Primary Stats, Armor, Damage Reduction, Dodge and Crit, what are their optimums?

[ThreadPolice]

Dear reader,

First of all, thanks for reading this. Earlier Encryptions made a post about this topic about that the max armor is 9k armor, for warriors.

Today, my friends and I retested it, to see if it is related to something I tested back in cap 46 & 56.

What we can conclude is that for tank the required armor is around 9-9.5k

Differences aimed shot 7k, 9k and 15k armor
7,000 armor
4 aimed shots have been made in a row, these gave the following crits, 2.7,3.1 ,2.8 and 3.4.
Of course, the final crits are higher due the armor debuff of aimed shot.

9,000 armor
5 aimed shots have been made in a row, these gave the following crits, 2.4, 2.5, 2.2, 2.6 and 2.8.
Of course, the final crits are higher due the armor debuff of aimed shot.

15,000 armor
5 aimed shots have been made in a row, these gave the following crits, 2.3, 2.6, 2.3, 2.7 and 2.8
Of course, the final crits are higher due the armor debuff of aimed shot.

Crits are not be 100% the same, this is because every time you crit differently, but we took how many crits it took to get the HP of a warrior below 30%.


Now, knowing that the difference between 9,000 armor and 15,000 armor is basically nothing, and the maximum damage reduction is 9%, is arcanite shoggot useful still?
The answer is yes! % armor and % damage reduction are two totally different things!

%Armor is based on the armor you already have, so if you have 9,000 armor, the armor will be 9,000 * 15%. If you have 9,000 armor and the damage reduction (or damage resist) is 15%, 15% of your incoming damage will be resisted. That means, if a rogue does 1,000 damage on your warrior, only 850 damage will be dealt. So therefore, arcanite shoggot remains an OP pet.

Regarding Guenivere and Werewiger, their armor buffs will be insufficient above 9,000 armor.

So how will this work for mage and rogue?
If you take your standard gear, and your standard gear gives you:

• Warrior: 300 armor
• Rogue: 260 armor
• Mage: 245 armor

If the 300 is the max, in this case 9% damage reduction, it means that for mage the calculation will be.. 9,000 / 300 * 245 = 7,350 armor.
Another possible theory could be that everything is simply 9,000 armor.

Crit
Back in cap 46 I have done a couple of tests to find out the maximum crit, and yes, that time it was possible to hit 60%+ crit. Due my findings, I can conclude that 55-60% is the optimum crit for any class.

Dodge
For dodge I suggest to go for 60-70% maximum, I know this is at lv76 cap for a rogue not possible, but normally once something passes 100%, because 100% is equal to 1.

That means whenever you pass 100, it will work vice-versa. So if your dodge passes 130%, it will work vice versa, 130 will be equal to 70%. Because no matter how much dodge you have, you will not dodge every single regular attack, although it should. Therefore 70% is the optimum.

Primary Stats
Since armor became a max of 9,000. I might understand that you will focus now on primary stats. Therefore it is important to know, that HP, Damage and Crit are the most important in game (see explanation at the end of the section).

Primary stats is the main stat of your character. For mage this is INT, for rogue DEX and for warrior STR. An increase in primary stats help you to get stronger skills (Such as the mage shield) and a higher chance on proc rate (E.g. Dragon Staff proc on PvE). Therefore it is very important to keep your primary stat high! Sometimes a balanced combination is even better, depending of the skill, this have influence.

Explanation why HP is more important than Armor
Whether you play twink or endgame, HP and armor will always be a thingy. HP might be more important than armor after all, although most of the people think the opposite. Let me explain why, armor might block skills and regular attacks, that's correct. But does it also block procs?

Armor does not block procs, I have tested the duggar bow proc on 5k armor, 10k armor and 15k armor, the criticals and damage of the proc all have the same decreases per tick.


I hope this thread helps you a bit to in balancing your character and the know-how why certain things work or do not work.


My advice:
Mage: 8,000-8,100 armor
Rogue: 8,300-8,400 armor
Warrior 9,000-9,500 armor

Besides that, focus on your primary status, it makes your character stronger and more efficient!


This is written for PvP and PvE players according due my findings in cap 46 and 56, a couple of years ago. Please, if you have more or more detailed info, let me know.

Kind regards,

Reawakening

[Raziast]

Wow, a nice detailed explanation.
This is something I've been stuffing my head into for some time. And it always got complicated when we start to count with different crit dealings or classes etc. Need devs confirmation on all your calculations.
If your deduction is correct and it actually works like that. Then I wonder if the gold spent on armour awakenings by us PVP players was all for naught?

[snakeeyes]

Thanks for explanation

[snakeeyes]

I think sts need to fix the dodge over 100%?

[chulakamulaka]

Highly appreciate the effort you put into these testings, thank you.

Like the person above mentioned, I'm curious to see if these are official numbers and if all along Armor awakes were just overrated.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[ThreadPolice]

I think sts need to fix the dodge over 100%?

Yes, I think they have too, also because a percentage over 100% is kind of impossible.

Highly appreciate the effort you put into these testings, thank you.

Like the person above mentioned, I'm curious to see if these are official numbers and if all along Armor awakes were just overrated.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

Thank you! But yes, I think a lot of armor awakes were just overrated. Because if a warrior really had 15k armor, it would be impossible to kill it I think.

Wow, a nice detailed explanation.
This is something I've been stuffing my head into for some time. And it always got complicated when we start to count with different crit dealings or classes etc. Need devs confirmation on all your calculations.
If your deduction is correct and it actually works like that. Then I wonder if the gold spent on armour awakenings by us PVP players was all for naught?

[krax]

Bless u for making this thread

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6000 using Tapatalk

[Bluehazee]

How come primary stat increases dragon staff proc chance? What they changed about proc was different.


Actually primary stat increases proc dmg, not proc rate. I don't remember any weapon with a higher proc rate based on higher stat, maybe can enlighten me about this, highly appreciated.

[Fearrr]

Great Thread!

[Laitumkhrah]

Awesome...keep posting useful things like this...and thank u :3

[ThreadPolice]

How come primary stat increases dragon staff proc chance? What they changed about proc was different. Actually primary stat increases proc dmg, not proc rate. I don't remember any weapon with a higher proc rate based on higher stat, maybe can enlighten me about this, highly appreciated.

You may try, remember the times when mages had a tank build and a mage build in mausoleum? Whenever you used a tank build (full STR as a mage), you had less procs compared with someone that used an INT build. Primary stat, in the case of a mage, INT increases proc chance. At least, out of my experience. You may try .

[Bluehazee]

You may try, remember the times when mages had a tank build and a mage build in mausoleum? Whenever you used a tank build (full STR as a mage), you had less procs compared with someone that used an INT build. Primary stat, in the case of a mage, INT increases proc chance. At least, out of my experience. You may try .

Not my intention to derail your thread about this, because i think you have done some effort even though i might disagree or not on some points. But mages procs (mostly using staff) are based on 'chance when dealing dmg', didn't find a single situation where stats difference helped to increase proc rate. What really helps about this subject is use DoT skills (fireball, charged timeshift), because more dmg hits from ticks means more chances to trigger proc.

[ThreadPolice]

Not my intention to derail your thread about this, because i think you have done some effort even though i might disagree or not on some points. But mages procs (mostly using staff) are based on 'chance when dealing dmg', didn't find a single situation where stats difference helped to increase proc rate. What really helps about this subject is use DoT skills (fireball, charged timeshift), because more dmg hits from ticks means more chances to trigger proc.

Well we both have different experiences. But thanks for your feedback, much appreciated!

[InvalidUserName]

Having been a mage for many years now i have to agree with Bluehazee here.

If you take the Immo staff for example. Fireball and Timeshift or any type of DOT damage makes it proc more often.

Try it yourself. Clear a Maus map solo with a mage just using the Immo and no skills and then try the same using fireball before u spam Immo. U will see the difference in proc rate straight away

[ThreadPolice]

Having been a mage for many years now i have to agree with Bluehazee here.

If you take the Immo staff for example. Fireball and Timeshift or any type of DOT damage makes it proc more often.

Try it yourself. Clear a Maus map solo with a mage just using the Immo and no skills and then try the same using fireball before u spam Immo. U will see the difference in proc rate straight away

Yes I agree, that’s why I always used Fireball, clock and gale in mauso. I have to agree with that. But primary stats does make a difference in procs. Not only in procs but also in the strengthening of your skills you may test yourself

[InvalidUserName]

Yes I agree, that’s why I always used Fireball, clock and gale in mauso. I have to agree with that. But primary stats does make a difference in procs. Not only in procs but also in the strengthening of your skills you may test yourself

Yes i see that too as Str build with hex is a pain to proc. I wish devs would give us exact mechanics on how these things work. Would help a lot of us make better builds and improve our overall gameplay experience

[ThreadPolice]

Yes i see that too as Str build with hex is a pain to proc. I wish devs would give us exact mechanics on how these things work. Would help a lot of us make better builds and improve our overall gameplay experience

Exactly! . And even if it will not 100% improve our game experience, I think (from my side) it is very interesting to see/know how it works and what certain decisions are based on.

[reyals]

Yes i see that too as Str build with hex is a pain to proc.

it's same chances to get proc with any build (flame and immo staffs), easiest way to check flame staff - farm jewels in maus (having witch debuff ofc)
both staffs procs works in 2 steps:
1) getting proc at target(s) only by autoattacks (immo staff normal/charged, flame staff - only normal attack)
2) hitting that target by attacks/skills (flame staff - hitting affected target will cause more fire ticks at current target and chances to spread, immo staff - after 10 hits target will get damage with chance to deal aoe damage and chances to banish, your partymates hits counts for both staffs too, pets - im not sure)
damage from flame and immo staff (if it didn't banished and only dealt dmg) depends on your DMG stat (maybe it was reason why you think that it's pain to proc with str)

How come primary stat increases dragon staff proc chance? What they changed about proc was different. Actually primary stat increases proc dmg, not proc rate.

Primary stat doesn't increase dragon staff proc dmg, it deal damage depends on enemy max HP and can be increased by %dmg %ed %bd (and decreased by some things...), your INT or base dmg doesnt affect it. For example you can get trash gear and have 1k dmg but 100% bd VS high dmg gears but 0% bd, you will see what deals more damage by drag staff proc (same about procs of balanced staff/immo bow/duggar bow, but duggar proc also can be crit, so need to have high crit also). It's how drag staff works after last change (at lvl71 expansion), before that change - damage from drag staff proc couldnt be changed, and was based only on enemy's max hp

[Bluehazee]

it's same chances to get proc with any build (flame and immo staffs), easiest way to check flame staff - farm jewels in maus (having witch debuff ofc)
both staffs procs works in 2 steps:
1) getting proc at target(s) only by autoattacks (immo staff normal/charged, flame staff - only normal attack)
2) hitting that target by attacks/skills (flame staff - hitting affected target will cause more fire ticks at current target and chances to spread, immo staff - after 10 hits target will get damage with chance to deal aoe damage and chances to banish, your partymates hits counts for both staffs too, pets - im not sure)
damage from flame and immo staff (if it didn't banished and only dealt dmg) depends on your DMG stat (maybe it was reason why you think that it's pain to proc with str)



Primary stat doesn't increase dragon staff proc dmg, it deal damage depends on enemy max HP and can be increased by %dmg %ed %bd (and decreased by some things...), your INT or base dmg doesnt affect it. For example you can get trash gear and have 1k dmg but 100% bd VS high dmg gears but 0% bd, you will see what deals more damage by drag staff proc (same about procs of balanced staff/immo bow/duggar bow, but duggar proc also can be crit, so need to have high crit also). It's how drag staff works after last change (at lvl71 expansion), before that change - damage from drag staff proc couldnt be changed, and was based only on enemy's max hp

I wasn't referring to dragon staff after the grammatical dot i used before (.)
Ill edit and separate in paragraphs

[Raziast]

need devs attention here. thanks