own roles want to take away what makes rogues useful- their 1v1 ability, and have mages be tanks, aoe nuke and 1v1 nuke in 1 package. This is not balance

[will0]

Rogues were supposed to dominate in 1v1s, as that is their only use in pvp. Rogues are already almost useless in clashes anyway. Tanks are supposed to tank, mages are supposed to be dominant in clashes, rogues are supposed to be dominant in 1v1s. And now, tanks and mages who already excel at their own roles want to take away what makes rogues useful- their 1v1 ability, and have mages be tanks, aoe nuke and 1v1 nuke in 1 package. This is not balance

Correction mage are never dominant in any pvp ... we are just mana tank . AOE FB dosnt nuke nor Gale... do you play mage??? Dont even get us talk about Arc Staff charge skill its DOT damage is not even 1/8 of arc sword lava spout..

This is so funny how this thread content went all over place with all sort of wrong directions how the skills work on the different toons or you cant win mage due to inabilities... take it both way we looses 1:1 to rogues too it all depends on skills

[Zynzyn]

Correction mage are never dominant in any pvp ... we are just mana tank .

Not to sound rude but this is a blanket-comment generalizing a whole class. Mages, after the buffs to their class recently, are quite powerful in clashes as well as 1v1 now. However that is not the topic we are discussing here. In the past, many rogues, including me, did support threads that paved the way for mage buffs. We have no complaints about that. The issue is armor nerf on rogues and how it is totally unnecessary in pvp after the buffs to warriors and mages.

Hopefully sts is reading our feedback and if the reason for the nerf is PVE runs to include all classes in a party, the nerf could maybe be turned into a PVE thing only.