Faking offers for manipulating the prices

[Giant bench]

Be careful when you use the word "all", I would not be so righteous about it. That said, I agreed with you to not boil more drama but look at the possible solutions to reduce or even possibly prevent market manipulations by guilty people who are still behind the curtains reading at these comments.

You want to know how to reduce item pricing?? Get rid of gold loot. And watch item maul drop to 3m and kershal drop to 7m and bb hooks 5m with in matter of months. Easy.

[PostNoob]

You want to know how to reduce item pricing?? Get rid of gold loot. And watch item maul drop to 3m and kershal drop to 7m and bb hooks 5m with in matter of months. Easy.

Im paying upwards of 10$/Lb for ground beef atm, before this huge economic downturn, it was half that. So cutting off revenue would more than likely follow real economics and prices would go up. Unless demand for those items drop, you wouldnt see a massive decline in value, but probably an upturn.

Sometimes easy isnt the answer.

[Giant bench]

Im paying upwards of 10$/Lb for ground beef atm, before this huge economic downturn, it was half that. So cutting off revenue would more than likely follow real economics and prices would go up. Unless demand for those items drop, you wouldnt see a massive decline in value, but probably an upturn.

Sometimes easy isnt the answer.

That’s what I’m getting at, if people have no gold to buy maul for 100m people over time will start selling for lower price. That’s how it works what’s the point of you Trying to sell a frank set worth 1bil if everyone around you Has maximum gold of 50m or less.

[QuaseT]

If you get a gun and try to kill someone, but fail to do it, you will still go in jail for 'attempted murder'. The intentions of the Encryption guy are clear, he should get banned for it based on Remiem's posts related to price manipulation.

Unless its a toygun - the punishment decreases drastically. And thats how I see this attempt. Shameful but unrealistic and unserious... imo

[Analytical]

You really miss what the world manipulate actually means.

Listing an item in auction for 9m when it costs 5-6m is overpricing. Basically I'm leaving it there, if anybody wants it they can buy it.

Manipulation is when encryptions asked other owners to make fake buying threads, fake c/os for the item and especially mentioned (Don't list it in auction).

You just sound nothing but jealous with your comments. Stop crying cause you couldn't find what you want for a good price and stop blaming others for it

Sent from my TRT-L21A using Tapatalk

Aight, I will attempt to add on what manipulation means as well. If you think it's too long or are lazy to read, feel free to skip it. Not forcing anyone to understand it better. That said, don't shy away from correcting me if you think I made a mistake.

It seems to me some if not many are still confused with the act of hoarding an item regardless of its quantity, versus manipulating the market supply and demand of an item.

Manipulation means you are trying to control or in another words, bold enough to SET the market price for AN item in the SHORT TERM, by artificially creating the market demand (fake offers) and market supply(taking down the whole auction 24/7). Usually the latter seems easier to most richie. And how can one do that? Well you need to make sure no one other than you and a few others agreed with a standard price that's being set, hence effectively manipulating the price of that particular item at you or your monopoly group's will. Chances are, if you see a sudden, often RIDICULOUS rise in price of an item of any kind in a relatively SHORT span of time, its likely and suspicious enough for the result of market manipulations.

That said, is it easy to control the entire market of one relatively expensive item? Big no. How many people in AL can do that if the market has for example over 1,000,000 supply of the same item, say each one of it cost 1m? I would say only a pathetic few. And bear in mind this is just one item, let alone to control most if not all of the items with different price range in AL. Which is why, when market manipulations happen, its usually not just one person (in this case the person that has been exposed here), but very likely a collective few elite players that's doing it to a few items they deem to be profitable.

On the other hand, Hoarding implies that you are going to "hoard" literally the meaning of the word itself is to KEEP for the LONG TERM and not selling it until new market supply catches up with new market demand to determine a new accepted market price range. There's no manipulation involved here. You simply created a LARGE VOLUME (not depleting all supply in market, like in the case of manipulation would require) OF DEMAND for an item in the short term that is certainly gonna affect the new market price because now the supply seems to be temporarily in shortage before supply from other unaware sellers slowly RECOVER again to bring its price down to its previous price range or a slightly higher price range.

An example of how hoarding affect market price is the last day of eggsaviers, many decided that hey its the last day of the event, I should hoard some eggs! There was a sudden acceptable spike in prices of eggs and then slowly it dropped back as people who have been holding their eggs in their stash release it to the market.

To reiterate, unlike manipulation, hoarding does not attempt to take down ALL supply in the market (even though the buyer may think so when the auction is empty because of him), so you are less likely to create a ridiculous spike in prices in the short term, although price will certainly and likely increase rather significantly.

In short, if you aren't wealthy enough to take down all supply in the market ("market" here is not just the auction alone, it includes all sellers, can be found in towns/people u know of) or collaborate with others to do so, there's no way A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL(or a few elite individuals on an agreement) can SET the market price for an item. Which is to say, you can't be involved with price or market manipulations IF AND ONLY IF you can't succeed in SETTING the new market price base on your command alone.

That's my go at it, hope it helps. Feel free to add your input.

[Titanium]

He/she actually made sense in your example. It's not manipulation. It was decently explained.

To add, setting a personal price with the attempt to change the price of the market is a childish thought alone. The market doesn't just consist of one seller and one buyer. The fact that the item is listed in auction for such a price means that he or she is taking a risk that within the listed period, no one else other than him/her is selling it, hence a chance for the buyer to overpay for an item (this is imperfect knowledge of the buyers, no one knows the price of everything, if the buyer did not check prices before making a purchase, there's no one to blame.)

Maybe you are able to provide another example or continue with a more constructive take on market manipulations.

You hit me with the long text and i'm not looking to debate this more, i know what i know.

Encryptions had his argument aswell before being exposed.

Please excuse for my non-constructive actions on this thread.

[arcanefid]

Unless its a toygun - the punishment decreases drastically. And thats how I see this attempt. Shameful but unrealistic and unserious... imo

We can agree to disagree for this case.

[Jausa]

Aight, I will attempt to add on what manipulation means as well. If you think it's too long or are lazy to read, feel free to skip it. Not forcing anyone to understand it better. That said, don't shy away from correcting me if you think I made a mistake.

It seems to me some if not many are still confused with the act of hoarding an item regardless of its quantity, versus manipulating the market supply and demand of an item.

Manipulation means you are trying to control or in another words, bold enough to SET the market price for AN item in the SHORT TERM, by artificially creating the market demand (fake offers) and market supply(taking down the whole auction 24/7). Usually the latter seems easier to most richie. And how can one do that? Well you need to make sure no one other than you and a few others agreed with a standard price that's being set, hence effectively manipulating the price of that particular item at you or your monopoly group's will. Chances are, if you see a sudden, often RIDICULOUS rise in price of an item of any kind in a relatively SHORT span of time, its likely and suspicious enough for the result of market manipulations.

That said, is it easy to control the entire market of one relatively expensive item? Big no. How many people in AL can do that if the market has for example over 1,000,000 supply of the same item, say each one of it cost 1m? I would say only a pathetic few. And bear in mind this is just one item, let alone to control most if not all of the items with different price range in AL. Which is why, when market manipulations happen, its usually not just one person (in this case the person that has been exposed here), but very likely a collective few elite players that's doing it to a few items they deem to be profitable.

On the other hand, Hoarding implies that you are going to "hoard" literally the meaning of the word itself is to KEEP for the LONG TERM and not selling it until new market supply catches up with new market demand to determine a new accepted market price range. There's no manipulation involved here. You simply created a LARGE VOLUME (not depleting all supply in market, like in the case of manipulation would require) OF DEMAND for an item in the short term that is certainly gonna affect the new market price because now the supply seems to be temporarily in shortage before supply from other unaware sellers slowly RECOVER again to bring its price down to its previous price range or a slightly higher price range.

An example of how hoarding affect market price is the last day of eggsaviers, many decided that hey its the last day of the event, I should hoard some eggs! There was a sudden acceptable spike in prices of eggs and then slowly it dropped back as people who have been holding their eggs in their stash release it to the market.

To reiterate, unlike manipulation, hoarding does not attempt to take down ALL supply in the market (even though the buyer may think so when the auction is empty because of him), so you are less likely to create a ridiculous spike in prices in the short term, although price will certainly and likely increase rather significantly.

In short, if you aren't wealthy enough to take down all supply in the market ("market" here is not just the auction alone, it includes all sellers, can be found in towns/people u know of) or collaborate with others to do so, there's no way A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL(or a few elite individuals on an agreement) can SET the market price for an item. Which is to say, you can't be involved with price or market manipulations IF AND ONLY IF you can't succeed in SETTING the new market price base on your command alone.

That's my go at it, hope it helps. Feel free to add your input.

Nobody cares about your definitions Mr Dictionary. "Not forcing anyone to understand it better" understand what better? Your subjective point of view? Your opinion? such a genius, hence the name "Analytical" bet you are fun at a party dude

[Analytical]

Nobody cares about your definitions Mr Dictionary. "Not forcing anyone to understand it better" understand what better? Your subjective point of view? Your opinion? such a genius, hence the name "Analytical" bet you are fun at a party dude

Before you completely demolish my effort to discuss the issue, bear in mind that a forum is the exact place you discuss your opinions/views/experience with other matured people alike. If you feel this is too much for your current age, nobody is forcing you to stay.

To make things worse, If you couldn't even care to read the whole thing respectfully like a grown up adult before jumping into your "hilarious" conclusions unlike what The Golden King did, do not expect me to care either. If anything, you are only effectively making your comment having absolutely zero value to this thread/forum discussion other than a free bump to get the dev's attention. In stark contrast, having read my previous comment, The Golden King at the very least provided few thoughtful and constructive response/suggestions which adds depth to the discussion, what have you done on the other hand other than trying to fan a drama?

Also, If you have read more comprehensively instead of intentionally handpicking some holes in my statements to start a fight/drama, you would see I clearly stated that if anyone has better ways of illustrating the difference feel free to correct me.

Last, If you are gonna continue to be salty and try to initiate an offence, I'm not gonna waste any more of my time responding to you.

Peace out.

[Titanium]

Before you completely demolish my effort to discuss the issue, bear in mind that a forum is the exact place you discuss your opinions/views/experience with other matured people alike. If you feel this is too much for your current age, nobody is forcing you to stay.

To make things worse, If you couldn't even care to read the whole thing respectfully like a grown up adult before jumping into your "hilarious" conclusions unlike what The Golden King did, do not expect me to care either. If anything, you are only effectively making your comment having absolutely zero value to this thread/forum discussion other than a free bump to get the dev's attention. In stark contrast, having read my previous comment, The Golden King at the very least provided few thoughtful and constructive response/suggestions which adds depth to the discussion, what have you done on the other hand other than trying to fan a drama?

Also, If you have read more comprehensively instead of intentionally handpicking some holes in my statements to start a fight/drama, you would see I clearly stated that if anyone has better ways of illustrating the difference feel free to correct me.

Last, If you are gonna continue to be salty and try to initiate an offence, I'm not gonna waste any more of my time responding to you.

Peace out.

golden king and encryptions are actually friends in game.

we really dont care anymore about explanations nor constructive arguments.

We are living it with it at this point, stop making long arguments cause nobody has time to read that.

You cannot repair his image or his actions.

[Giant bench]

Before you completely demolish my effort to discuss the issue, bear in mind that a forum is the exact place you discuss your opinions/views/experience with other matured people alike. If you feel this is too much for your current age, nobody is forcing you to stay.

To make things worse, If you couldn't even care to read the whole thing respectfully like a grown up adult before jumping into your "hilarious" conclusions unlike what The Golden King did, do not expect me to care either. If anything, you are only effectively making your comment having absolutely zero value to this thread/forum discussion other than a free bump to get the dev's attention. In stark contrast, having read my previous comment, The Golden King at the very least provided few thoughtful and constructive response/suggestions which adds depth to the discussion, what have you done on the other hand other than trying to fan a drama?

Also, If you have read more comprehensively instead of intentionally handpicking some holes in my statements to start a fight/drama, you would see I clearly stated that if anyone has better ways of illustrating the difference feel free to correct me.

Last, If you are gonna continue to be salty and try to initiate an offence, I'm not gonna waste any more of my time responding to you.

Peace out.

I wouldn’t pay attention to him, he believes inflation is a myth and says the 500 billion gold added into the game is “fake/irrelevant”.

Even though CINCO the CEO of AL confirmed it was true.

[Analytical]

golden king and encryptions are actually friends in game.

we really dont care anymore about explanations nor constructive arguments.

We are living it with it at this point, stop making long arguments cause nobody has time to read that.

You cannot repair his image or his actions.

Hey bud, appreciate the respectful response.

Just to clarify my response above long or short, is not intended to defend the individual exposed here nor do I have the time to offend anyone, if I did appear to be, my apologies. My sole intention is to hopefully provide some perspectives to the topic on price manipulations like what many others here have done.

And thanks for the feedback on my long arguements, I joined forum just a few weeks ago, didn't know that only short comments are allowed here. Pardon my ignorance.

Cheers

[Jausa]

I wouldn’t pay attention to him, he believes inflation is a myth and says the 500 billion gold added into the game is “fake/irrelevant”.

Even though CINCO the CEO of AL confirmed it was true.

Inflation isn't a myth. Inflation through these recent events bumping up the prices of top tier items 3 times up is a myth, just to cover up and justify price manipulation/overpricing. This event wasn't that profitable to cause inflation like nothing ever caused before. 300b-500b gold? I know what the CEO said, I also know that if gold droped from chests was calculated then the number is incorrect. A lot of chests bought from auction were listed at 40k and were opened just to drop 12k gold. That number would be correct ONLY if chests dropped more gold than their cost was to open/buy or if the chests were not tradable.

[Giant bench]

Inflation isn't a myth. Inflation through these recent events bumping up the prices of top tier items 3 times up is a myth, just to cover up and justify price manipulation/overpricing. This event wasn't that profitable to cause inflation like nothing ever caused before. 300b-500b gold? I know what the CEO said, I also know that if gold droped from chests was calculated then the number is incorrect. A lot of chests bought from auction were listed at 40k and were opened just to drop 12k gold. That number would be correct ONLY if chests dropped more gold than their cost was to open/buy or if the chests were not tradable.

See told you he’s a moron Sorry.

Cinco confirm number is true and yet you still deny it. Smh this is my last post. Again sorry for calling you a moron but kinda hard not to call you one. Again am sorry.

[Jausa]

See told you he’s a moron Sorry.

Cinco confirm number is true and yet you still deny it. Smh this is my last post. Again sorry for calling you a moron but kinda hard not to call you one. Again am sorry.

I did NOT deny it. I said it's incorrect because the chests were tradable and cost gold to open, most of the time more gold to open than the gold they dropped. You are the moron here for not comprehending such a simple thing. Say whatever you want, I couldn't care less.

[Overbear]

Aight, I will attempt to add on what manipulation means as well. If you think it's too long or are lazy to read, feel free to skip it. Not forcing anyone to understand it better. That said, don't shy away from correcting me if you think I made a mistake.

It seems to me some if not many are still confused with the act of hoarding an item regardless of its quantity, versus manipulating the market supply and demand of an item.

Manipulation means you are trying to control or in another words, bold enough to SET the market price for AN item in the SHORT TERM, by artificially creating the market demand (fake offers) and market supply(taking down the whole auction 24/7). Usually the latter seems easier to most richie. And how can one do that? Well you need to make sure no one other than you and a few others agreed with a standard price that's being set, hence effectively manipulating the price of that particular item at you or your monopoly group's will. Chances are, if you see a sudden, often RIDICULOUS rise in price of an item of any kind in a relatively SHORT span of time, its likely and suspicious enough for the result of market manipulations.

That said, is it easy to control the entire market of one relatively expensive item? Big no. How many people in AL can do that if the market has for example over 1,000,000 supply of the same item, say each one of it cost 1m? I would say only a pathetic few. And bear in mind this is just one item, let alone to control most if not all of the items with different price range in AL. Which is why, when market manipulations happen, its usually not just one person (in this case the person that has been exposed here), but very likely a collective few elite players that's doing it to a few items they deem to be profitable.

On the other hand, Hoarding implies that you are going to "hoard" literally the meaning of the word itself is to KEEP for the LONG TERM and not selling it until new market supply catches up with new market demand to determine a new accepted market price range. There's no manipulation involved here. You simply created a LARGE VOLUME (not depleting all supply in market, like in the case of manipulation would require) OF DEMAND for an item in the short term that is certainly gonna affect the new market price because now the supply seems to be temporarily in shortage before supply from other unaware sellers slowly RECOVER again to bring its price down to its previous price range or a slightly higher price range.

An example of how hoarding affect market price is the last day of eggsaviers, many decided that hey its the last day of the event, I should hoard some eggs! There was a sudden acceptable spike in prices of eggs and then slowly it dropped back as people who have been holding their eggs in their stash release it to the market.

To reiterate, unlike manipulation, hoarding does not attempt to take down ALL supply in the market (even though the buyer may think so when the auction is empty because of him), so you are less likely to create a ridiculous spike in prices in the short term, although price will certainly and likely increase rather significantly.

In short, if you aren't wealthy enough to take down all supply in the market ("market" here is not just the auction alone, it includes all sellers, can be found in towns/people u know of) or collaborate with others to do so, there's no way A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL(or a few elite individuals on an agreement) can SET the market price for an item. Which is to say, you can't be involved with price or market manipulations IF AND ONLY IF you can't succeed in SETTING the new market price base on your command alone.

That's my go at it, hope it helps. Feel free to add your input.

I'm confused, why are you comparing the definitions of each? That's like saying the word "chicken" refers to a chicken, but the word "rooster" refers to a rooster. They're not going to have the same definition. Just because Hoarding doesn't directly equal manipulation. doesnt mean that hoarding isn't a FORM of manipulation. Atleast in terms of the AL gold market. And hoarding isn't always done long term. Hoarding is usually done until you can turn a profit, which considering if there are only a few of the item, and they all decide to make price go up, then they can successfully turn a profit in the matter of a few days. Just stop, please.

[Analytical]

Here you go:
https://www.spacetimestudios.com/sho...t=trend+market
Attachment 207269

A quick research into past similar forum threads would have answered your ignorance on this topic, perhaps reading more before commenting purely based on your invalidated opinion helps you sound a tiny bit more matured.

[Disclaimer: Before you read any further, my Intention is to hopefully clear up some if not all doubts on the topic of price manipulation, I'm not interested in defending anyone stance nor do I have the time to engage in a meaningless drama]

"Price manipulation is not real in AL"
It seems to me there's clearly a lack of understanding between merching(short term/long term) and manipulation as well as how the price of an item is determined.

"We as the people set the price not STS"
I believe you meant each of us get to decide what price we are eventually gonna sell our items, correct me if I misunderstood you. While that's partially true, think about selling an item say deary egg for 100m, would anyone in their right mind buy? AN INDIVIDUAL DO NOT SET THE PRICE for an item. One person who decides to sell at a particular price contributes to the overall market demand and market supply which ultimately sets the price for that item.

"To say we should get banned for selling an item at the price we want is to say beggars should get banned for begging."
I don't see how is this a relevant analogy, but nice attempt anyway (:

"I bet you’re the type of person believe that 500bil inflation is fake and the moon is made out of cheese"
I appreciate your sense of humor but it seems a completely redundant remark.

Now, Let's get into some real talk.

First, prices of an item goes up and down because of the constantly changing market supply and market demand. For any item, there's a ceiling price(max price) and floor price(min price) people are willing to pay for. Depending on supply of that item, the floor price may be pressured to go lower if supply is abundant, similarly, if demand for that item is high enough while the supply is limited, the ceiling price will be forced to break to a new height. Now, when you decide to sell an item at a price that's within the CURRENT min and max price range(not a day/week/months/years ago), you are selling the item at the current market price.

Merching happens when you buy an item that's below the maximum market price (ceiling price) and sell it at an appropriate time at the ceiling price or higher than the amount of you bought for. Here, your merching profit depends on the gap between the price you bought and the the ceiling price at the time you intend to sell as the market price range changes over time. The Larger the gap, the more profit you get. As a side differentiation from merching, lowballing is when you offer to buy something outside of the min and max bracket people are currently paying for. Of course, there are people willing to sell way below the current market price range when they are in a rush, you did not lowball an offer but rather received a lowball selling price.

As an example:
Let's say mishi egg's current price range is this: 2m = floor price, and 3m = ceiling price. Selling at anywhere within 2m-3m, you are selling at the current market price. Merching means for e.g. you are buying at say 2m and selling at 2.5m.

Manipulation is when you are selling an item that is set by you or a small group of people solely instead of by the overall people in the market. In other words, manipulation involves one or a few individuals attempting to control the entire market supply and demand to create a false and new accepted market price range. In a free market where the demand & supply for an item is not being artificially created, it is not possible to sell at any price you want because market price is determined by actual market demand and market supply a.k.a the average of the sum of all legitimate, interested buyers & willing sellers and not by a single individiual. You might ask: what if I have no intention to manipulate the price I'm just hoarding some of them so that i can sell later when price goes up? Well, this is a very tricky question. (I will attempt to the best of my ability to distinguish the difference between the two) Hoarding can be understood as a form of long term merch, however depending on what you are doing with the items you hoard, you may either be merching or doing something that's against the TOS i.e. actively manipulating the market supply and demand.

As an example:

For anyone who has over 50m, you can very significantly if not entirely control the whole market supply and demand of say magma eggs. Let's assume for simplicity sake the market currently has 1000 magma eggs, i.e. 1000 willing sellers waiting for buyers. Say, initially other than these 1000 legitimate sellers, there are also a 1000 legitimate buyers of magma eggs. Being one of the 1000 legitimate buyers, and the richest among all of them, you bought all the 1000 magma eggs from the 1000 sellers. No one in the market except you has magma eggs. Now, the remaining 999 people who was looking to buy magma egg at the market price now is forced to buy at the price you are willing to sell because only you has magma eggs and nobody else has it. Now this, is market or price manipulation.

How about hoarding? If I hoard all magma eggs and not sell them until after some time would i be considered as manipulating the market? The answer is no. Why? Because the new supply of magma eggs (from new sellers other than the 1000 sellers earlier) will slowly match the demand of 999 people (or possibly more people) in the market to determine a new market price. Yes indeed, the new market price would have raised to a new higher bar from say 10k to now 50k because you hoarded them but you did not manipulate the market in a way that doesn't allow the market to have its free flow of supply and demand, manipulating would mean you actively play a role to control the market at all times (i.e. whenever a new seller of magma eggs appear you buy it, making you the only seller of magma eggs at all time for now and forever or as long as you play AL)

The above are my attempts to provide some over-simplistic examples on how merching/hoarding and price manipulations works. Hopefully it clears some doubts, if anyone has better input, feel free to add (:

Here you go overbear if you care enough to read, if not we are still cool (The above is part 1)

To clarify on your question on why I had to define the two, my attempt is to suggest that under few specific circumstances, hoarding is NOT considered as a form of market manipulations and vice versa.

Appreciate that you bring up the fact that hoarding doesn't necessarily mean long term, thanks for pointing that out.

Would love to hear you inputs too, either you chose to read and remained silent or replied with a new input, I would respect your decision. Cheers.

[Dropdamic]

Sad what people will do to make pixel gold.

[Lookupnabs]

Fake prices and manipulation is what made many players rich including all the youtubers and people who got merched/scammed have quit and now only toxic people like the above exist .... so no point talking now........

Toxicity level-

(Buy all rush sales cheap / sell egg no merch , lowballs autoignored and reported)

- all i see is this is pp and expedition
so is beyond help........
- friend Arlorian( mage)

[Tampia]

I don’t get all these barks about “fake C.o” if y’all don’t like the Current offer Or it’s too high then just say pass cuz they probably have auto price for that item THATS why it’s “Current Offer”. If y’all don’t like the price or the offer of the player or the player they just made up, then find another seller or buy from auction. No need for all these panic and complain like someone is about to end your life like... if you think their “current offer” is too high then pass, move on to another seller. Not everything is for free. If you can’t buy it, then don’t. If you don’t like the price, then don’t buy it. Simple. People’s brain these days . U come to that seller while interested in their Item, don’t cry and complain about their prices. It’s their item and it’s their property. Just Wish them Good luck for it to sell lol


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