I think the best solution would be to buff those Dex items that are just too weak to use in pvp but would be great on birds if they were buffed (i.e. Shivering Autobow, Bayou Bow). Like Burningdex said, if birds had an xbow with good speed and damage, they could better combat other classes like mages since they wouldn't have to step inside closer range like 8-10m as often and could rely on kiting in an efficient manner.
Precisely!Originally Posted by Dolloway
11
I pretty much main bird in 35 now. I'm 50 STR Rest dex. From my knowledge and experience so far it's not just the dmg on dex weapons but mostly low skill stats and outdated debuffs.
-30 Hit is irrelevant now. I've personally debuffed a mage with Max blind(-30 Hit) and 2 stacked Forg Bow proc(15 stacked twice so 30) that's-60 hit that you would think makes a difference but it doesn't. Bird needs more than a buff in DMG.
experimenting with bird builds, again. 6blind is a necessity, the max hit% is 84, 6 blind brings them down to 54, meaning roughly a 1 in 2 to miss drain, light and fire. It's not irrelevant, it just isn't as good as it was 3 years ago. It is still a necessity, which subtracts from damaging skills, unfortunately.
It should be increased to at least 60. So far everything is good about bird outside of weak Damage on skills and gear. StS buffs that and add more Dodge to evasion and GG.
0 Post from Cinco, 0 replies from cinco, all the PMs are being ignored, yet the 105 pvp thread gets a decent amount of replies. Seems like lower level pvp community is just being ignored at this point lol
Cinco's focus has been almost entirely on endgame because that's where most of his revenue comes from. He hasn't been shy in stating that.
If he could come up with a plan to both make money and 'balance' lower level pvp at the same time by making something like a level 1 stat weapon along with a helm and armor to make a set that ranks up over time (or making scaled stat weapon sets at levels 1, 10, 20, 30, 40), then perhaps he would implement it. I actually wouldn't be surprised to see something like this implemented by the end of the year.
With that said, stat weapons/sets have never been 'balanced'/'skillful' to use, so I doubt this would make lower level pvp any better. However, this is the most likely course of action Cinco would take to change lower level pvp if it does indeed receive any updates.
I understand the revenue part and how he's trying to "balance" 105 more, but I don't see why that process of balancing endgame should negatively impact the lower level pvp. I have read other past comments, but it all seems to narrow down to "Leave lower level pvp and come to upper level pvp". I also heard that there is apparently going to be a bear buff? Even though it is still unsure whether he's going to buff the STR sets or just the bear class overall, but if he's rooting towards buffing the bear class overall, that will be an overkill for other classes. Also, if Cinco is actually trying to make changes in PVP, he should at least try it out himself and see if a specific class needs a nerf or a buff with several other admins, but it only seems like the major changes occur based off of players' requests. Players' requests are class biased and what I mean by that is that if a specific player is a long-term bear player, then it will mostly be the case that they would request for buffs towards the bear class and same goes for other classes.
Not to degrade the Pocket legends admins, but when it comes to other games and buffing / nerfing something in-game, the admins would usually test it out themselves or gather statistics to see if it is valid to make the changes in game. Here, I don't see that going on and as stated above, if the buffing / nerfing becomes player biased, the already unstable imbalance will deteriorate while the admins apparently hope for "balancing" the game. I hope you are understanding what i mean by this. If the admins actually tested it out themselves and cultivated data charts, then it will be reasonable for them to decide the buffing / nerfing process.
So, what makes Pocket Legends so superior to other games that they don't officially test out all the classes / different level zones and change things based off of players' requests? Is it the unique feature of PL to simply alter things in game without further tests themselves?
Strict user testing would be a dream but unfortunately, there's got to be sufficient staff to actually do that and it seems like Cinco's running a one man show here. For good reason, the Legend games just don't bring in enough revenue to justify additional hiring and additional testing. It would be interesting to see a community based user-testing system if Cinco would be willing to consider that, where all feedback comes from the users in a test client. I would love to help in that regard. Why not just reset damage and stats back to previous levels where it was slightly more balanced and less nuke/dodge/crit based? Like have a cut-off at level 35 where under level 35, skills and PvP are at pre-2016 levels, and where over 35 (since there's a lot less twinking going on up there, and there's also the existence of the PURE STAT weapons which are pretty unbalanceable.) the numbers remain the same as they are now.
Try joining the discord chat and pm/talk to cinco. He's on from time to time and asks people for input on certain matters. He has stated that endgame is the focus, but maybe you guys can nudge him to focus a little bit more on the low lvl pvp side. Cinco is amazing nonetheless. He's been 1 manning updates and has been interacting with us pretty frequently. Gotta give credit where credit is do
Birds, if used right, can out-play any class. Rhinos rely more on their nuke damage rather than countering other classes' combos. Rhino's are definitely at the bottom of the food chain. But again back to what i said, it all depends on how experienced you are with the class. In my opinion, to become an elite PvP player is to know what exactly your skills do to your opponent and figuring out what the best combo to use. You have to be able to utilize your skills and combos to put yourself in an advantage.
I highly recommend playing bird at L.30-40, It takes a good bird to counter one. The crows are on the rise!
Birds most definitely cannot outplay mages without dodging at least drain,light or fire; which doesn't happen every time. Sure, i agree, they can outplay other classes; but there's no way a bird would consistently beat an equally skilled mage, it's just how it is at the moment.
I really hope you aren’t serious
It would be nice for Cinco or someone else to reply to a two week old thread about a prevalent issue in game
#35
Twinking? I don't know if I'd call that a legit "issue."
Twinking Is another major aspect of the game rather you choose to acknowledge this or not. If you and the rest of the game Developers never had the intentions of this 8 years ago then you wouldn't have made a leveling system, especially not for PvP. Playing PvP below Endgame is mostly a majority while endgame is just a small band of Players who choose to go this route. At the end of the day some if not all still enjoy the old stuff and would never care much about the new.
Indeed Endgame is new content that brings in revenue but you can't forget the stuff that came before it. If items like Forgotten Bow, Toy Man, Paws, Evis ect were to go on sale right now who'd know how much cash would be made in a single day. <------Warning Dont do this.
Hi, I have an idea, maybe it might be useful for players who did not like it very much, the ammys update, how about having rooms with ammys use options or not? or perhaps for everything to be balanced, only the rings of Plat would be used ... that for Me becomes Everything balanced in pvp 30-40 I hope that at least us of this Option, because it is too sad to take a Fire and a drain and die with two hits! help us make everything fun for everyone! This is only a suggestion.
Great insightGreat insight. Keep it up. I'm an advocate for change and like the direction your going towards.Hey everyone,
So for about the past 3-4 weeks of pvping after coming back from a year gap, I have noticed that the current pvp system became really "fast". What I mean by this is that it's either you nuke or get nuked type of meta.
I want to talk about the pros and cons about this meta and since this is just an opinion of my own, y'all are welcomed to disagree as well. Also, keep in mind that because I have been playing mage class for the most of my pl career, there might be a little bias (Will try my best not to).
Pros:
1) Meta gives a chance for bird users at this level range.
As we already know, birds have been suffering a lot from the past updates and they rarely stood a chance against other mainstream classes at this level range. However, birds with STR weapons now have the potential to fight its way against other mainstream classes, which I think is what birds needed. (Still slightly weak in terms of dodge / armor, but damage seems great).
2) It gives an opportunity for the so called "new generation" players.
Gears have affected pvp a lot in the past and even up to this point. However, unlike the past, where gears significantly determined the winning rates of players, the current meta gives the new players a chance to fight his / her way out against the experienced players. To give an example, a 35 voodoo mage with voodoo set is still able to kill 35 mage with halloween gears (Not so frequently, but can happen if used right). Overall, the amulets compensate the disadvantage in gear stats for the new players.
3) Fast paced PVP
This is something that I find it as a pro and a con simultaneously. Range awareness has become even more significant than the past, to avoid the risk of getting nuked. Fast paced pvp allows games to go by rapidly and allows players to gain faster kills (and deaths as well ofc). It usually takes about 10-30 seconds / each "go" fights (Not all the time, but mostly) and this fast paced pvp offers the new pvp approaching players to gain more experience and the chance to thrive at this level range.
Cons:
1) Amulets
Alright, so amulets are definitely op. The stats are just insane. Maxing out the enchants on 30 amulets can grant you +60 dmg / +60 armor and on top of that, additional stats on your selection of amulets (dodge / crit). To use a bit of analogy, +60 dmg in the perspective of old meta pvp is basically piling up 8-9 ish pink evidence bracers or 12 founders (Scrutinizing only on the damage). What this leads to is a level 30 player being able to nuke down level 40 pallies (Not so often, but is commonly seen nowadays). So the question is, do players have to get this amount of damage to be viable in this pvp range? If 30s can nuke down 35-40 players, what's the point of leveling up to 35 or 40?
2) Damage for all classes.
In relation to the amulets, the damages of all the players have dramatically increased.
To point out some skills of each classes individually, here it goes:
Mage - Drain damage is out of control, out of all the skills. If a 35 mage maxes out on drain, then it can do around 400-500 in crit. Based off of my 35 mage, the health amount is in the high 400s (P.S this means you can miss all your skills and if you land just one single crit drain, you can still win!).
Bear - Beck stomp damage is insane. Idk the specifics of the damage, but hey, grab a 30 bear with couple taunt and raise your beckon / stomp to around 5-6, easy kills. Based off of my experience, even if other classes try their best to kite out the bears, the beck stomp combo is inevitable (Unless you dodge, which happens merely and is luck based). If a 30 bear can nuke down a 40 pally mage, I hope you guys know what that tells you about this pvp range rn.
Fox - I have never played fox, so I hope I don't get criticized for this from the professional fox players (All the respects to you guys), but fox damage is highly op too (Under the condition of landing combos). The cooldown on the dash skills (not just 1, but two dashes) seems a little bit out of balance, but I guess that's what foxes are. Again, based off of my experience, let's say you are playing a game of ffa as other classes besides fox. Let's say you won the first buff fight and since you buffed, your buff is draining out slowly. While you hope to live, you can't! Guess where the fox is after 1-2 seconds, right in front of your face, buffed and ready to nuke you down. Although there is a way to counter this type of situation, it all becomes invalidated if the fox dodges all of your skills while your buff is half away from cooldown. [Too much bias here, my bad]
Birds / rhino - Alright, birds and rhino, I grouped these two classes together because I feel like they are about the same in terms of sustainability. While they are given the chance to nuke when allowed the chance to combo, they can also die easily. I can't really say that these two classes are op, rather they seem more balanced than the other three classes.
So what are some changes that can be made?
1) Nerf the amulets!
Bringing the 3pc rings into lower level pvp was already a huge boost in terms of stats for the majority of the players, but adding amulet stats made slightly off balance pvp into an insane pvp. The damage boost from these amulets should definitely be reconsidered.
2) Reduce the skill damage for the currently OP classes.
I wrote out some particular skills above and I believe that those skills need some nerf (Hopefully damage wise and cooldown wise as well). I hate to restate this, but despite the mage drain being so op, bear beck stomp is just wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much. Hate to be biased here, but Mana shield skill takes about 1-3 seconds to appear, whereas bears' beck stomp can be done within <1 sec. Mages die even before Mana shield goes in, majority of the times and the situation does not get better even if starting off with mana shield.
3) IF balance change is ever made, dodge system should be slightly fixed as well.
Although we know that "Higher number in dodge stats = more chance of dodging," there should be a guideline as to what dodge is and how it works. So basically what I mean by this is that we, as players, don't exactly know how dodge works. What's the difference in 15 dodge vs 17 dodge, despite the difference in numbers? Does it mean that you will avoid 15 hits / 100 times? and does adding 2 more dodge truly yield more dodge overall?
Plat pack bears at 40 can usually dodge all of my skill shots and considering the fact that these bears have 6 beck 6 stomp stomp options, as well as HS / CB to significantly diminish my dmg + dodge rate, there's merely a chance. Although you guys might think, "Why does this mage complain about every single thing? Get a 40 then". I have tried using my 40 mage against 40 bears and the results are usually the same, only different if I am able to land couple dodges against their beckon.
In conclusion:
There are soooooo many other things that can be listed out here, but to narrow down to a conclusion, amulets definitely need some nerf. Although changing the pvp system in just a matter of couple days is impossible, I believe that when the creators update the gears for pvp, they should test it out first and see if the balance is there or not. Tracing down the statistics of how each class does against other classes might be another option. Active feedbacks from the devs and players should be combined together to make this happen, but I am a little disappointed that this isn't happening.
Thank you for your time in reading this and feel free to state what you guys feel about pvp in the (30-40) ranges or other pvp ranges as well.
Best regards,
Jun.
Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
READ TO THE END
PROMOTING SKILLED PLAY by OverkillED
I haven’t played PL in about a year or two or whenever 81 cap was but here’s my 2c on the issue. Coming from a player whose twinked at all level brackets from 1-71 (except 61-66). I might be slight biased cuz i main bird/fox (classes that thrive on fast paced pvp)
MY MAIN POINT: Based on what jun described: fast paced pvp. It’s a good thing. Trying to kill someone for 5 min isn’t fun. Fast paced pvp should be retained with some tweaks.
Now I’m going off on a tangent here so what i say might seem a lil disorganized. Try to hear me out here. This is some background info.
GEAR, LEVEL VS. SKILL
Fast paced pvp with high dmg was what the game was pvp wise before GCD, before and during forg era. Now fast paced pvp is good because it allows most if not all classes to thrive. There’s not as much rock paper scissors involved it’s simply whose faster and who uses their skills the right way. It makes gear less of a factor. Raising defenses and prolonging fights makes pvp based on min-maxing and stats (whoever has better numbers has a GREATLY higher chance of winning) When gear is a huge factorthe poorer players and newer players are severely disadvantaged. High dmg makes level less of a variable. Before the great nerf of dmg post forg my 55 bird would dispatch with 61 sang birds. It wasnt easy but because i was very experienced I could outskill and outspeed these birds. After the nerf i had 0 fighting chance vs them just because statistically their advantage on me was way greater. When this happens, people move up in levels. Say i go 56 or 61. Id get clapped by 66s with no chance of fighting back. And keep moving up till endgame, where LEVEL AND GEAR are less of factors cuz most people have the same stuff.
DIVERSITY
This is something that made the game really fun. Int birds, str birds, str mages, and every imaginable spec in between could do well because high dmg (pre forg pre nerf). Having different ways to play the same class spices things up rather than having a rock paper scissors game. A fast paced pvp game allows this (trust me I tried int/str enchanted staff bird with fort for regen and it worked pretty well before the base dmg nerf). Yes, inherently, some classes counter each other but the counter and variables such as level and gear should not be the “END ALL BE ALL,” meaning it shouldn’t have such an overpowering influence on the outcome of the fight. People pvp to showcase skill vs. each other, not showcase whose got a fatter wallet. Fast paced pvp is good for the game.
MY SUGGESTIONS
Nerf gear (but buff underused gear to increase diversity such as xbows and stuff). This makes gear and therefore level less of a factor. It’s still a factor but not as huge of one as it is now.
Put a high level req on 3pc and amulets. We dont need steroids. Nuff said. It doesn’t feel organic and also deters new players because they are statistically disadvantaged (by A LOT).
To compensate for the massive dmg loss of losing 3pc and amulets in low level pvp, buff base dmg of skills across the board. “But Overkill, this is gonna screw endgame over!” No it’s not. Nerf gear at endgame to compensate for the damage increase in skills.
So why base dmg? Well this gives everyone high dmg to retain the fast paced playstyle while also weeding out items that are basically stat steroids. The best and wealthiest pvpers will still have an advantage over new players because skill and being able to min-maxing their chars. It just won’t be as... oppressive as it is now.
Props to you if you read till the end. Imo what I said above would basically revert PvP to the way it was in 2011 where the skilled players shined and newer players were not completely oppressed and had somewhat of a fighting chance. This in turn lets new players want to stay and grow their skills ——> how pvp communities are formed. (Promotes skilled play instead of geared play)
READ TO THE END
I haven’t played PL in about a year or two or whenever 81 cap was but here’s my 2c on the issue. Coming from a player whose twinked at all level brackets from 1-71 (except 61-66). I might be slight biased cuz i main bird/fox (classes that thrive on fast paced pvp)
MY MAIN POINT: Based on what jun described: fast paced pvp. It’s a good thing. Trying to kill someone for 5 min isn’t fun. Fast paced pvp should be retained with some tweaks.
Now I’m going off on a tangent here so what i say might seem a lil disorganized. Try to hear me out here. This is some background info.
GEAR, LEVEL VS. SKILL
Fast paced pvp with high dmg was what the game was pvp wise before GCD, before and during forg era. Now fast paced pvp is good because it allows most if not all classes to thrive. There’s not as much rock paper scissors involved it’s simply whose faster and who uses their skills the right way. It makes gear less of a factor. Raising defenses and prolonging fights makes pvp based on min-maxing and stats (whoever has better numbers has a GREATLY higher chance of winning) When gear is a huge factorthe poorer players and newer players are severely disadvantaged. High dmg makes level less of a variable. Before the great nerf of dmg post forg my 55 bird would dispatch with 61 sang birds. It wasnt easy but because i was very experienced I could outskill and outspeed these birds. After the nerf i had 0 fighting chance vs them just because statistically their advantage on me was way greater. When this happens, people move up in levels. Say i go 56 or 61. Id get clapped by 66s with no chance of fighting back. And keep moving up till endgame, where LEVEL AND GEAR are less of factors cuz most people have the same stuff.
DIVERSITY
This is something that made the game really fun. Int birds, str birds, str mages, and every imaginable spec in between could do well because high dmg (pre forg pre nerf). Having different ways to play the same class spices things up rather than having a rock paper scissors game. A fast paced pvp game allows this (trust me I tried int/str enchanted staff bird with fort for regen and it worked pretty well before the base dmg nerf). Yes, inherently, some classes counter each other but the counter and variables such as level and gear should not be the “END ALL BE ALL,” meaning it shouldn’t have such an overpowering influence on the outcome of the fight. People pvp to showcase skill vs. each other, not showcase whose got a fatter wallet. Fast paced pvp is good for the game.
MY SUGGESTIONS
Nerf gear (but buff underused gear to increase diversity such as xbows and stuff). This makes gear and therefore level less of a factor. It’s still a factor but not as huge of one as it is now.
Put a high level req on 3pc and amulets. We dont need steroids. Nuff said. It doesn’t feel organic and also deters new players because they are statistically disadvantaged (by A LOT).
To compensate for the massive dmg loss of losing 3pc and amulets in low level pvp, buff base dmg of skills across the board, except the overpowered ones like Jun mentioned. But Overkill, this is gonna screw endgame over!” No it’s not. Nerf gear at endgame to compensate for the damage increase in skills.
So why base dmg? Well this gives everyone high dmg to retain the fast paced playstyle while also weeding out items that are basically stat steroids. The best and wealthiest pvpers will still have an advantage over new players because skill and being able to min-maxing their chars. It just won’t be as... oppressive as it is now. Skill based PvP is based on speed and ability to adapt, imo.
Props to you if you read till the end. Imo what I said above would basically revert PvP to the way it was in 2011 where the skilled players shined and newer players were not completely oppressed and had somewhat of a fighting chance. This in turn lets new players want to stay and grow their skills ——> how pvp communities are formed.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks