Enchants

[holdmytalons]

Str dex int and m/s h/s enchants suould be removed just keep armor damage and health so enchanting isnt as cancerous

[Bidigeldi]

Remove lower values and only keep max values so enchanting isnt as cancerous

[Vapourised]

Str dex int and m/s h/s enchants suould be removed just keep armor damage and health so enchanting isnt as cancerous

The purpose of enchanting wasn't to make for an interesting or fun feature. Nor was it for trying out different gear set ups with different enchants or to create variety. It would be nice if this were true and this was exactly what we thought the enchanting system would promote.

Instead if it was nefarious scheme to force people to go endgame cos they made the levelling in this game hard af. So they forced people to take the p2w grinding method i.e spending platinum.

The point of enchants was to kill low level pvp and bring revenue from grinding to endgame. And also bring in revenue from those unskilled players (aka new people) who couldn't handle regular pvp so decided to overspend on enchanting. The emphasis was on milking money not player satisfaction.

If enchantments were intended to be an enjoyable feature, there wouldn't be an RNG element to it. we wouldn't have trash stats in the reroll table. We wouldn't have to risk losing a good slot to get a better one.

Bottomline is: You have nice suggestions and I really wish for them to be implemented but it is kind of pointless to bring them up. I'm not faulting you. I just think that there's no chance that feedback will be acknowledged by the devs because of how they are. Money first, player consideration at the bottom. But they it's worth a try I guess.




Major rant (possibly full of ignorance):
As well as some questions for people who were there when pvp died @MageFFA e.g.

I don't really want to tell people how to spend their money but as soon as people started enchanting and buying QTRs, pvp was doomed. It's essentially like saying 'yes i support these trash updates please kill the game even more!'.
I have no clue how low level pvp died so if someone could fill me in I would be grateful. I returned in 2020 so missed that bit but I can speculate.

A group of boosters, noobs, trolls (the less desirable sort) decided to enchant and buy QTR to gain an unfair advantage. Now this wasn't really a problem since my guess is that only a handful of players did these. Hardly anyone's that pathetic right? Then, what I call the normal people, tried to pvp as usual but were kind of forced to indulge in these toxic features too. And that was the nail in the coffin.
And that point there was a lot of enchanting and purchases of QTR weapons. Cinco decides to let these stay because of how popular they are and how much revenue they bring in. That makes sense. Who would get rid of their money makers?

I feel like, while yes Cinco does introduce features we disagree with, players should shoulder some of the blame for supporting those features with purchases. Because why would Cinco keep a feature that wasn't making money? I'm sorry if I come across as judgmental but I believe that people should have resisted the temptation to enchant or buy QTR to defend themselves. The storm would have passed. Cinco would realize his error and would have removed those features just like he did with no pvp restrictions.

What happened to the good ol' booting and private games? Booting would have surely been fine since only a few players enchanted and bought QTR at the start (pure guess again)? Let me reiterate that. If there's like only 5 boosters in the whole of pvp from 56-71, booting shouldn't be an issue.
We as a low lvl pvp community managed to survive and reverse no pvp restrictions so why wasn't enchants/ QTRs within our scope?
Also why did people quit these lvls and not just host private games? Was it because people were dishonest saying they had clean gear when they did not?

Just want to say that I'm guessing these are the reasons for 51-76 dying as well as logical solutions that would have forced devs to remove enchants or QTRs.

P.S: Just wanted to quickly add: I'm in no way shape or form blaming/judging people who bought QTR or enchants. It is understandable. All I am suggesting is that perhaps there was a better approach to 'if you can't beat them, join em'. I.e booting, hosting private games until the disliked features were removed all together.
Would this approach have saved pvp? I'm not entirely sure. It's very easy for me to say these things in hindsight.



Also @Estate
Ik ur not going to agree with this at all so you might not want to waste ur time here. Thanks.

@Cinco Wasn't trying to be rude in my posts. Just providing my perspective on why I think the game moved in the direction it did. I understand that STS is a business at the end of the day and it would pay to remember that.

[MageFFA]

The purpose of enchanting wasn't to make for an interesting or fun feature. Nor was it for trying out different gear set ups with different enchants or to create variety. It would be nice if this were true and this was exactly what we thought the enchanting system would promote.

Instead if it was nefarious scheme to force people to go endgame cos they made the levelling in this game hard af. So they forced people to take the p2w grinding method i.e spending platinum.

The point of enchants was to kill low level pvp and bring revenue from grinding to endgame. And also bring in revenue from those unskilled players (aka new people) who couldn't handle regular pvp so decided to overspend on enchanting. The emphasis was on milking money not player satisfaction.

If enchantments were intended to be an enjoyable feature, there wouldn't be an RNG element to it. we wouldn't have trash stats in the reroll table. We wouldn't have to risk losing a good slot to get a better one.

Bottomline is: You have nice suggestions and I really wish for them to be implemented but it is kind of pointless to bring them up. I'm not faulting you. I just think that there's no chance that feedback will be acknowledged by the devs because of how they are. Money first, player consideration at the bottom. But they it's worth a try I guess.




Major rant (possibly full of ignorance):
As well as some questions for people who were there when pvp died @MageFFA e.g.

I don't really want to tell people how to spend their money but as soon as people started enchanting and buying QTRs, pvp was doomed. It's essentially like saying 'yes i support these trash updates please kill the game even more!'.
I have no clue how low level pvp died so if someone could fill me in I would be grateful. I returned in 2020 so missed that bit but I can speculate.

A group of boosters, noobs, trolls (the less desirable sort) decided to enchant and buy QTR to gain an unfair advantage. Now this wasn't really a problem since my guess is that only a handful of players did these. Hardly anyone's that pathetic right? Then, what I call the normal people, tried to pvp as usual but were kind of forced to indulge in these toxic features too. And that was the nail in the coffin.
And that point there was a lot of enchanting and purchases of QTR weapons. Cinco decides to let these stay because of how popular they are and how much revenue they bring in. That makes sense. Who would get rid of their money makers?

I feel like, while yes Cinco does introduce features we disagree with, players should shoulder some of the blame for supporting those features with purchases. Because why would Cinco keep a feature that wasn't making money? I'm sorry if I come across as judgmental but I believe that people should have resisted the temptation to enchant or buy QTR to defend themselves. The storm would have passed. Cinco would realize his error and would have removed those features just like he did with no pvp restrictions.

What happened to the good ol' booting and private games? Booting would have surely been fine since only a few players enchanted and bought QTR at the start (pure guess again)? Let me reiterate that. If there's like only 5 boosters in the whole of pvp from 56-71, booting shouldn't be an issue.
We as a low lvl pvp community managed to survive and reverse no pvp restrictions so why wasn't enchants/ QTRs within our scope?
Also why did people quit these lvls and not just host private games? Was it because people were dishonest saying they had clean gear when they did not?

Just want to say that I'm guessing these are the reasons for 51-76 dying as well as logical solutions that would have forced devs to remove enchants or QTRs.

P.S: Just wanted to quickly add: I'm in no way shape or form blaming/judging people who bought QTR or enchants. It is understandable. All I am suggesting is that perhaps there was a better approach to 'if you can't beat them, join em'. I.e booting, hosting private games until the disliked features were removed all together.
Would this approach have saved pvp? I'm not entirely sure. It's very easy for me to say these things in hindsight.



Also @Estate
Ik ur not going to agree with this at all so you might not want to waste ur time here. Thanks.

@Cinco Wasn't trying to be rude in my posts. Just providing my perspective on why I think the game moved in the direction it did. I understand that STS is a business at the end of the day and it would pay to remember that.

If i was going to do a timeline for when twink initially started to become the dead horse being stomped on I'd go about it like this. First we start in 2015 when the 2 level PvP restrictions came into existence. This effected many zones on a negative scale because it cut off many large player pools from playing with each other. Example 15 and 20, 22 and 27, 30 and 35, 35 and 40, 51 and 56, 56 and 61, 61 and 66, last but not least 66 and 71. Overall a bad idea at the time but the devs had their reasoning. Many trolls kept complaining about level advantages in PvP dispite most of them already having a higher level to use anyways.

2016 is where is officially started for me. 2016 saw 100% nerf on ALL gears from 5 to 77. We are talking a 50% Crit reduction, a 12% damage reduction, a 50% hit reduction, a 10% armor reduction, a 50% dodge reduction. At 71 and above the damage output was lowered by 20% while 70 and below was nerfed by 12%. For a while 70 was actually better than 71+, still is the case if 3pc doesn't have a role in the matchup. I can remember vividly my 70 crusher rhino beating down 76 savage bears with egg. All in all. Worst update ever. Caused many to quit with StS bringing back every item, meaning making everyrhing tradable including gear that players had to cap certain levels for. Plus a mass ban of 300 players myself included.

2017 is a blur. I left the 3pc infested twink PvP during this time to go to 71 then endgame. I don't believe any major update occurred this year but i think a valentine update came that buffed the valentine items and gave out more from item packs.

2018 sheesh. 2018 saw the removal of ALL PvP restrictions. This is what actually ended twink originally. With no PvP restrictions it became impossible to play twink any longer. 100s was boosting off of 15s and 35s, and the only thing the devs had to say about it was hosting private games. It was like this all the way to the end of the year. I practically gave up on PL while this was happening. It eventually was put back to normal but the damage was already done. I brought back 56-71 with Logan, ducky, and we had a thriving community there for a while. We even had a tournament in 71, if you can even call it a tournament since Jen made the tournament last months then ended it when enchantments came at the end of the year. 2018 was a goodish time for twink. 3pc was still an issue but 30 was thriving. Blitz even came back to play for a bit.

Then enchants came into existence in 2018-2019. It was a completely joke and it's responsible for why the 71 tourney has alot of negativity surrounding it, enchantments came during a active tournament and the match concluded with jen winning since she could spend hundreds of USD enchanting for max. During this time period enchantments couldn't be locked so if you role one max slot chances are you're going to lose that on the next role. I've personally spent 300m enchanting in 2019 for 35 and 105. That's how expensive it was to enchant at the time. Now max enchantment slots cannot be obtained by gold for armors and shields i believe. You can only obtain them by rolling with plat. So we saw alot of rigged gameplay for endgame thanks to this. Twink was terrible thanks to enchantments. Mages benefitted the most from it while birds was "brought back" dispite being far worse than they were in 2012-2014.

Just when we thought it couldn't get any worse. Gleam and tinsel was released. These 2 pets have 3k hp, 3k damage, and 3x movement speed.a good pet for PvE, a very bad thing when it could be used in PvP. Booster heaven is what PvP was like for a couple weeks. Didn't last long so there wasn't any major impact. Just when that was gone we recieved Elite items from loot boxes. Since they came from loot boxes i could say around 30 some total players had these elite items. Hosting a match in 27-40 only meant that a troll with elites is going to show up just to boost off of you, and all you could do was boot or leave. StS officially made the elite items a permanent drop for events so it made the PvP more fair, as fair as you can get with them.

Now we are in 2020 where we have mythic amulets and that's it. Keep in mind this is just for twink alone. I could make a whole damn thread on what happened to endgame post 77 cap where the game really went down hill. 77 was the last good cap, if you include 100 cap before it was ruined.

[Vapourised]

^That sure is a lot wow! Something similar happened to another one of my favorite games of all time- Tanki Online. One of the best games up to 2015 but devs decided to kill it by locking content behind a paywall. Became a cash grab. Tanki Online and Pocket legends. The sad reality is that finding quality games is hard these days.

But I still got Brawl stars which is why I'm content. A lot of us from PL have moved there. Would try mobile legends but I've already progressed quite far in brawl stars so eh.

@holdmytalons
Ooops accidently derailed ur thread. Sorry about that.

[MageFFA]

If enchants and elites stayed in endgame where they belong then there wouldn't be any problem. Nobody wanted any of this in twink. Enchantments came during 105 cap so why wouldn't it have been only enabled for 105+? Why would you enable a feature that practically waters down the normal stats of gear into something less enjoyable. 35 could barely handle the fbow era. What made the devs think that it could handle enchantments and Elites that eclipses Fbow? I want to host a L.30 Lost expo tourney. Yet looking at the stats i don't think it's a good idea. 214 damage 185 armor on a level 30. That's level 61 stats.

This has nothing to do with adapting to a new meta either. Halloween gear was a new meta. Plat gear was a new meta. All of the event based items created a new meta. Yet how much of a change did any of those gears inflict on the overall balance of the game with fbow being the exception. Snowball launcher could still lose to a talon in 15. Toy could lose to a crystalline wand in 27. Reaper was always at odds with plat sword. Hell plat sword set never could beat copper at 35 and thoth at 40 so that says alot. Yet these elites come in and nothing stands a chance. Even 71 gear is inferior. Ontop of that how do you adapt to a 1 sided meta that favors healing based classes the most like mages?

[Vapourised]

If memory serves me correctly, I do believe that enchants system was only brought to the two most popular legends: PL and AL.
I wonder. Would that make star legends worth playing then?


Edit: Alright I've typed 'enchantments' in search bar and it only brings up threads from AL and PL. I assume enchants hasn't made it to SL. The next step for me is to find out if low lvl pvp has been ruined in any way but the results so far have been encouraging!

[Cinco]

If memory serves me correctly, I do believe that enchants system was only brought to the two most popular legends: PL and AL.
I wonder. Would that make star legends worth playing then?


Edit: Alright I've typed 'enchantments' in search bar and it only brings up threads from AL and PL. I assume enchants hasn't made it to SL. The next step for me is to find out if low lvl pvp has been ruined in any way but the results so far have been encouraging!

They’re called “Item.Mods” in Star Legends.


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[Waug]

I don't think anyone would be mad if enchants is being taken back although there's no need to do it and there's other ways to bypass it. It's worthless in pve and only usable for pvp and those used it most aren't pvp-ing and had enough lesson that enchantment won't make their pvp experience any better since there won't be any player base in the first place same with gun which had greater impact on pvp making it deserter or was making it deserter, whatever.

[ImRandy]

Enchants = Business = STS makes stuff I like and I spend money on it!

[MageFFA]

People wouldn't have an issue with enchantments being in PvP if the slots didn't include Armor, HP, and Damage modifiers. Instead lesser stats such as Str, Dex, Int, H/s, and M/s. That would of been far better than what we have now.

[Vapourised]

I don't think anyone would be mad if enchants is being taken back although there's no need to do it and there's other ways to bypass it. It's worthless in pve and only usable for pvp and those used it most aren't pvp-ing and had enough lesson that enchantment won't make their pvp experience any better since there won't be any player base in the first place same with gun which had greater impact on pvp making it deserter or was making it deserter, whatever.

Exactly. The people who used the enchants system have been cheated by it. Spend all their gold to max gear only for the pvp zones to become empty. And they became empty for that exact reason.

But meh to it all. There's literally 5000 better games out there rn. Get hunting peeps.

[Vapourised]

Enchants = Business = STS makes stuff I like and I spend money on it!

Blizzard is also a business. I don't see world of warcraft introducing game killing features but STS likes to troll its playerbase it seems. Ur telling me its impossible to have both good revenue and a largely satisfied playerbase? Sacrificing one for another is a dumb concept but Blizzard has avoided this. It's common sense that happy players mean more money but this seems to have slipped through the minds of the devs. If you don't believe me, look at PL during 2010-2012. STS was raking in revenue I believe. They could have kept what was already perfect but they didn't. WoW is still going strong despite being older than PL isnt that funny? The WoW dev team is really involved with the community and that's why WoW killers failed. STS could have rivalled WoW but they decided to turn their diamond into mud.

Oh well. It's STS's loss. We as players can just move on when a game becomes trash. The devs are more bound to it as it's their source of income. A dying game hurts them more despite any façade they might put up.

[Cinco]

Blizzard is also a business. I don't see world of warcraft introducing game killing features but STS likes to troll its playerbase it seems. Ur telling me its impossible to have both good revenue and a largely satisfied playerbase? Sacrificing one for another is a dumb concept but Blizzard has avoided this. It's common sense that happy players mean more money but this seems to have slipped through the minds of the devs. If you don't believe me, look at PL during 2010-2012. STS was raking in revenue I believe. They could have kept what was already perfect but they didn't. WoW is still going strong despite being older than PL isnt that funny? The WoW dev team is really involved with the community and that's why WoW killers failed. STS could have rivalled WoW but they decided to turn their diamond into mud.

Oh well. It's STS's loss. We as players can just move on when a game becomes trash. The devs are more bound to it as it's their source of income. A dying game hurts them more despite any façade they might put up.

Subscriptions.


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[Vapourised]

Subscriptions.


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I’m still under the impression that STS had a really effective and successful monetisation model in the early years 2010-2014. A one which brought as much revenue as a subscription model. I could be entirely and utterly wrong though.

Also supercell games aren’t subscription based but their games pull in a lot of cash. And the latest one is extremely free to play friendly despite having a system where you can buy a pass.

I’m not trying to put down STS by giving this example. All I want to show is that making crazy revenue and lots and lots of satisfied players are NOT mutually exclusive. This is what I think pocket legends did really well at one point and I just don’t understand why there was a decision to move away from that.

Please enlighten us. But i do appreciate this may constitute as confidential information.

[holdmytalons]

People wouldn't have an issue with enchantments being in PvP if the slots didn't include Armor, HP, and Damage modifiers. Instead lesser stats such as Str, Dex, Int, H/s, and M/s. That would of been far better than what we have now.

Yea i change my mind remove health armor and damage enchants simple fix

[Cinco]

I’m still under the impression that STS had a really effective and successful monetisation model in the early years 2010-2014. A one which brought as much revenue as a subscription model. I could be entirely and utterly wrong though.

Also supercell games aren’t subscription based but their games pull in a lot of cash. And the latest one is extremely free to play friendly despite having a system where you can buy a pass.

I’m not trying to put down STS by giving this example. All I want to show is that making crazy revenue and lots and lots of satisfied players are NOT mutually exclusive. This is what I think pocket legends did really well at one point and I just don’t understand why there was a decision to move away from that.

Please enlighten us. But i do appreciate this may constitute as confidential information.

Supercell’s brilliant PvP games are fairly distinct from any MMORPG anywhere in the marketplace :-)

How would you feel about a subscription or a season pass system for “PL 2”

[3pc]

Supercell’s brilliant PvP games are fairly distinct from any MMORPG anywhere in the marketplace :-)

How would you feel about a subscription or a season pass system for “PL 2”

If its actually a reasonable price i think many would go for it..

[holdmytalons]

If its actually a reasonable price i think many would go for it..

Whos gonna pay a subscription to play pl lol

[MageFFA]

Supercell’s brilliant PvP games are fairly distinct from any MMORPG anywhere in the marketplace :-)

How would you feel about a subscription or a season pass system for “PL 2”

If "PL 2" is classic PL, 2010-2011, then bring it on.