Zodias Weapon Nerf Discussion

[Cinco]

Updated OP to indicate that it’s not just War gear that is going to be looked at.


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[Xmap-AL]

Hope you buff the sword and aegis
Warrior getting nab at this time
Always get nerfed and how about rog and mage?

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[caabarader]

I'll keep the Warrior ultimate in the mix as this change unfolds. 6x damage is pretty OP :-)

This suggested change does not address the gear issue with Neptaris and the Kraken Battle Shell armor proc.

I don't know if it really happens, But I think that the ult is so op that's why wars kraken sword didnt't got the damage of kraken gun/bow.(even tho mostly runs at zodias can be done so fast without It)

Getting out of Topic, Just curious: when creating a New weapon for war, obviously ult is taken in consideration, but u ever needed to make the weapon less powerful for fit And not so broken well with ult?

This is a ask that i always wondered, and probably Wars procs could get same damage on weapons proc's at the Future If a Nerf on ult gotta be adressed.


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[Hexame]

The Warrior Ultimate doesn't need any changes at all.

The Nep Sword and Kraken Sword comparison was clearly known for sometime now, but with the adjustments that happened today, it does seem much better.

The Nep Sword just needs a nerf on the damage that the "Eel Shocks" are doing just so it's not dominating the Arcane Type Kraken Sword.

This way there will be a clear power comparison on what "Mythic Tier" equipment should be while being compared next to the "Arcane Tier" equipment such as the Kraken Sword

[Itzmemohsin]

The Warrior Ultimate doesn't need any changes at all.

The Nep Sword and Kraken Sword comparison was clearly known for sometime now, but with the adjustments that happened today, it does seem much better.

The Nep Sword just needs a nerf on the damage that the "Eel Shocks" are doing just so it's not dominating the Arcane Type Kraken Sword.

This way there will be a clear power comparison on what "Mythic Tier" equipment should be while being compared next to the "Arcane Tier" equipment such as the Kraken Sword

@Cinco

Do rarities even make any sense , just look at the pets some mythics are better than arcanes or heroics and vice versa , it's very messed up , that needs a more urgent fix. Rarities make literally no sense in the pets section atleast that's what I fell. And in overall the pets section is pretty messed up and confusing.

[umarrahim]

The Warrior Ultimate doesn't need any changes at all.

The Nep Sword and Kraken Sword comparison was clearly known for sometime now, but with the adjustments that happened today, it does seem much better.

The Nep Sword just needs a nerf on the damage that the "Eel Shocks" are doing just so it's not dominating the Arcane Type Kraken Sword.

This way there will be a clear power comparison on what "Mythic Tier" equipment should be while being compared next to the "Arcane Tier" equipment such as the Kraken Sword

If Neptaris + Ult can nuke bosses, what's the point of buying Kraken Sword? See the point?

You don't understand the problem with 6x STR ult. Right now the average warr has 2k STR, 6x that is 12k which is an increase of 10k STR correct?

Imagine in the future average Warr has 5k STR, 6x that is 30k STR. That's a 25k extra STR!

And when the average STR is 10k, 6x that is 60k, that's a 50k extra STR from the ultimate.

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[snakeeyes]

If Neptaris + Ult can nuke bosses, what's the point of buying Kraken Sword? See the point?

You don't understand the problem with 6x STR ult. Right now the average warr has 2k STR, 6x that is 12k which is an increase of 10k STR correct?

Imagine in the future average Warr has 5k STR, 6x that is 30k STR. That's a 25k extra STR!

And when the average STR is 10k, 6x that is 60k, that's a 50k extra STR from the ultimate.

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Now kraken sword is much better because of buffs see the difference, short cd, aoe damage on charge, 3 enemy hit by proc,

[mikesito]

Nerf kraken gun

[Perw]

are mage and rog weapons going to get a nerf? they not very good now, i dont want to imagine if they get nerfed

[Hexame]

If Neptaris + Ult can nuke bosses, what's the point of buying Kraken Sword? See the point?

You don't understand the problem with 6x STR ult. Right now the average warr has 2k STR, 6x that is 12k which is an increase of 10k STR correct?

Imagine in the future average Warr has 5k STR, 6x that is 30k STR. That's a 25k extra STR!

And when the average STR is 10k, 6x that is 60k, that's a 50k extra STR from the ultimate.

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This Ultimate was designed for a very long time now and I'm wondering why all of a sudden this Ultimate needs rework all of a sudden now.

I don't think STS will release a boss in the future that will get nuked so easily by a mere Warrior's Ultimate. I know players that finished up the entire Zodias Campaign before the Level 81 Arcane equipment even released and they haven't complained about Warrior's Ultimate at all

This Ultimate Skill is used in PvE and only in PvE where your working together with other players. Players should be glad a Warrior can do that and help out in damaging bosses. Your in PvE and your able to work together with that warrior.

This Ultimate Skill provides Hardcore Mode Warriors the damage they need to keep going and finishing up difficult maps in Hardcore Mode as well.

I'd agree that this Ultimate is really good compared to the other class Ultimates. I get what your trying to say but I don't think it really needs to be so nerfed to the point that us warriors feel like we just lost our best ultimate. I just don't think there needs to be any changes on this Ultimate since your going to be working with a warrior in a map eventually.

[Perw]

quick maths

[spityful17]

If Neptaris + Ult can nuke bosses, what's the point of buying Kraken Sword? See the point?

You don't understand the problem with 6x STR ult. Right now the average warr has 2k STR, 6x that is 12k which is an increase of 10k STR correct?

Imagine in the future average Warr has 5k STR, 6x that is 30k STR. That's a 25k extra STR!

And when the average STR is 10k, 6x that is 60k, that's a 50k extra STR from the ultimate.

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Fyi Warriors can't use ult all the time before we can use ult the boss is already dead killed by mage or rogue especially on portal zone


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[Thewolfbull]

Even without the Ultimate we've got a balance problem with the Mythic / Arcane Warrior weapons' damage output.

Warrior Ultimate makes the problem a lot worse - and I'm not opposed to reviewing it.

If you want to make kraken sword more useful make it able to do good damage without needing ultimate. Right now on portal bosses like ekenta and rahabkor a good mage/rogue party with kraken gear can do elite ekenta in 20-30 seconds which isn't enough time for ultimate to be ready so warrior doesn't do much there.

[will0]

Kraken gun is not aiming the boss proper on charge please take a look !

[Taughtmage]

In the interest of transparency: I am posting to announce that the Zodias Mythic weapons will very likely be nerfed in the near future.
For instance: the case has been made very clearly that proper use of the Neptaris sword makes it far better than its Arcane counterpart.

Zodias' power comes from a time when the activation methods were deemed too burdensome by the community. Now that players are in full command of these powers it is time to step back and rebalance.

We all agree neptaris should be worse than the kraken sword. That being said, right now kraken sword is the warriors only source of damage in elite zodias maps (without ultimate). This makes it very hard for warriors to get into good parties for gold farming (especially since the elite zodias maps don’t need tanking to be done). A group of 2-4 mages/rogues with kraken items can easily clear these maps, especially since so much of the damage is reflection / % of health based). This lack of ability for wars to deal good damage, especially to elite zodias bosses, creates an environment where only mages/rogues get invited to good parties for gold farming. This creates a distinct disadvantage and lack of playability for the warrior class at this point. Currently, all we have (since krak sword damage isnt enough), is neptaris. Neptaris is very hard to use in order to make it “op”. You need damage elixirs, haste pets, hotbars for switching to proc nept, then armor, then nept again. All this while mages and rouges just charge attack and the health of all bosses in the game disappear. Lot of words but basically, I think a neptaris nerf is uncalled for unless it comes with a kraken sword boss damage buff. There are a lot of ways you can make the kraken sword relevant in endgame, maybe an idea like a “kraken set bonus” that is specific to each class. Maybe like warriors get 50% boss damage in zodias maps. Or maybe make the bonuses that come from ring/belt/arti more helpfully for warrior when it comes to killing bosses. Maybe give the krak sword 1 main lightning strikes that does way more damage than the other few, smaller lightning strikes. I like the idea of “charging the sword procs 1 large lightning strike that deals massive single target damage” and “basic uncharged sword swipes have a chance to proc something similar to the AoE smaller lightning chains.” A lot of typing but i hope you consider my ideas. Thanks.


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[umarrahim]

If you want to make kraken sword more useful make it able to do good damage without needing ultimate. Right now on portal bosses like ekenta and rahabkor a good mage/rogue party with kraken gear can do elite ekenta in 20-30 seconds which isn't enough time for ultimate to be ready so warrior doesn't do much there.

This is what I suggested. Increase the damage on Kraken Sword, in return Nerf the Warrior 6x STR ultimate.

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[Taughtmage]

2nd line fix *That being said, the only source of damage in elite zodias maps is neptaris, not kraken.

[Vvaffe]

We all agree neptaris should be worse than the kraken sword. That being said, right now kraken sword is the warriors only source of damage in elite zodias maps (without ultimate). This makes it very hard for warriors to get into good parties for gold farming (especially since the elite zodias maps don’t need tanking to be done). A group of 2-4 mages/rogues with kraken items can easily clear these maps, especially since so much of the damage is reflection / % of health based). This lack of ability for wars to deal good damage, especially to elite zodias bosses, creates an environment where only mages/rogues get invited to good parties for gold farming. This creates a distinct disadvantage and lack of playability for the warrior class at this point. Currently, all we have (since krak sword damage isnt enough), is neptaris. Neptaris is very hard to use in order to make it “op”. You need damage elixirs, haste pets, hotbars for switching to proc nept, then armor, then nept again. All this while mages and rouges just charge attack and the health of all bosses in the game disappear. Lot of words but basically, I think a neptaris nerf is uncalled for unless it comes with a kraken sword boss damage buff. There are a lot of ways you can make the kraken sword relevant in endgame, maybe an idea like a “kraken set bonus” that is specific to each class. Maybe like warriors get 50% boss damage in zodias maps. Or maybe make the bonuses that come from ring/belt/arti more helpfully for warrior when it comes to killing bosses. Maybe give the krak sword 1 main lightning strikes that does way more damage than the other few, smaller lightning strikes. I like the idea of “charging the sword procs 1 large lightning strike that deals massive single target damage” and “basic uncharged sword swipes have a chance to proc something similar to the AoE smaller lightning chains.” A lot of typing but i hope you consider my ideas. Thanks.


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well said. thumbs up. 100% agreeing to that one. Thanks for your comment!


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[Cinco]

What an excellent discussion! Congratulations on a thoroughly well-considered, respectful and insightful conversation. Here are my takeaways:

1. You've enlightened me to the fact that there are many important economic and social dimensions that must be considered before making adjustments to any of the Zodias Mythic weaponry. Extreme care must be taken with any 'nerfs' so that we don't disenfranchise players (or exacerbate existing rivalries that are causing bad player friction).

2. Zodias Mythic weapons + Kraken Battle Shell armor can align to be super OP. However this alignment is unreliable and strategically inferior to the Zodias Kraken Battle weapons' 100% proc on charge after cool-down. TBH I'm rather pleased that the Mythics have continued to be relevant so long after their release.

3. The most popular suggestion (and indeed the most fun) is to crank up the damage on the Kraken Battle Sword, making the weapon's initial hit much more powerful. The gap in DPS and Max Damage for Zodias 'Boss Killer' weapons for Rogues and Sorcerers is rather narrow. On the other hand, the gap between Warriors and Rogues and Sorcerers is rather large so there is room to buff Kraken Battle Sword damage without overtaking either of the other Class' gear (even with Rage Ultimate activated).

So TLDR; a modest Kraken Battle Sword damage buff will happen soon. Changes to Mythic 81 Weapons are not going to happen anytime soon. And assuming that everything goes well with our development schedule, Ultimate Skills for all Classes will be reviewed as part of our overall Class Skill Rework later this year.

Best wishes!

[Vvaffe]

What an excellent discussion! Congratulations on a thoroughly well-considered, respectful and insightful conversation. Here are my takeaways:

1. You've enlightened me to the fact that there are many important economic and social dimensions that must be considered before making adjustments to any of the Zodias Mythic weaponry. Extreme care must be taken with any 'nerfs' so that we don't disenfranchise players (or exacerbate existing rivalries that are causing bad player friction).

2. Zodias Mythic weapons + Kraken Battle Shell armor can align to be super OP. However this alignment is unreliable and strategically inferior to the Zodias Kraken Battle weapons' 100% proc on charge after cool-down. TBH I'm rather pleased that the Mythics have continued to be relevant so long after their release.

3. The most popular suggestion (and indeed the most fun) is to crank up the damage on the Kraken Battle Sword, making the weapon's initial hit much more powerful. The gap in DPS and Max Damage for Zodias 'Boss Killer' weapons for Rogues and Sorcerers is rather narrow. On the other hand, the gap between Warriors and Rogues and Sorcerers is rather large so there is room to buff Kraken Battle Sword damage without overtaking either of the other Class' gear (even with Rage Ultimate activated).

So TLDR; a modest Kraken Battle Sword damage buff will happen soon. Changes to Mythic 81 Weapons are not going to happen anytime soon. And assuming that everything goes well with our development schedule, Ultimate Skills for all Classes will be reviewed as part of our overall Class Skill Rework later this year.

Best wishes!

thanks!


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